A giant Bump and Sage lewds folder hidden in the game's files.

>>13814 Then what would be left for the dlc? Think ahead, anon

>>13815 It's still DLC. On-disc DLC. You need to keep up with today's business trends, anon.

>>13814 Keep it fanservicy, no ecchi stuff. I'll bring some ideas later, engines we could design on using based on comfortability, and direction the game should have a focus on. See ya'll in a bit.

>>13817 Based anon, thanks. Every idea helps at this stage

>>13817 I wasn't being serious lmao

Well, I said it before on the general thread and I'll say it again, I think the gameplay should focus on momentum in a similar way Utopia does.

>>13817 You're doing God's work, anon. >>13820 Something like that could be nice, but how big do you think the levels should be? I dunno if everyone would be on-board for say, a full on open-world Sonic game but we should probably do something that would make exploring the zones fun & not have stages be a bit too narrow in level design.

Here's an excerpt from something I'm typing up that I can hopefully show to this thread when it's done. There's a lot more context to it then you probably think there is and I want to back all of this up. >Many Sonic fangames I see, such as Sonic Utopia, try to do the same thing: take the physics and momentum-based gameplay from the 2D Genesis classics (and Mania) and translate them into 3D. They do this because it seems logical, and because the Sonic Adventure games already attempt to do this to a certain extent, and they enjoy those games. >The problem I have with this setup is that it assumes that is the only way for Sonic to be able to translate to a 3D environment. Or that it is the best way. Neither Super Mario 64 nor Super Mario Odyssey attempt to recreate 2D Mario gameplay. When Mario did try to recreate it, with Super Mario 3D World, the results were less-than-impressive. Neither Mega Man, Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania, nor Prince of Persia tried to recreate their 2D adventures in their 3D outings. Those that did, such as Prince of Persia 3D, and Mega Man X7, fell completely flat. And this isn’t just because the developers were incompetent: they were trying to make a game be like something that it just wasn’t. A three-dimensional environment offers so much greater potential for gameplay than just having the ability to run in any direction you want. And you will notice that every example I just named is a platformer. Keep that in mind, and ask yourself if you would rather play the Green Hill Zone stage in Sonic Adventure 2, or Seaside Hill Modern in Sonic Generations. The “boost formula” of Sonic Unleashed came out of nowhere, and it showed that Sonic does not even need to focus on physics and momentum to create a great Sonic game that still feels like a Sonic game. >What all those examples all have in common, especially with Mario, is that instead of recreating what their franchises were, they recreate what people remember them being. They take the most memorable elements of each one and expand on them. They cut down on gamey elements and immerse the player in what it feels like to be these characters. When you play Super Mario Odyssey, you feel like you ARE Mario. When you play Ninja Gaiden Black, you feel like you ARE Ryu. When you play Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, you feel like you ARE the Prince. >And that brings us to our main topic: how can we feel like Sonic? What is it like to actually be in Sonic’s shoes, with all his abilities, in his own universe? What would someone remember Sonic being, as a child, in 1991 for the very first time? It all points to one answer: speed. >As a child, I never cared or thought about how the physics work in Sonic 1. I never cared about how the level design has so many different paths to take. I never cared about the platforming challenges across perilous pits. All of that is nice, and something Sonic should have at least to some degree, but every platformer has that today. Sonic is not special anymore when it comes to that. All I cared about back then was seeing something that, even today, isn’t like anything else in gaming: seeing a stage and its visuals blaze by you, to the point where Sonic could even outrun the camera. That’s the one aspect of Sonic that manages to stay relevant and unique among every platformer out there. >So we gotta have speed. Demon speed. Speed’s what we need. We need greasy, fast SPEED!

I'm back >>13820 As a massive fan of that, I understand many people have concerns that gameplay like that is too much for level design that wouldn't be for massive landmasses, at least in their opinion. I think there's easy solutions around that but for the sake of compromising, I'd take that gameplay style but dial back the top speed a bit, and make Sonic a bit more heavier so his speed doesn't give us massive airtime being so floaty. Otherwise, just tighten the aerial controls and it's good. Now, there's a lot of ways we could make a Sonic game, but I think to keep this project within reasonably expectations, maybe we should look at the best elements of past Sonic games we enjoyed, and see what could be used for our project, but scale it no higher than that of Mania. That way, the focus would be just to make levels that tie around a narrative of our choosing, a scope that doesn't overshoot the size for the game, and mostly, to make sure the possibility of other characters don't take away too much time away from the core experience. Whether or not we have styles like Treasure Hunting, the Werehog or the Wisps, make sure Sonic's standard style of play is the defining part of the game, and make other styles of play flow within that style instead of something that could be defined as another genre for another kind of game. So lets begin. First, what is the consensus for the direction of the game? Light story ala S3K/Heroes with a tone and art style of said games? Or something between SA1 and Unleashed? Or would you prefer ShTH and SA2/06 styled story focus? Second, what gameplay style do you most prefer? To stay consistent, we'll focus on Sonic's main styles of play. Should we go the route of the classics ala Utopia like mentioned before? Or, something more one to one to SA1/2? Or would boost gameplay be preferred? Depending on which style of play, it should define how the level design would be constructed. >Classic styled can have more open level design with wider platforms to accommodate speed, and thus, allows for exploration to follow for secret bonuses and Special stage rings. >Adventure would be more tighter in stage scale and platforming, as the controls and overall top speed isn't as high as the classics or boost, so smaller, Mario equse scaled level design would work for the style of play. Although levels should be made where there's clear direction to the goal, aka linear, since those games specialized how to play the level correctly over raw speed to the goal, some open areas for different paths to take wouldn't hurt add variety, and add to the notion, if Chao Garden were used, to help hide better animals in these places while the common animals stay on the linear path. >Boost style would be the most linear of the gameplay styles, and since the budget for an "Pixar" Sonic game wouldn't be a factor for a fan project, level detail scaled back could mean more time to add more length to the level so it wouldn't be as short as Forces. That being said, it would come down to if we can make a full 3D boost level, or op for the standard 2D/3D hybrid instead. Either way, to expand it thoroughly, making the game a challenge by making the gameplay benefit a Sonic 2 style setup (top path = fastest run, bottom path = dangerous run) could tier the boosting into a way where good use of the boosting rewards faster play, but improper use means more obstacles to face, that instead of punishing you with death, can instead be replaced with a lower section of the stage filled with enemies, and the challenge would be to get back to the topmost area of the stage. With all that, what do you think so far? I think structuring the project into these tiers first and foremost would make it clearer what engines would be best for the direction forward, and tone and style of play would let the project flow better knowing all that we are focused on doing at once, instead of brainstorming during development of the game, which would slow down the project and could make the game less focused and messy.

>>13823 >>13824 Interesting take, with some very well-thought out & solid points. When it comes to the overall direction of the game, I think a tone similar to S3K would be good. It has a story that's relatively light & easy to follow, but it also allows for more unique level-themes & the stakes of the story can be ramped up as the game goes along, allowing for a climatic finale.

>>13825 Two separate anons, anon.

>>13824 Story and tone are unimportant. Let's not think about that for now. Right now we need to focus on the gameplay. I know it's fun to brainstorm story, tone, music, art style and such, but right now we need to get Sonic into a 3D environment and figure out his control and his gameplay. The greatest minds at Nintendo and (old) Valve make everything revolve around the gameplay, not the other way around. The story and tone can be molded to fit any design we put forth and since it's a Sonic game, that should be fairly easy.

>>13826 Oh. Nvm then. >>13828 Fair point. Personally speaking if I were to choose between what style of gameplay I'd prefer to see in this Sonic project like in >>13824's post, I see a lot of potential in shooting for something more akin to the Classic-styled type of gameplay can work. Boost, Classic & Adventure all have elements to them that I find appealing, but the Classic style would provide a solid amount of variety in how the level can be completed, giving good focus to fast gameplay, while keeping things a bit open so the player can explore the stage for bonuses & can take different paths to the goal ring.

>>13828 That's true, but keep in mind games like Mario that has his world constucted not for the idea that Peach being captured by Bowser, really matter in the end because nothing will happen to her if Mario doesn't save her fast enough, or TF2 because the focus is in the name, TEAM play is how TF2 work well when in focus. Sonic however, has always had a reason for his madness.When speaking from a non Sonic fan (not from malice) persective; why would I want to play a Sonic game for? Speed is the common answer, but there's many other games that can do the same now. Freedom Planet, Spark, etc. What makes Sonic work is the setting of Sonic itself. Personally, I wanna play a Sonic game with the idea that he's doing what he does because he wants to protect the world he lives in. Why live in a world where I can go fast, if all of my friends and the wildlife gets corrupted and ruled by Doctor Eggman? That's why I like S3K over 2 so much despite 2 having the better looking color tones and such, because the connected locations made the game feel grand and adventuous simply because I was going to place to place, fixing the problems Eggman was causing. When you have contrained, hyperspace levels like Mario, it makes the world feel artificle. Tbh, you're right that his gameplay has to be the prime focus so playing the game actually feels fun. But like what others say about Utopia (despite it not being the final product), without good level design, the physics mean nothing. I understand this from a different perspective, that without a world Sonic lives in that feels like a place not as a video game, but and breathing environment, it makes me want to continue playing the game. At most, whatever gameplay style we settle on, it has to tie with the idea playing the game has a perpose instead of just being "video game levels in a vacuum". I personally believe this was the biggest fault to Sonic Forces. The idea of Eggman winning has been something many fans apparently wanted for years, but it failed to work because, imo, the aftermath of playing through it never impacted the state of the game. The overworld screen "implies" Sonic and friends are stopping Eggman's army, but the levels never change to refect this. Even Generations made this distinction, that your actions mattered.

>>13823 The thing is, raw speed is boost gameplay, which yes, might be something only sonic does, but it usually makes for linear levels with more style than substance. Blasting through a stage hinders exploration, and boosting through with only the push of a button takes out all of the thrill of running fast, since there's no effort in reaching such velocity. >>13824 I love the momentum based Utopia gameplay, but there's always a problem with 3D sonic games: The most dangerous hazards are usually the way a stage is designed (say bottomless pits, spikes, glitches) and not the actual enemies. I think this issue could be tackled in a more effective way if the gameplay style is a classic/adventure one (Bumper engine, for example)

>>13831 >video game levels in a vacuum That's how I've been feeling about the games for a while and it's been bothering me since. They started feeling more like map packs than full games, it makes them feel super cheap, disconnected and empty.

>>13833 >The thing is, raw speed is boost gameplay, which yes, might be something only sonic does, but it usually makes for linear levels with more style than substance. Blasting through a stage hinders exploration, and boosting through with only the push of a button takes out all of the thrill of running fast, since there's no effort in reaching such velocity. Trust me, I've already thought of this problem and how to handle it. I love the boost formula but it has serious flaws, and I'm going to address them. I'm just finishing up the second section, which addresses the goal of ultimately feeling like Sonic.

>>13823 >>13833 >>13846 The next segment is complete. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jfquoUXoBDncOfWT8fpSuDRwlyAnUV1F963L23QUKKg/edit?usp=sharing I briefly go into the issues with the boost formula, but mostly focus on the Sonic CD intro, how that can used as a tech demo, and how important it is to actually feel like Sonic.

>>13849 Great write-up, dude. I will admit that despite the personal preferences I have, your segment does provide a great argument on using the CD intro to capture the feeling of being Sonic. Big question, though: What would be the best engine to tackle something like this?

>>13850 If it ever gets released, the Hero engine looks amazing.

>>13849 >Vertical Slice Hi ArtsyOmni But for real, I like this rundown (no pun intended). It highlights a lot of elements that, when compared to Boost and how close it has reached at being like the CD opening, but still has its shortcomings, it's addressed on which direction can be made into making a better example to really realize a proper Sonic experience. Personally, I like it, and after reading this, I actually came up with ideas to rectify all the little nuances to make what you've documented possible in a gaming environment. I just woke up so I'm half brain dead atm so apologies for any weird typing. But as I see it, if we wanted to simulate the ability to hit a high speed on a dime like in the CD opening without a buildup to do so like in the classic games, but not to the point it's trivialized to its extreme with a press of a button, here's my answer: "Why not just map your speed to the trigger button instead of a standard button press?" That way, instead of hitting top speed at a finite rate (because boost depletes over time), putting it on the left trigger allow for a range of speed under full control . Think of Smash Bros when using your shield. The harder you hold down on the trigger, the stronger your shield bubble becomes. We do the same for Sonic's running speed, the tighter the press, the faster Sonic can go. Hit the trigger all the way down as fast as possible, and you hit top speed instantly like with boosting, like in the CD opening, BUT, you can always choose HOW fast you go if you choose to hold it down less. It's like the running option in Lost World but less binary. His analog control still works as normal, which should bring him up to a average jog like the classics, but now, you can tier how much faster you move with the left trigger, instead of a button press. This would also, imo, give no need for things like a boost gauge, or something that has bugged me even for the classic era, the speed shoes. I find this power up extremely outdated on two fronts; having a power up that's temporary that can only be capitalized based on where you find it rather than where you choose to use it, and the idea of speed not under the control you wish with level design not exactly tested for speed not normally present during certain locations on the level, both 2D and 3D. So I'd remove these from the game entirely. Invincibility can still exist, but I'm open to what could be done with it, as it shares similar issues with the speed shoes, a powerup you're forced to use where you find it, rather, when to use it. Now, to go into another detail in your document that I actually liked that someone else thought about, bouncing off of walls. I personally found this odd how it was never ever done in 3D Sonic games at all, and this wasn't even thinking in regards to the CD opening either. To me, Adventure era had the problem of sticking to walls because of the outdated collision engine, which lead to a lot of e-celebs falling (no pun intended again) for the glitches the game faced and thus, demeaned the game for it. However in the boost era, they seemed to have fixed the issue with the walls as it doesn't stop you in your tracks anymore just rubbing against them, but I always wondered wouldn't it feel better if instead, you bump off from them like a weak bumper from the classic games, just enough to design a path or a loop to have the player naturally centralize on the path instead of like in Forces, where the game actively scripts you into the middle of the road so haphazardly. 1/2

>>13853 2/2 So there is a word length cap, dammit… This goes nicely into your comparison, the spindash. The spindash, in this case, allows for more obvious and direct environmental control. Sonic, on foot, doesn't have the terrain effect him. I know this is contentious since, well, the classic games were known for this, and I myself, love the classic design to a tee. But like this anon addresses, 3D Sonic should "revolutionize" the classic experience into what the games wished they could do if it were possible back then. With physics controls both in effect when running and rolling, it made Sonic more uniformed for platforming, but not so much for achieving speed. If you wanted to go fast, you'd roll instead of run. I really like this from the aspect Sonic is, well, a Hedgehog, but there is always different ways to make the same thing work I feel. In this case, as stated before, Sonic should have full control over the environment when on foot. Maybe on steep slopes he's forced into moving like you'd expect, but it never actively lets him gain speed like the classics. Unless, he's in a ball. Spindashing will maintain its core aspect from the 90s, gaining momentum. Here this can work more in tandem for doing things with the environment, in which case, bouncing off of walls. Like in the document, Sonic can redirect himself using walls based on a angle, and this I think, can simulate the ability to make Sonic change direction on sharp turns. Hit a wall while rolling and based on the impact angle, he'd ricochet in the parallel direction. This could even replace the use of springs, or at most, the use of them for directional purposes, and maybe could be more a "Eggman" invention to slow down Sonic, or make it clearly using these lead Sonic into dangerous traps, not in the way it actively leads him into taking damage, moreso, in a area occupied by enemies. Think of that one moment in Emerald Hill with all the Coconuts in the trees, on the floating landmass. So, long post aside, I hope these ideas can add to this anon's well constructed analysis. I think making this into a game has a good foundation to start from, but the sad part I think is that this means we'd might have to make a engine up from scratch, if not, retool another engine for a liking. Don't think that's not ok to do when this was a comment practice back in the earlier days of 2D Sonic fangames, just give credit where credit is do. We should, in the end, treat this fan game as a proof of concept first more than a full fledged game. As it was said, a "Vertical Slice" if you will.

>>13849 Art. I'm not an artist, so this will be shorter than the others (and I can just paste it here). >What is reality, on Mobius? Many fans generalize Sonic as a “anthro blue hedgehog who runs fast and beats up a fat man”. And it’s funny to say that, and it is true, but people take that to mean Sonic cannot be taken seriously, it cannot have realism, and the story/tone should just be bouncing around in Ronald McDonald Land. Just because Sonic obviously can’t exist in our world doesn’t mean that either he or Mobius can’t be believable. I’ll go into this a little more in the story/tone section, but for now, I want to make it clear that even from the very beginning, Sonic Team tried to evoke the feeling of our own world within Sonic’s own. >Notice how in Green Hill, the ground looks like real ground. It isn’t flat: rather, it curves and dips with naturally-formed hills and slopes. Scrap Brain, in comparison, is entirely flat, because it’s a man-made area. Sonic games have never attempted this since, because either the technology didn’t allow for it at the time, or evoking realism was something Iizuka and his team never thought was part of Sonic’s appeal. But it absolutely is. Part of why the early Sonic games hold so much atmosphere is that we can believe that these levels exist in a real place. We can compare Sonic’s reality to our own. These are not levels suspended in hyperspace, like you see with Super Mario 3D World or Sonic Lost World. These are real places in this setting that Sonic can just travel to. They don’t exist just for the player to experience, they exist to flesh out the setting of Mobius. >The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild knows how to show a believable world. Look at those hills, those patches of flowers, the lone tree. THIS is the type of realism a grassy Sonic level deserves. >So when designing your levels, think of how these places would look in our reality before implementing them into Sonic’s own. Sure, there could be a healthy amount of color, and there could be all sorts of wacky gimmicks like pulleys and corkscrews and giant mushrooms to bounce on, but Sonic is not some Mario-type setting where the hills have eyes and the flowers bounce to the music. Sonic’s setting is our own, just with a bit more magic. A bit more neon, a bit more weird plants. >>13853 >>13854 Interesting idea for how to control your range of speed. I had a similar idea that I will write up later, in giving Sonic an accelerator similar to that of a driving game. My main concern is that I would not want Sonic to be able to hit top speed instantly. I want there to strike a balance between blasting off, but also earning your top speed by maintaining your "boost" state for an extended period. And yes: analog control should still function, but perhaps it only gives you an average jog. And I also considered that the speed cap from Sonic 1 could be implemented, where Sonic does not gain speed by running downhill in this state, and perhaps not even in boost state: you would need to go into a ball to truly take advantage of slopes.

>>13859 >Interesting idea for how to control your range of speed. I had a similar idea that I will write up later, in giving Sonic an accelerator similar to that of a driving game. My main concern is that I would not want Sonic to be able to hit top speed instantly. I want there to strike a balance between blasting off, but also earning your top speed by maintaining your "boost" state for an extended period. And yes: analog control should still function, but perhaps it only gives you an average jog. And I also considered that the speed cap from Sonic 1 could be implemented, where Sonic does not gain speed by running downhill in this state, and perhaps not even in boost state: you would need to go into a ball to truly take advantage of slopes. Glad you like the idea. In fact, another idea that just hit me to simulate the accelrator idea. Before I do, the boost state you described sounds like the one from Sonic Advance 2. I don't mind this imo, as it could tier the speeds Sonic can go into, but at the same time, I don't know exactly how this would reflect what you discribed about Sonic being able to take off when he wants to, if you're the same anon that did the document. What I just thought of if the trigger isn't how he gains higher speeds, what if this "accelerator" worked like the Mania Speical Stage one? At first, the idea it kinda works like how it does in Plus thanks to the devs forgetting to remove it, is pressing the button to boost it up a level. Maybe it would work like that in some way, or just the normal intended way, just replace blue spheres with rings to make it act closer to the likes of Advance 2.

>>13860 Not that anon, but how about the accelerator working in such a way that, the more rings you collect, the faster you can go? That way there could also be a use for all the ring collecting

>>13861 Thats kinda the idea of the Mania Plus method. Collect enough rings unlocks a state of speed you can reach. I wouldn't be to the point state 1 is really slow, something like how Mania Plus is but a bit faster for all the speed states that game was going at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab-ufSQNdEM So, what are we going to use for the engine of our game? Considering the ideas that are being brainstormed, it's likely we'd have to modify current engines out there if we would to incorporate what we wanted in game form. So far though, our options are interesting. I'm actually surprised I'm seeing custom additions to the Infinity Engine already, the camera angles seen here Granted, level design like this clearly highlights boost style play during Adventure era level design isn't all that compatible unless you scaled everything up so you wouldn't fly over all of the level easily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1XOpPoh0K8 >>13860 >I don't mind this imo, as it could tier the speeds Sonic can go into, but at the same time, I don't know exactly how this would reflect what you discribed about Sonic being able to take off when he wants to, if you're the same anon that did the document. True. It would be difficult, and I didn't consider that this boost would be more akin to Advance 2, but I guess it would be. Much of this concept was inspired by BlazeHedgehog's video on how to fix Sonic. I don't agree with everything he says, but it's worth a watch to get an understanding of why analog control might not be the best way to control Sonic. This is the man who founded SAGE, so his opinion holds a bit of merit. Basically, analog control would give you a normal platformer with tight, responsive controls: ideal for slower sections or if speed isn't completely a priority. Pressing RT would make Sonic zoom off automatically making it so you only need to steer left and right, and the longer you press it, the more speed you slowly gain over about 5 seconds until you finally reach a level comparable to the speeds seen in Unleashed boosting. And the more rings you have, the higher your acceleration and top speed, like >>13862 suggested. This wouldn't just be a small burst that slowly builds over time: Sonic would take off. He just wouldn't go to such extreme speeds immediately, giving the player more control (maybe it's only a short distance rather than miles of a stretch?). This could potentially go hand in hand with your idea of a pressure-sensitive accelerator, where if it's only held down a slight amount, acceleration and/or top speed decrease. Pressing X while in this state will give you a small burst of speed to smash through enemies with a spin attack. The player is also able to make sharp turns and/or drift in this state. Once you break, or release the gas pedal and let Sonic's speed drop to a certain threshold, normal platforming controls take over.

>>13865 Thanks for the video. I did watch it before but it didn't hurt having a refresher course. I'm going to see if I can make a diagram of the control scheme from this video and my idea, since they are borderline the same concept just with different takes on the same end point.

>>13868 Sweet. Can't wait to see it, anon!

>>13864 Right now, there's a ton of great engines that would make a great blueprint for this game, but if we're using the idea(s) posted earlier maybe Sonic Infinity or the BE can work?

>>13881 With how unfinished and unstable Infinity Engine is, it's unsuited for full fangame development. We could be halfway through development, then realize that what we want to accomplish is completely impossible without heavy modification, if not a complete rewrite. I would focus on using BE for now, since SS68 is available to help if need be, and if Project Hero is ever released, it would be an easier porting process since they're both in Unity. But that being said, I think we need to go at this with a bit of professionalism. That's where many fangames fail. We need a clear consensus on the direction, an easy-to-understand production plan that details everything we need to do, a schedule with an estimate of how long each task would take, and a final pitch for the game. Then we need to hire people who can mesh with the development team and are willing to work as volunteers, and in the hiring process, we need people to submit resumes and to be interviewed. THEN, once all that is done, we work behind closed doors and communicate through either Discord or some other group chat/file sharing method. It's boring, and it sucks, but that's how shit gets done.

>>13884 Fair enough, then. I'm all for the ideas mentioned earlier (like in >>13849 >>13853 & >>13854), but I dunno if we can say that's the main direction this thing will head in. Given that this is just the first thread, there's a chance other folks may have an idea of their own that can either help flesh out what was already suggested or may be something entirely different.

Typical. 18 posts in the same day at the start, now there's nothing.

>>13912 Considering there's been a slowdown in posts here over the last few days in general, I'm not too surprised. I blame the shit weather hitting a lot of the US lately That being said, I'm gonna look at some of the fan engines available, to see what would be best for this project & think about who can we reach out for help here. Despite this being a giant mountain to climb, that whole Google doc has gotten me excited about this thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0cD4VjKqY0 >>13849 >>13913 I've been thinking about that one scene, that cinematic moment of Sonic jumping up several falling rocks before drilling through a big one.. At the time I wrote that, I had no idea of how to tackle it, but after pondering for a while, I thought of a solution: "Reaction Commands". If you've never played Kingdom Hearts 2, basically the way they work is this: an enemy, boss or event will prompt you to press Triangle, then a cinematic scene plays out where you press Triangle at the right moments to do something that either stuns the boss or otherwise makes your life easier. So, QTEs. But the difference between these and normal QTEs is that most of the time, they only result in damage upon failing (not instant death), there's only one button for you to worry about, and most importantly (outside a couple of bosses): they are entirely optional. So let's say you're playing the hypothetical Sonic CD intro level: you start running towards or up the mountain, and you can see the rocks coming down. A prompt for the designated "action" button comes up, hovering over one of them. You have two options: either you press it and go into a "reaction" scene where Sonic does pic related with the right timing, or you can just dodge them. This could not only easily tie into a trick system where success grants you style points, but also create risk vs. reward: dodging the rocks would be more dangerous, but if successful, would be a faster way of getting to the peak and beating the level, since you skip the cutscene. In addition, it would be a way to have scripted sequences within a level WITHOUT having to take control away from the player. We don't want to completely remove scripted sequences, because that would be boring and remove a lot of character from levels, but we also don't want anything that cannot either be skipped or sped up, because that just wouldn't be right for a game (and franchise) that encourages speedrunning. If you want to see these sequences, you can, but the player who's replaying the level and trying to beat their best time or get a higher score might not want to.

>>13918 >pic related Infinichan is getting throttled to hell and back apparently, so it won't let me upload the gif. But, you know the one.

>>13918 >>13919 That's actually a pretty sweet idea. The biggest problem with QTEs is the lack of variety they tend to have but something like this would go a long way to solving that issue, same with the issue of automation.

>>13869 Sorry I took so long with this, but I was caught up with other things. But here's a proof of concept of what the control scheme layout would be, and I just wanted to see if this was clear enough for me to continue with. I wanted to add one more example, pulling the analog stick back = braking, but I ran out of time for today. Let me know what you think.

>>13951 It's cool anon, I understand. Control template looks good too, so if you have anymore ideas on controls be sure to show us what you got!

>>13951 If you look at driving games, brake would be on L2, and that'd also be how you drift. So I think that'd be a much more sensible control scheme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AK3n-srj5E >>13967 I was originally going to do this like that but was following the video's linked early. I was also trying this out on my controller, and I actually think R2 does feel more natural since you wouldn't have to put a lot of focus on one hand and get hand cramps. I'd also view this less like a racing game, which I feel is the flaw in Sonic Boosting titles. This was meant to tier Sonic's speed in a way you can have full control when you're not op'ing to go fast, and when you want to, use just one more other button to do so based on how hard you hold down the trigger. Basically, R2 would be a most subtle yet concentrated push instead of an always helded down one. This is why drifting I think should just stick to the analog stick, when R2 is held, instead of yet another button to use it like in the Boost games. Basically, I'm taking another page for the gameplay here from ShayMay's video. He made a good point that Sonic really doesn't need more than just one button to achieve doing the basic movements. Two is enough to get the point across in this game the other anon wanted geared towards a closer to the CD opening prespective. It is, however, just a templete, and everything is likely to change. I'd be totally up to trying something else for this project, but until then, I'm just taking examples from what get's brought up, and adding a bit of ShayMay's ideas to bounce off of (no pun intended) (52:31)

>>13971 The problem I have with that philosophy is that under pressure and stress from an action game, players are going to be aggressive on the analog stick. In your hypothetical control setup, going hard left or right would make them drift while sprinting, but I would expect players don't want to accidentally drift when they just want to steer themselves left or right, and they won't want to have to focus on how sensitive they are on the analog stick while dodging obstacles. You should be able to choose between drifting and steering when controlling Sonic at high speeds, much like the boost games already do. And while I understand and respect ShayMay's videos and philosophy (and agree with him on quite a few things) I think the idea of using only one button for movement, in a game like this, is a fool's errand. For a slow, 2D, momentum-based platformer like Sonic Mania it works, but for a more advanced 3D game that lets Sonic do all kinds of things, it would only (ironically) make things more complicated by going against what players expect, and keep the skill ceiling overly low for players used to more complex mechanics. If there is an accelerator, brake and drifting mechanic in your game, it should take notes from games that already have those, rather than try to force "Sonic tradition" into it. I also don't understand what you mean by R2 not needing to be held down to accelerate/boost. I thought we agreed that controlling Sonic at extreme speeds should not fall to the analog stick. Although, I will agree that the controls should not be TOO complicated. Here's my take. Repost after I messed up the last image. I'm tired, damn it.

>>13977 Well, the idea I had was, the further you move from going forward on the analog stick, to the left or right, would indicate the angle at which you're turning. It's basically just turning on a steeper angle the more you're heading directly left on the stick or right on the stick. It wasn't meant to be binary, that's kinda what I wanted to emulate with the drawing of Sonic skidding on a curve instead of directly on brake like in the classic games. I think a better visual is kinda how it worked in Sonic Colors almost exactly, just with more direction influence the further to the left/right you are on the stick, while the further you pull back from your headed direction, you slow down and or else, stop. I think one of the biggest problems with just slapping Need for Speed styled gameplay would be because Sonic isn't a car on a visual standpoint. Cars are far wider and bigger, and when they move, it's clear you're basically a box on ice controls, you drift because you're trying to turn with wheels skidding on the ground. With Sonic, his feet should otherwise, just adjust just like in the example the others used about Sonic CD. But, of course, humans cannot react that quickly with any control scheme, so, this idea where drifting is controlled more based on angle of movement instead of button action with preset movement, would present better control between subtle use and more considerate use. >I also don't understand what you mean by R2 not needing to be held down to accelerate/boost. No, the trigger was meant to initiate running state, but based on how hard you push it down, the faster your movement is released, kinda like how the video >>13865 used it but instead of like a car, accelerating based on how long you hold it down, it works on pressure sensitivity like Smash Bros. shields do. Press it all the way down instantly acts like boosting does already in Modern Sonic games. Easing down on it tiers the speed according.

>>13977 And, assuming if your image is your take, do we really need a game were Sonic can both roll and slide? They basically function nearly identically, given what I experienced in Generations. I even made a clip showcasing this a while back ago. And the reaction button (or what I think it's called, contact sensitive command ala Conker) seems to be a bit, well, reactionary for just the command action. When are tricks initiated? Just being in the air? Or when you hit those special dash pads? And would parkouring being used when Sonic touches a wall and initiate it, or when he's already airborne? And what's stopping the Homing attach being on this button, if it is, not getting conflicted with some other command action overriding it being too close to Sonic, aka, like in SA2? That was one of the biggest problems in that game, accidentally using a move you didn't expect to use. The idea is nice, but it should be clear exactly what you are going to do when pressing any button on the control. Oh, and L1. I like the idea Sonic can store power ups instead of having to be forced into using it when it's found, but, how does this work? Like, Super Mario World? I'd have to imagine it has to be used for an item you know you're going to be using. Something I wanted to be clarified with so far seeing this.

>>13979 >do we really need a game were Sonic can both roll and slide? They basically function nearly identically, given what I experienced in Generations. The roll is necessary (otherwise, Sonic being a hedgehog is meaningless and we want to roll down hills to gain momentum) but the slide looks a hell of a lot more stylish, plus it could be used for getting through narrow gaps when a roll simply wouldn't cut it. In retrospect, it was foolish to not allow the player to roll while sprinting, but my concern is that would be too broken and still let the player be invincible, just with more button presses. >When are tricks initiated? Just being in the air? Or when you hit those special dash pads? Tricks would be whenever the player is airborne from either a special ramp (like in Sonic Rush) launching up from a half-pipe, hanging on a half-pipe ledge, grinding on a rail, or airborne from jumping off a rail. I was thinking like Tony Hawk, where you needed a fair amount of airtime to pull tricks off, otherwise you crash, but you could do them anytime you wanted. >And would parkouring being used when Sonic touches a wall and initiate it, or when he's already airborne? A particle effect (like sparkles) would indicate parkour-friendly terrain, such as spired rocks, tree branches or posts that can be spun around. When Sonic is close enough to said particles, hitting the parkour button would lock him to it. >And what's stopping the Homing attack being on this button, if it is, not getting conflicted with some other command action overriding it being too close to Sonic, aka, like in SA2? Simple: removing the homing attack altogether. There's a reason I didn't list it. If we slow Sonic's base non-sprinting movement down to your average platformer, it wouldn't be necessary. And if you are sprinting, it would kill your momentum, so we want to avoid that. Even if we decide to implement it, such a thing would be mapped to the Jump button, like it always has been. >I like the idea Sonic can store power ups instead of having to be forced into using it when it's found, but, how does this work? Like, Super Mario World? I'd have to imagine it has to be used for an item you know you're going to be using. Sonic Generations has a system where you can equip a powerup before entering a stage, and use it whenever you want. It could also work like Super Mario World, yes. If you pick up an electric shield when you have a fire shield equipped, that fire shield goes into storage and you can swap between the two.

So, does anybody have any other ideas/concepts for Sonic's control scheme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RktX4lbe_g4 >>14031

>>14039 Pfft. Well if that's the case, I suppose the ideas/concepts already posted can just be ironed out & finalized, if this thing is actually gonna go somewhere.

>>14042 Control schemes are not just posted and if nobody else has a better idea, they go with that. Control schemes can entirely change or mechanics can be dropped. When Nintendo was making Mario 64, they just had Mario run around in a basic environment and try to catch a rabbit. They tweaked the controls and such until everything felt fun and fluid. I think part of the reason this thread is dying is because people are slowly realizing the gravity of this undertaking and like always, nobody wants to do it. There's only two people here now.

>>14057 >people are slowly realizing the gravity of this undertaking and like always, nobody wants to do it. Well, there's also the problem that no one here (afaik) has much experience with coding, which is necessary for a project like this. The ideas are great, but if we don't have anybody to actually implement them in a fan engine, we're pretty much fucked.

>>14058 But the idea was we would try and convince Sonic fans we knew could code to be a part of it. Like "I'm assembling a team."

>>14059 Well, has anyone reached out to people who knows how to code? I'd love to help out on this part myself, but a lot of the names that comes to mind for me are already working on their own fan-projects.

>>14060 …We could ask SS68? But I'm not sure he'd enjoy being asked to do the heavy lifting after making the BE specifically so other people could take the mantle.

>>14067 I'm sure he'd be understanding to help lend his knowledge of that stuff, given the lack of experience a lot of us would have on this project.

>>14057 >I think part of the reason this thread is dying is because people are slowly realizing the gravity of this undertaking and like always, nobody wants to do it. If I'm going to project, the problem is that the consensus is basically "let's reinvent Sonic the Hedgehog" Can't we just stick to what is already liked and just make it better where it lacks? Everyone can disagree all we want, but classic, Adventure (Sonic) and Boost gameplay has universal appeal to many, many people. Just pick one of the 3, make it good, and since people get triggered by the open world meme, just make a level to prove yourself first before releasing a demo. The problem with Sonicfags is that none of them, even SEGA, can just cope with one way to play Sonic the Hedgehog. That's why Mario gets no shit, he's simple and it works.

>>14069 >Can't we just stick to what is already liked and just make it better where it lacks? But that's what we've already suggested. We're not looking to reinvent Sonic, we're taking the Boost gameplay and fixing the problems that it has. Sometimes "making it better" requires changing a lot of the bullshit Sonic has had over the years. Just removing dash panels is going to make it seem like a reinvention, because that alone changes the entire pacing and focus of the game. Also, fangames come and go. And a lot of them do the same damn thing. If /fast/'s fangame is going to stand out from the crowd then yes, it does need to do something different. I'm not going to spend months if not years of my life working on something for 15 minutes of fame, maybe a showcase by a cuck e-celeb, and then nothing. I want people to notice this. I want SEGA to notice this.

>>14071 I guess you have a point. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEi-dQfkqDs Thoughts? Since this is based on SA2, would it be easier making levels like in SA2, or porting existing ones to see how accurate it is?

>>14090 Looks promising, but I'm curious as to how it'd feel/play in a setting more akin to a full-length level.

>>14091 That's why I'd wish this was open source so porting old SA1/2 levels could be added in just to test it.

>>14090 I feel dizzy.

This may sound a bit odd, but I've been thinking about testing out some of the control ideas people have posted itt in the Bumper Engine. Just to get a bit of a taste of how it'd feel in an actual fan-engine.

>>14142 Are you modding the game to the control scheme or just using the BE as is to get the sense around it?

>>14143 >>14142 That reminds me: SS68 has gone AWOL. Whatever he's doing nowadays, he's pretty much gone from Discord. I don't know of any other way to contact him outside of YT.

>>14144 I recently seen him post on the video here >>14090 so he's still around. I guess he's taking a break from Discord now?

>>14143 Mainly just using the BE to get a sense of around it. If need be, I can list down any potential problems the controls so they can be worked on. >>14144 >>14145 Hmm. If he is taking a break from Discord, i guess he can be contacted on any site he's recently used.