>>13881 With how unfinished and unstable Infinity Engine is, it's unsuited for full fangame development. We could be halfway through development, then realize that what we want to accomplish is completely impossible without heavy modification, if not a complete rewrite. I would focus on using BE for now, since SS68 is available to help if need be, and if Project Hero is ever released, it would be an easier porting process since they're both in Unity. But that being said, I think we need to go at this with a bit of professionalism. That's where many fangames fail. We need a clear consensus on the direction, an easy-to-understand production plan that details everything we need to do, a schedule with an estimate of how long each task would take, and a final pitch for the game. Then we need to hire people who can mesh with the development team and are willing to work as volunteers, and in the hiring process, we need people to submit resumes and to be interviewed. THEN, once all that is done, we work behind closed doors and communicate through either Discord or some other group chat/file sharing method. It's boring, and it sucks, but that's how shit gets done.

>>13884 Fair enough, then. I'm all for the ideas mentioned earlier (like in >>13849 >>13853 & >>13854), but I dunno if we can say that's the main direction this thing will head in. Given that this is just the first thread, there's a chance other folks may have an idea of their own that can either help flesh out what was already suggested or may be something entirely different.

Typical. 18 posts in the same day at the start, now there's nothing.

>>13912 Considering there's been a slowdown in posts here over the last few days in general, I'm not too surprised. I blame the shit weather hitting a lot of the US lately That being said, I'm gonna look at some of the fan engines available, to see what would be best for this project & think about who can we reach out for help here. Despite this being a giant mountain to climb, that whole Google doc has gotten me excited about this thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0cD4VjKqY0 >>13849 >>13913 I've been thinking about that one scene, that cinematic moment of Sonic jumping up several falling rocks before drilling through a big one.. At the time I wrote that, I had no idea of how to tackle it, but after pondering for a while, I thought of a solution: "Reaction Commands". If you've never played Kingdom Hearts 2, basically the way they work is this: an enemy, boss or event will prompt you to press Triangle, then a cinematic scene plays out where you press Triangle at the right moments to do something that either stuns the boss or otherwise makes your life easier. So, QTEs. But the difference between these and normal QTEs is that most of the time, they only result in damage upon failing (not instant death), there's only one button for you to worry about, and most importantly (outside a couple of bosses): they are entirely optional. So let's say you're playing the hypothetical Sonic CD intro level: you start running towards or up the mountain, and you can see the rocks coming down. A prompt for the designated "action" button comes up, hovering over one of them. You have two options: either you press it and go into a "reaction" scene where Sonic does pic related with the right timing, or you can just dodge them. This could not only easily tie into a trick system where success grants you style points, but also create risk vs. reward: dodging the rocks would be more dangerous, but if successful, would be a faster way of getting to the peak and beating the level, since you skip the cutscene. In addition, it would be a way to have scripted sequences within a level WITHOUT having to take control away from the player. We don't want to completely remove scripted sequences, because that would be boring and remove a lot of character from levels, but we also don't want anything that cannot either be skipped or sped up, because that just wouldn't be right for a game (and franchise) that encourages speedrunning. If you want to see these sequences, you can, but the player who's replaying the level and trying to beat their best time or get a higher score might not want to.

>>13918 >pic related Infinichan is getting throttled to hell and back apparently, so it won't let me upload the gif. But, you know the one.

>>13918 >>13919 That's actually a pretty sweet idea. The biggest problem with QTEs is the lack of variety they tend to have but something like this would go a long way to solving that issue, same with the issue of automation.

>>13869 Sorry I took so long with this, but I was caught up with other things. But here's a proof of concept of what the control scheme layout would be, and I just wanted to see if this was clear enough for me to continue with. I wanted to add one more example, pulling the analog stick back = braking, but I ran out of time for today. Let me know what you think.

>>13951 It's cool anon, I understand. Control template looks good too, so if you have anymore ideas on controls be sure to show us what you got!

>>13951 If you look at driving games, brake would be on L2, and that'd also be how you drift. So I think that'd be a much more sensible control scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AK3n-srj5E >>13967 I was originally going to do this like that but was following the video's linked early. I was also trying this out on my controller, and I actually think R2 does feel more natural since you wouldn't have to put a lot of focus on one hand and get hand cramps. I'd also view this less like a racing game, which I feel is the flaw in Sonic Boosting titles. This was meant to tier Sonic's speed in a way you can have full control when you're not op'ing to go fast, and when you want to, use just one more other button to do so based on how hard you hold down the trigger. Basically, R2 would be a most subtle yet concentrated push instead of an always helded down one. This is why drifting I think should just stick to the analog stick, when R2 is held, instead of yet another button to use it like in the Boost games. Basically, I'm taking another page for the gameplay here from ShayMay's video. He made a good point that Sonic really doesn't need more than just one button to achieve doing the basic movements. Two is enough to get the point across in this game the other anon wanted geared towards a closer to the CD opening prespective. It is, however, just a templete, and everything is likely to change. I'd be totally up to trying something else for this project, but until then, I'm just taking examples from what get's brought up, and adding a bit of ShayMay's ideas to bounce off of (no pun intended) (52:31)

>>13971 The problem I have with that philosophy is that under pressure and stress from an action game, players are going to be aggressive on the analog stick. In your hypothetical control setup, going hard left or right would make them drift while sprinting, but I would expect players don't want to accidentally drift when they just want to steer themselves left or right, and they won't want to have to focus on how sensitive they are on the analog stick while dodging obstacles. You should be able to choose between drifting and steering when controlling Sonic at high speeds, much like the boost games already do. And while I understand and respect ShayMay's videos and philosophy (and agree with him on quite a few things) I think the idea of using only one button for movement, in a game like this, is a fool's errand. For a slow, 2D, momentum-based platformer like Sonic Mania it works, but for a more advanced 3D game that lets Sonic do all kinds of things, it would only (ironically) make things more complicated by going against what players expect, and keep the skill ceiling overly low for players used to more complex mechanics. If there is an accelerator, brake and drifting mechanic in your game, it should take notes from games that already have those, rather than try to force "Sonic tradition" into it. I also don't understand what you mean by R2 not needing to be held down to accelerate/boost. I thought we agreed that controlling Sonic at extreme speeds should not fall to the analog stick. Although, I will agree that the controls should not be TOO complicated. Here's my take. Repost after I messed up the last image. I'm tired, damn it.

>>13977 Well, the idea I had was, the further you move from going forward on the analog stick, to the left or right, would indicate the angle at which you're turning. It's basically just turning on a steeper angle the more you're heading directly left on the stick or right on the stick. It wasn't meant to be binary, that's kinda what I wanted to emulate with the drawing of Sonic skidding on a curve instead of directly on brake like in the classic games. I think a better visual is kinda how it worked in Sonic Colors almost exactly, just with more direction influence the further to the left/right you are on the stick, while the further you pull back from your headed direction, you slow down and or else, stop. I think one of the biggest problems with just slapping Need for Speed styled gameplay would be because Sonic isn't a car on a visual standpoint. Cars are far wider and bigger, and when they move, it's clear you're basically a box on ice controls, you drift because you're trying to turn with wheels skidding on the ground. With Sonic, his feet should otherwise, just adjust just like in the example the others used about Sonic CD. But, of course, humans cannot react that quickly with any control scheme, so, this idea where drifting is controlled more based on angle of movement instead of button action with preset movement, would present better control between subtle use and more considerate use. >I also don't understand what you mean by R2 not needing to be held down to accelerate/boost. No, the trigger was meant to initiate running state, but based on how hard you push it down, the faster your movement is released, kinda like how the video >>13865 used it but instead of like a car, accelerating based on how long you hold it down, it works on pressure sensitivity like Smash Bros. shields do. Press it all the way down instantly acts like boosting does already in Modern Sonic games. Easing down on it tiers the speed according.

>>13977 And, assuming if your image is your take, do we really need a game were Sonic can both roll and slide? They basically function nearly identically, given what I experienced in Generations. I even made a clip showcasing this a while back ago. And the reaction button (or what I think it's called, contact sensitive command ala Conker) seems to be a bit, well, reactionary for just the command action. When are tricks initiated? Just being in the air? Or when you hit those special dash pads? And would parkouring being used when Sonic touches a wall and initiate it, or when he's already airborne? And what's stopping the Homing attach being on this button, if it is, not getting conflicted with some other command action overriding it being too close to Sonic, aka, like in SA2? That was one of the biggest problems in that game, accidentally using a move you didn't expect to use. The idea is nice, but it should be clear exactly what you are going to do when pressing any button on the control. Oh, and L1. I like the idea Sonic can store power ups instead of having to be forced into using it when it's found, but, how does this work? Like, Super Mario World? I'd have to imagine it has to be used for an item you know you're going to be using. Something I wanted to be clarified with so far seeing this.

>>13979 >do we really need a game were Sonic can both roll and slide? They basically function nearly identically, given what I experienced in Generations. The roll is necessary (otherwise, Sonic being a hedgehog is meaningless and we want to roll down hills to gain momentum) but the slide looks a hell of a lot more stylish, plus it could be used for getting through narrow gaps when a roll simply wouldn't cut it. In retrospect, it was foolish to not allow the player to roll while sprinting, but my concern is that would be too broken and still let the player be invincible, just with more button presses. >When are tricks initiated? Just being in the air? Or when you hit those special dash pads? Tricks would be whenever the player is airborne from either a special ramp (like in Sonic Rush) launching up from a half-pipe, hanging on a half-pipe ledge, grinding on a rail, or airborne from jumping off a rail. I was thinking like Tony Hawk, where you needed a fair amount of airtime to pull tricks off, otherwise you crash, but you could do them anytime you wanted. >And would parkouring being used when Sonic touches a wall and initiate it, or when he's already airborne? A particle effect (like sparkles) would indicate parkour-friendly terrain, such as spired rocks, tree branches or posts that can be spun around. When Sonic is close enough to said particles, hitting the parkour button would lock him to it. >And what's stopping the Homing attack being on this button, if it is, not getting conflicted with some other command action overriding it being too close to Sonic, aka, like in SA2? Simple: removing the homing attack altogether. There's a reason I didn't list it. If we slow Sonic's base non-sprinting movement down to your average platformer, it wouldn't be necessary. And if you are sprinting, it would kill your momentum, so we want to avoid that. Even if we decide to implement it, such a thing would be mapped to the Jump button, like it always has been. >I like the idea Sonic can store power ups instead of having to be forced into using it when it's found, but, how does this work? Like, Super Mario World? I'd have to imagine it has to be used for an item you know you're going to be using. Sonic Generations has a system where you can equip a powerup before entering a stage, and use it whenever you want. It could also work like Super Mario World, yes. If you pick up an electric shield when you have a fire shield equipped, that fire shield goes into storage and you can swap between the two.

So, does anybody have any other ideas/concepts for Sonic's control scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RktX4lbe_g4 >>14031

>>14039 Pfft. Well if that's the case, I suppose the ideas/concepts already posted can just be ironed out & finalized, if this thing is actually gonna go somewhere.

>>14042 Control schemes are not just posted and if nobody else has a better idea, they go with that. Control schemes can entirely change or mechanics can be dropped. When Nintendo was making Mario 64, they just had Mario run around in a basic environment and try to catch a rabbit. They tweaked the controls and such until everything felt fun and fluid. I think part of the reason this thread is dying is because people are slowly realizing the gravity of this undertaking and like always, nobody wants to do it. There's only two people here now.

>>14057 >people are slowly realizing the gravity of this undertaking and like always, nobody wants to do it. Well, there's also the problem that no one here (afaik) has much experience with coding, which is necessary for a project like this. The ideas are great, but if we don't have anybody to actually implement them in a fan engine, we're pretty much fucked.

>>14058 But the idea was we would try and convince Sonic fans we knew could code to be a part of it. Like "I'm assembling a team."

>>14059 Well, has anyone reached out to people who knows how to code? I'd love to help out on this part myself, but a lot of the names that comes to mind for me are already working on their own fan-projects.

>>14060 …We could ask SS68? But I'm not sure he'd enjoy being asked to do the heavy lifting after making the BE specifically so other people could take the mantle.

>>14067 I'm sure he'd be understanding to help lend his knowledge of that stuff, given the lack of experience a lot of us would have on this project.

>>14057 >I think part of the reason this thread is dying is because people are slowly realizing the gravity of this undertaking and like always, nobody wants to do it. If I'm going to project, the problem is that the consensus is basically "let's reinvent Sonic the Hedgehog" Can't we just stick to what is already liked and just make it better where it lacks? Everyone can disagree all we want, but classic, Adventure (Sonic) and Boost gameplay has universal appeal to many, many people. Just pick one of the 3, make it good, and since people get triggered by the open world meme, just make a level to prove yourself first before releasing a demo. The problem with Sonicfags is that none of them, even SEGA, can just cope with one way to play Sonic the Hedgehog. That's why Mario gets no shit, he's simple and it works.

>>14069 >Can't we just stick to what is already liked and just make it better where it lacks? But that's what we've already suggested. We're not looking to reinvent Sonic, we're taking the Boost gameplay and fixing the problems that it has. Sometimes "making it better" requires changing a lot of the bullshit Sonic has had over the years. Just removing dash panels is going to make it seem like a reinvention, because that alone changes the entire pacing and focus of the game. Also, fangames come and go. And a lot of them do the same damn thing. If /fast/'s fangame is going to stand out from the crowd then yes, it does need to do something different. I'm not going to spend months if not years of my life working on something for 15 minutes of fame, maybe a showcase by a cuck e-celeb, and then nothing. I want people to notice this. I want SEGA to notice this.

>>14071 I guess you have a point. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEi-dQfkqDs Thoughts? Since this is based on SA2, would it be easier making levels like in SA2, or porting existing ones to see how accurate it is?

>>14090 Looks promising, but I'm curious as to how it'd feel/play in a setting more akin to a full-length level.

>>14091 That's why I'd wish this was open source so porting old SA1/2 levels could be added in just to test it.

>>14090 I feel dizzy.

This may sound a bit odd, but I've been thinking about testing out some of the control ideas people have posted itt in the Bumper Engine. Just to get a bit of a taste of how it'd feel in an actual fan-engine.

>>14142 Are you modding the game to the control scheme or just using the BE as is to get the sense around it?

>>14143 >>14142 That reminds me: SS68 has gone AWOL. Whatever he's doing nowadays, he's pretty much gone from Discord. I don't know of any other way to contact him outside of YT.

>>14144 I recently seen him post on the video here >>14090 so he's still around. I guess he's taking a break from Discord now?

>>14143 Mainly just using the BE to get a sense of around it. If need be, I can list down any potential problems the controls so they can be worked on. >>14144 >>14145 Hmm. If he is taking a break from Discord, i guess he can be contacted on any site he's recently used.