>>9068 >Has an inconsistent tone so it tries to be both srs business and wacky cartoon hijinks But when Avatar, Adventure Time, Futurama or pretty much any well-written comedic cartoons made in the 21st century do the same thing, that's ok. >who's only memorable for having Jim Cummings voice him But when Skeletor, Shredder, Megatron and King Cobra are memorable for the exact same reasons of having a memorable voice and not much else, that's ok. >Has a bloated crew of unneeded sidekicks before the games did it. Are you seriously going to tell me that the show could've been carried entirely with Sonic and Tails? Don't use AoStH as an example, because that's an episodic comedy with no ongoing plot. Or are just you one of those elitist douchebags from SonicRetro who hate any game after Sonic & Knuckles for having characters you don't like? >Rings do whatever the plot needs them to do As opposed to Chaos Emeralds doing whatever the plot needs them to do? >Hit and miss voice direction Out of all child actors for Tails, it had the only one that was decent. And as much as you might hate Urkel Sonic, it fit the character very well, and Jaleel was 15 at the time so he was able to take advantage of his child stardom. IE when he was actually a talented actor. Just admit it. You don't like SatAM because you have a hateboner for 90s American Sonic canon.

SatAM isn't bad because it's dark, or because of the Freedom Fighters, or because of Urkel Sonic. It's bad because it's boring. It has some of the worst, most dull pacing I have ever seen in any cartoon touting itself as being an action-packed adventure, especially when the main character is faster than the speed of sound.

>>9075 Well, AoSTH did have some continuity. Just very small, "blink & you'll miss it" continuity. But yeah, rewatching SatAM during the cartoon marathon did help me understand why the show has the cult following it still has. At its core it is just your basic Saturday Morning cartoon with the Sonic cast in it, but the show has a lot of charm & when they get something right, they really nail it, imo. Not perfect or anything (Season 2 had way too many filler episodes before the big finale, Dulcy a shit, some characters did jackshit for most of the series etc.), but I can't look at episodes like the first one with Uncle Chuck or the Doomsday Project & not get why people like the show. On top of that, you can really tell the people who worked on it had some fun with it. The interview Ben Hurst did shortly before he passed showed just how much he cared for the show & Jim Cummings still busts out the Robotnik voice every once & a while, which is cool to see.

>>9079 It amazes me that the same people who bitch about SatAM and wonder why anybody likes it will turn around and be pissed at Archie Comics for not giving the 3 people who liked Underground a proper conclusion to the story.

>>9075 >But when Avatar, Adventure Time, Futurama or pretty much any well-written comedic cartoons made in the 21st century do the same thing, that's ok. >Avatar after TLA Books 1-2 >Adventure Time after Pen Ward signed out >well written Pick one. >But when Skeletor, Shredder, Megatron and King Cobra are memorable for the exact same reasons of having a memorable voice and not much else, that's ok. Eggman should always be memorable. That's more or less AoStH's redeeming quality. >Are you seriously going to tell me that the show could've been carried entirely with Sonic and Tails? Don't use AoStH as an example, because that's an episodic comedy with no ongoing plot. SatAM's ongoing plot isn't good to begin with. Don't know what you're bringing up AoStH for. Nobody unironically digs anything about that show besides Robotnik and his goons. >Or are just you one of those elitist douchebags from SonicRetro who hate any game after Sonic & Knuckles for having characters you don't like? "The meany elitist keeping me down" You can stop being so triggered now. >As opposed to Chaos Emeralds doing whatever the plot needs them to do? I could point out that this show came out at a time when the Chaos Emeralds weren't near as abused as they were come 06 (time travel) but 3D Sonic's plots have been bad to meh for a long while so whatever. >Just admit it. You don't like SatAM because you have a hateboner for 90s American Sonic canon. Go watch the Nostalgia Critic. >>9095 >EVERYBODY WHO SAYS MEAN THINGS ABOUT MY SHOW IS THE SAME

>>9095 While I have my doubts that OP made this thread for the sake of good, honest discussion, I wouldn't generalize everyone like that. I've seen plenty of people who never really cared for the DiC Sonic cartoons in general. I mean personally, I wasn't a fan of Underground but I was interested in how the Archie conclusion would've gone.

>>9095 Manic is a better character than any Satam character just for the simple fact of him not being a boring goody two shoes.

Anyway I used to ~really~ dislike Satam until I watched it. >Has an inconsistent tone so it tries to be both srs business and wacky cartoon hijinks Correct, honestly the biggest flaw its the writing and the execution of its plot. It tries to stick Sonic in a world of generic funny animals who look and act like it and barely attempt to be faithful to the original material, however sadly this is a fault of all the Sonic cartoons except X. A lot of the subplots and character relationships are written stereotypically and are very rarely explored outside their archetypes at that. But, it's refreshing at the same time, especially since if you bring into account sonic characters didn't show much personality during the classic era due to it being on a 8 bit or 16-bit game and the characters, no matter how Disneyified and generic their roots are have some charisma to them. Also the world was an interesting effort, and made you excited to what would happen next. Something that pretty much doesn't exist in Boom or pretty much any Western cartoon for the past.. 10 years. Same with japanese animation since it's so damn predictable now, honestly. >Robotnik is a dull villain (complete with being a villain right out of Captain Planet) who's only memorable for having Jim Cummings voice him Won't even deny you that, a lot of people hype it up because of their childhood and nostalgia (but I was always able to detach from that so I can't really sympathize with people on that aspect much, either). I found him incredibly dull and boring. Snively and Magnus was miles better of a character. >Has a bloated crew of unneeded sidekicks before the games did it. Then do it again with that Cree Summer voiced dragon. Eh, it was alright; though what bothered me the most was like only 2 characters got to do shit and the character with the most classic sonic-y powers and design is regulated to the background and one is a coward because of the extremely archaic stereotypes as typical with Disney shit. >Rings do whatever the plot needs them to do Yup >>Hit and miss voice direction (Robotnik sounds okay enough but is too flat of a character to take advantage of Cummings' talent, Antoine is junk, Urkel Sonic, etc.) True

>>9158 The fact that most of SatAM's fans don't actually give a shit about Sonic tells me that without Sonic attached to it, it'd be a classic 90s cartoon next to Swat Kats that 90s kids praise about all the time despite it not being all that great.

>>9159 Honestly, I feel like that's a bit much. A lot of the hardcore SatAM fans don't really seem that much different from the other hardcore sections of Sonic fans, whereas they just like that material over other stuff in the franchise. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-20 years, we see the same thing from hardcore Boom fans. It's just what happens when you have a multi-media franchise that many fans came in at different times & prefer different stuff.

>>9159 >>9160 I do see a portion of Satam fans who don't give a fuck about Sonic outside Satam, though. What's funny is that "American" Sonic isn't more American than original classic Japanese Sonic, he's just more Disneyfied.

I'd be down for seeing the FF again though.. along with the other characters of the Sonic series of any media. There's no reason why we can't get this.

>>9163 >There's no reason why we can't get this. Well, there's legal reasons as to why a good portion of those characters can't come back.

>>9165 Ok the ones except the Penders ones

>>9163 Didn't IDW kind of sort of hinted at a possible return of some of them in 2019?

>>9167 Truth be told, I'm not even sure about the legality of the Fleetway cast. I don't think anyone's ever asked if SEGA owns them, or the writers of the comic during their introductions, or what. >>9168 IIRC, Ian said it's all up to SEGA

>>9169 The Fleetway cast were all based on little animal characters anyway.

>>9170 True. Worst case scenario, they can just get a redesign

I'm a fan and can agree with everyone saying it wasn't that good. I still like it far better than most animated Sonic media, solely because they actually put some effort into creating some sort of world. AoStH was literal cartoon world, Sonic X was fictional modern Japan, Boom did whatever was needed for the joke, etc. Not that those respective series were bad, but I really couldn't get into the setting since they put so little effort into creating a setting. I also agree with the poster calling out S2 for being particularly bad. Dulcy was a goddamn tumor of a character.

Can we all at least agree the comic got better over the years? I'm probably in denial, but as far as trying to make a story out of one of the most shallow franchises of all time, Archie got it closest to the status of "plausibly coherent". But I'll let you be the judge of that…

>>15193 Archie? Honestly, for a while, it was probably my favorite Sonic universe no pun intended in Sonic media, particularly reboot Archie Sonic. Pre-boot was fun too, but I just preferred the new 252 stuff more.

I liked SatAM even if I can barely remember it

>>16266 Been a long time since you saw the show?

>>15193 >I'm probably in denial, but as far as trying to make a story out of one of the most shallow franchises of all time, Archie got it closest to the status of "plausibly coherent". They should have just read the manuals, or at least actually played the games. There was always a story there and they just never gave a shit. They didn't even bother to use what elements were there since the start. It was only later, when Flynn got on board, that he slowly started to try to make it resemble the games at least a little, but now after like three reboots, they're finally fully divorced from the weird Archie original stuff, and he still can't help but focus on OCs more than characters and concepts actually from the games. Not that it isn't way, way better, but I wish they'd use the actual story from the games more. Closest it ever felt like getting to that was the Shadow Fall arc from Universe, which did a good job picking up on plot threads from Shadow the Hedgehog.

It really is a meme at this point. Any of its strong point, the comic would latter do better. Don't get why Doug Walker would say it's good.

>>9068 Can we at least agree that it's not of the same caliber as Batman: The Animated series?

Satam is really >"Princess Sally and The Fabulous Freedom Fighters! Featuring Sonic and Tails as supporting characters ala Shaggy and Scooby Doo

>>18985 Archie Sonic fixes a lot of SATAM's flaws by going through agressive trials of storytelling. Say what you will about the quality, but the comic team over the years through stuff at the ceiling to see what would stick. Turns out the cast matured in a way that was sometimes terrible, but not mundane unlike the middle of the second season of SATAM, which hit a wall hardcore

SatAM? Damn, forgot that show even existed. All I remember is that I had a huge crush on the French coyote guy as a kid and he gave me my first erection.

>>19270 Ant is kinda hot Specially the redesign

>>18985 I liked that (Franco-Canadian?) comedy cartoon, when it was replaced by SatAM on UK TV I was pissed. I hated this shit when I was about 8-9 and it's not got any better over the years. Rewatching that intro post-Gamergate revealed disturbing levels of pozz, too. Sonic is basically a getaway car, Sally is the one who does everything.

>>18985 In all fairness, while SatAM definitely centered itself around Sally more than Sonic, Sonic himself was still pretty important to the show. Hell, I'd argue the episode about him & Uncle Chuck remains one of the strongest in the entire series & his dynamic with Sally was pretty entertaining. That being said, even though the show has aged in the last 20 years & is really just an okay Saturday Morning cartoon show that followed the same path as others from that time period & the comics did a lot of its strong points better, I can't say I didn't have a fun time rewatching it during the cartoon marathons from a couple of years ago.

It's fun

>>19860 I don't know why so many guys simp for Sally, are they cucks?

>>22229 >I don't know why so many guys simp for Sally, are they cucks? Thanks to Sallyfags, even Sonic is a cuck.

>>22814 >the world's most way past cool comic! Always gets me

I liked Satam overall, but I won't deny the concept was better than the execution. Kind of like MLP years later. It was the concept of the setting and characters that really drew me in, while the show itself was...ok. >>19270 Same, but with Bunnie. I really want to stick my dick in her.

When I was a kid I loved SatAM and didn't care for Adventures. Now my opinion is the opposite. SatAM is a pretty good kids' show, but it's not one of those shows that holds up for adult viewing, which a lot of '90s cartoons did well. At the same time SatAM was out, it was competing with other kids' action shows like Batman: The Animated Series, ReBoot, and Beast Wars, which blow it away in terms of action and characters and story. ReBoot and Beast Wars also try to do some comedy, as SatAM does, and again, they're better at it. And I only list these ones because they're shows I've watched relatively recently. SatAM is not an all time great. That said, is it good when compared to more run of the mill early '90s shows like Swat Kats or Captain Planet or Mighty Max? Sure, it's definitely in league with them. And they're pretty good. They're just not all time greats. Now I think SatAM is boring and a chore to watch, but I can see why kids would like it, especially in an era when they couldn't instantly watch any cartoon ever made. But I find Adventures more entertaining. I used to think SatAM looked better because it looked all crisp and clean, and I do still like how it looks, but SatAM's animation is actually pretty good and helps its comedy. It's no Ren & Stimpy or anything, but it's decent for a comedy cartoon of its era. Again, not an all time great, but it compares well with the average competing show of its time, and its time had better shows than most times. >>9095 Because the one thing ArchieSonic was good for was making the best of stupid characters and concepts, at least once Flynn was on it. It's all Flynn is good for, really. It would have been neat to get what probably would have been a loving and respectful, but actually well made (unlike the show) finale to Underground. Underground sucks, but they made a finale, and it would be cool to see it. >>9163 As much as I now strongly prefer the games' canon over SatAM and Archie, I do think it would be cool to include the SatAM characters as tertiary characters who guest star every now and then. This is what should have happened after the Super Genesis Wave, instead of keeping them as main characters over more important characters from the games. But if Mighty and Ray can show up every now and then, then it would be cool to have the SatAM characters operating in their own corner of the universe. They shouldn't be main characters, but if they show up to guest star every now and then, and appear in big massive climactic brawls, then that would be cool. But since they were used so badly in the comics for so long, I don't see Sega ever allowing this. And I don't blame them, either. >>19861 >Hell, I'd argue the episode about him & Uncle Chuck remains one of the strongest in the entire series Yeah, because it was one of the few where Sonic was actually the main character and not just a plot device. All that said, I'm a little conflicted, because the games basically use Sonic as a plot device frequently as well, because he's based on generic shounen heroes like Goku, who are frequently used as plot devices. And the best parts of Dragon Ball Z are when Goku is out of commission and Krillin and Bulma and Gohan are the real main characters, waiting for Goku to show up as a plot device that automatically beats the bad guy. And Sally is not unlike Bulma. Tails is not unlike Gohan. But then I guess it just brings us back to the point that, while SatAM is a good show, it's not an all time great. Dragon Ball Z is. It's not a fair comparison. And if you don't like Dragon Ball Z, then just consider that a more scathing criticism of SatAM, that it has even worse characterization and plotting than Dragon Ball Z. >>24454 Bunnie is actually a good concept for a character, but she has rarely been used well, even in the comics. She is almost like an early version of Gamma. For a perfect example of why someone would like the games' story better than SatAM or Archie, see Gamma vs Bunnie. I know a lot of people will just say Bunnie is hot, but seriously, the way Gamma's story is handled is about a million times more compelling, and done in a much more minimalist fashion, with much shorter total runtime.

>>18985 I had legit wondered at times if this show started life as something else before Sonic came into the picture, though some of the development material that has surfaced has kind of killed that theory for me.

i miss archie, idw can't compare.

Prime is shit compared to this show.

>>25703 I just caught up with Prime. It's pretty shit, but half the reasons it's shit are problems that SatAM has as well. Those reasons include things like having very little to do with the games, as well as having heavy doses of feminism that severely damages characterization. In SatAM, Sonic isn't as cool as he should be because Sally keeps shooting him down (not literally every time, but almost) and humbling him, because women have to be cooler than men. In Prime, Sonic isn't as cool as he should be because he needs to learn a lesson (primarily from Amy at first) about trusting his friends and being careful or something. As mentioned, in SatAM, Sally has to be cooler than Sonic, the real leader and hero who is essentially more effective than him, because feminism. In Prime, the first two arcs are spent fighting different versions of Amy, which are all super strong and dangerous for some reason. Also, Rebel, an alternate version of Rouge, is the leader of the rebels in her universe, where Robotnik has taken over. Knuckles is her lackey, even though Knuckles was the leader of the Resistance in Forces. It ends up with her just being Sally, but I can't tell if it's because at first someone actually wanted that universe to be SatAM, or if it's just because feminists are all similarly uncreative. And oh yeah, Amy isn't allowed to ever mention she's in love with Sonic, which is her whole character, so now she's "tough warrior girl" in all these alternate universes, because feminists are fucking shit at writing. And worst of all, WORST OF ALL, Rouge's cleavage is covered up. Why do they think she even exists? If you're gonna cover her cleavage, then don't even include her. Just have Cream be a main character instead. At least it makes more sense for her to be treated as one of Sonic's friends. This post began as complaining about SatAM, but now I'm putting together a bunch of different reasons Prime is gay. Another one is that there's no fucking point of going to alternate universes if they're just random ones and not ones that exist for an actual reason. Multiverses only exist in comics because DC rebooted and then wanted to cater to old fans by visiting old universes. So does Sonic Prime go back to old universes from the old shows? No. Does it at least go to the backwards universe where the good guys are bad and the bad guys are good, like Earth-Three from DC or the Mirror Universe from Star Trek? No. Instead it goes to Jungle Universe and Pirate Universe, and one universe where there are five Robotniks and they took over, making things vaguely like SatAM but not quite. On the other hand, once alternate Tails became more important of a character than Alternate Amy, Prime started getting better. The other thing to remember is that most of SatAM was fucking boring, and really there were like six episodes worth remembering. Meh. Both are disappointing but watchable. If you're a fan of the series, watch both, but both could have been much better.

>>25704 Boom is the best series

It saddens me the SatAM fandom is dead.

>>25704 I watched prime blindly knowing barely anything about Sonic and I though it was fine. A little silly and over the top, but okay.

>>25765 Did you watch it after "Season 3" came out? Admittedly, it's better than the first two batches of episodes. Not great, but at least Nine is a semi-interesting character, and gets a lot of focus here. I wouldn't mind seeing him appear more. I guess if they can't use Scourge, this is the next best thing. Better than Surge, at least. And a lot better than Kit. Since they insist the IDW comics and Prime are both canon to the games (and thus to each other), they should just fucking kill Kit and have Surge and Nine be a duo. Then kill Surge and just use Scourge, because there's no fucking way Ken Penders can claim a character literally named "Evil Sonic" isn't derivative, and that he owns it. Scourge is from an alternate universe anyway. Just have him show up in the main universe. The first two thirds of Prime were fucking boring though. Nothing happened. The last third was too slow but at least stuff was happening, albeit slowly.