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How do you tag? Metholodogy discussion thread Anonymous 05/25/2019 (Sat) 01:24:07 Id: 3afb9c No. 12692
To quit spamming the Q&A thread (sorry) I agree this should be made into its own thread. I'd like this to be a place to ask questions on "how should I tag this" for those that don't use the PTR and think you may be able to be more intelligent with how you tag. Also a place to discuss how you tag things and, most important, WHY that way. For example, what sort of issue were you looking to solve or what did it make easier by doing it that way? T o start off the discussion - I'm going to write a small essay on my thoughts on tags/tagging. It is my belief that tagging should be, above all else, two things 1) Simple - There are few scenarios where you must think if something should be tagged or not. Edge cases and oddities should be minimized at every opportunity. The number of tags should be kept small enough to maintain the entire list in memory. This is important for consistency. Speaking of which, the second item is… 2) Consistent - Tags should be well defined and used consistently. If a tag is often forgotten to be applied then it is a bad tag and should be either removed from the system or renamed/redefined as to be applied more consistently. In order to keep consistent tags it is also a requirement that all tags are able to be kept in memory to be applied properly. If you have so many tags that you are incapable of remembering them all then you will likely be tagging inconsistently. It is okay to add new tags to cover areas. A tag that is used infrequently because the number of items in the gallery are too few is acceptable but is discouraged if the term is rarely searched for (either as an inclusive or exclusive term). Remember: tags are meant to help you search for images. This is important when it comes to naming tags. I use a collection of 288 unnamespaced tags and 11 namespaces. The tags are mostly descriptors of clothes, physical traits, and objects. Namespaces are used for more meta information like character: artist: series: or whether a piece of art is SFW or pornographic. Some of the more heavily opinionated choices I've made in regards to my tags include: The tag "dog" is for actual animals and anthropomorphic characters are tagged using a namespace of "species:". There are no "doggirl", "catgirl", "mousegirl" tags, but "species:dog", "species:cat" instead. This rule was made because of Kemono Friends, Strike Witches. Because the rull is for all anthropomorphic characters, I end up with humorous scenarios like Upotte! and Girls Frontline using species:gun and Azur Lane using species:submarine, species:cruiser, etc. Along these lines, "cat ears" is not a tag that is used. "animal_ears" is the tag for all sort of animal ears and to specify which kind of animal ears, include a species: tag in the search. The series:original does not exist. Any artwork that lacks a series: tag is assumed to be an original work, otherwise it would have a series: tag saying which series it is from. Character names never include the series in parenthesis. This is what the series tag is for. To search for a specific character who shares the name of a character from another series - you include the series: tag in the search. The series is always the name of the first season - even if a character comes from season two which has a different name. This is primarily because of Fate/Grand Order but also series like THE iDOLM@STER. This was done for simplification purposes - as remembering which season/spinoff of a show a character is from leads to mistakes and inconsistent tagging. Underscores are always used for spaces. This is done so that wildcard searches function properly. My namespace for SFW/NSFW is "Lewdness" and has 3 levels: SFW, NSFW, Pornographic. NSFW is defined as any visible nudity so very lewd art is still "SFW" as long as it does not contain nudity. The cutoffs between "white", "silver", and "grey" are defined with a hexadecimal color code and the darkest color of the hair is sampled to determine the cutoff.
Anonymous 05/25/2019 (Sat) 11:47:50 Id: 7f057d No. 12698
>>12692 >to specify which kind of animal ears, include a species: tag in the search this kind of thinking has problems in my view. This search has the possibility to turn up false positives where multiple characters are depicted. Say we want to see only images with dog ears depicted, so we search for species:dog and animal_ears. A resulting file might have one character sporting cat ears and another character who is known to be a dog anthropomorphism, but no dog ears are visible. This sounds contrived but I think the problem becomes noticeable for more common tags. I like to create more specific tags for particular concepts that are important to me, and add lots of tag parents as necessary >Any artwork that lacks a series: tag is assumed to be an original work This seems dangerous if you have lots of files that have yet to be tagged at all. I suppose it makes sense if you are strict with your inbox/archive >Underscores are always used for spaces. This is done so that wildcard searches function properly. I didn't realise this was a problem. Personally I wouldn't sacrifice the prettiness of my tags for this, so hopefully the program gets fixed >My namespace for SFW/NSFW For me, this is the perfect opportunity to use rating systems instead, because a file necessarily only has one level of explicitness. It is much easier to click on a rating bar rather than deal with tags. >The cutoffs between "white", "silver", and "grey" I much prefer to play this by eye. This kind of ambiguity can really annoy me, especially for characters like Anchovy (girls und panzer) whose hair clearly looks green-ish, but is often tagged as silver. When in doubt, I just add all the colours which could reasonably describe the file
Anonymous 05/25/2019 (Sat) 14:15:50 Id: 79d9a2 No. 12704
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I think tags and namespaces are mostly a question of use, different objectives will need different tags and namespaces. I have two different Hydruses? I'm currently using. The first is a porn DB, on this case I'm mostly interested in the girl and what she's doing. How many dudes, how many girls, how many girls and dudes together (say there's two girls fucking a guy and one watching, that'd mean girl:3 buy gbr:2), if the pic is censored, and if so what kind of censor. Tags like characters (though I'll eventually remove male characters since it's useless in this case), series and creator. Then lewd tags like sex: since those tags are always fucked up and I like to be more specific. Sex:sex means vaginal sex, sex:blow means dick in mouth, if she's just liking the dick that's sex:lick, then sex:oral is the parent that includes sex:blow, sex:lick and a few others. cum: tag is about how and where, pic related shows the girl after a bird pooped on them, so that's cum:post, I'll eventually tag them as cum:on pussy, cum:breasts and the like. There's also characteristics, how clothed they are(if you can see the breasts/nipples, though clothing itself will be grouped into a huge fuck it clothes: tag), size of the breasts and ass, height. Race tag since it bundles up a bunch of characteristics as well. Lastly there's more meta shit, like site: which I use for md5 tagging, so I won't waste time searching for the same pic everytime. dtype: 2d/3dcg/3dn(jav and nip porn)/3dw(everything else 3d)/3do(anything real that isn't a person) and ftype which is kinda subjective type:h means there's some kind of obvious lewd shit(sex/cum/implied sex), nonh means it's mostly fine ranges from cute shit to non lewd nudity, then there's semih which is the middle ground, anything from fully clothed chicks I thought were hot to fully naked doing everything but explicitly insinuating sex. Basically nonh is "I can't fap to this" and H is sex. The art DB is simpler since I don't waste as much time sorting through it. Basically what is the format of the file, what dimension is it(simply 2d/3dcg/3d this time). Type is what the file is, type:resource means it doesn't explain shit and just shows you how the result looks, type:show means it kinda shows how you get it to look like it should and type:tutorial means it shows you how you get to that, explaining anatomy and shit. Then there's the subject of the file and anatomy: tags to go into what it teaches, then each tag of anatomy: has it's own tags. Say I want some reference for legs, type:resource anatomy:legs works. But if I want some tutorial on how the muscle goes over the bones, type:tutorial legs:bones. Also, neither file is fully tagged.
Anonymous 05/25/2019 (Sat) 15:05:44 Id: 3afb9c No. 12705
> This search has the possibility to turn up false positives where multiple characters are depicted. Say we want to see only images with dog ears depicted, so we search for species:dog and animal_ears. A resulting file might have one character sporting cat ears and another character who is known to be a dog anthropomorphism, but no dog ears are visible. This problem only happens if you blindly use child/parent tags for things that are "often true" but not "always true". You either need to manually fix tags when it is only "often true" (which may be a time saver compared to manually tagging). You also run into the same problem when searching for dog_ears if the file is also tagged cat_ears because it has an anthropomorphic cat character in it given the image is mistagged to begin with. >This seems dangerous if you have lots of files that have yet to be tagged at all. I suppose it makes sense if you are strict with your inbox/archive If you don't know if a character is from a series or not, would a mistag of series:original be better or worse? If the character is known from a series but doesn't have a series: tag it is trivial to add. I don't see any benefit to this tag, no matter how incomplete or complete your library's tagging is. It arguably has more to do with how familiar you are with the images in your gallery. If you download a bunch of images of characters you're unfamiliar with then the tag becomes more beneficial. It's beneficial for group, anonymous usage where knowledge of the browsed images is not assumed. However, I only tend to save images of characters I know of/care about and so there is no question about whether they are an original character or from a series because I'll know what series the character is from. I do see the merit in it if you use Hydrus for file discovery and not only tag management of already known files. *>For me, this is the perfect opportunity to use rating systems instead, because a file necessarily only has one level of explicitness. It is much easier to click on a rating bar rather than deal with tags.* I currently don't use the rating system and can't even figure out where it's hidden under. I agree that using ratings would make more sense for this. *>I much prefer to play this by eye. This kind of ambiguity can really annoy me, especially for characters like Anchovy (girls und panzer) whose hair clearly looks green-ish, but is often tagged as silver. When in doubt, I just add all the colours which could reasonably describe the file* I dislike having multiple hair colors assigned to one character, except when they in fact have multiple hair colors. More of a tidiness thing than a practical thing. It is a pain point though. >>12704 Those series: tags are driving me nuts. Like 4 of them should be aliases and Nintendo isn't even a series it's a creator or copyright. Same with the character:toad character:toad (Mario). That tag redundancy is the primary reason I never use public tags. The rest of your tags make sense and seems pretty consistent. I imagine not all of these tags were from you anyway, so if pulling namespaced tags from where you're downloading the images from you get the mess with it. If you were the one who tagged it series:mario bros five times, why?
Anonymous 05/25/2019 (Sat) 15:55:31 Id: 79d9a2 No. 12706
>>12705 >I imagine not all of these tags were from you anyway It's PTR mixed with MD5 searches from every booru that allows for MD5 searches. I'll fix them eventually, but it works for now, so it'll probably be the last thing I do, if I even get to it one day.
Anonymous 05/26/2019 (Sun) 02:25:32 Id: ad7514 No. 12714
I try to be practical about it and take a few things into account: >This is private, I'm doing this myself That means I use tags based on how I would search for an image later. I'm not doing an essay in tags for every minor detail I will never remember. The main purpose for me is to find images so I tag in a way that I will find them. >This is private, no one but me will ever use this set of tags Ties in to the first but it means very personal tags. You woudn't use "cute" on a booru, for example. >I have a fuckton of images to sort and there's always more to come That's why I keep it down. There's rarely more than a handful of tags and if there are, it's obvious things. A knight for instance will have something like "knight, armor, helmet, sword, shield, fighting, blood, deus vult" and there might be more because I utterly made that up. I do however use tags for one other purpose other than finding things: to provide source. I do try to be specific with the creator: series: and character: tags for that reason. Apart from that, since I see no reason to run an SFW database right now, I do have rating tags for questionable, explicit (this includes non-sexual stuff too, like a certain australian's lifestream) and pornographic, the latter two being a parent-child pair. So in the rare case someone is standing behind me I exclude those. Oh, and I tag if it's a gif, a video, a readable or an audiofile. One thing to remember when tagging is that you don't need nail the tags down so exactly from memory that you only find a single image. There's a nice big screen full of thumbnails. I firmly believe that some visual searching is far faster than trying to go by tags alone. Pro tip: If you want to replace a tag entirely, not just via sibling, fetch all files with the old one, tag them new and remove the old one. I did this a few times already.
Anonymous 05/26/2019 (Sun) 04:54:58 Id: 3afb9c No. 12716
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>>12706 Yea, I figured that was the case. It's quite pragmatic but god does it result in so many bad and redundant tags… >>12714 I agree about the private use meaning you can use tags that have personal meaning to you. "Cute" is a useless tag when tagging for other people but is very useful on a private collection to tag things you think are cute. I'd actually be interesting in hearing the kind of personal/private use tags people use as sometimes they're good ideas for the kinds of things that are worth tagging that I may not have thought about. I have a tag "waifu_material" for example. >One thing to remember when tagging is that you don't need nail the tags down so exactly from memory that you only find a single image. Not sure if you're saying this as a general thing or a response as a misunderstanding to what I said about memorizing tags. I don't think you should know what every image is tagged from memory - but rather that you should be able to keep all existing tags available to use in memory. The creation of new tags (that aren't namespaced like series: or character:) should be extremely rare in a well planned system. Forgetting to use a new tag is OK for a period of time but if you're consistently forgetting to use it then it is simply a bad tag. The worst tag is a tag that shouldn't be there but is. The second worst tag is one that should be there but isn't.
Anonymous 05/27/2019 (Mon) 14:45:01 Id: 7f057d No. 12729
>>12705 >I currently don't use the rating system and can't even figure out where it's hidden under. Services > Manage Services > Add > Local Numerical Rating Service The beauty of rating services is that they will not be carelessly pushed to the public repo, which is great because I think explicitness is very subjective
Anonymous 05/28/2019 (Tue) 15:55:36 Id: 5982e6 No. 12741
> Metholodogy Why not we gather all the major ways of managing Hydrus and create a "common workflow"?
Anonymous 05/29/2019 (Wed) 01:28:19 Id: 79d9a2 No. 12748
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I'm not sure if this goes here or in the questions thread, but how should I tag flash codes in the PRT? Boogie usually puts scenes in his flashes that are only accessible by code. Flash related has two alternate scenes you can access by typing 'paper' and 'yokai'. I think those are useful enough that I should put them in the PTR, but I don't think anyone has done anything similar, so I'm not sure what namespace to use. Maybe 'code:' or 'cheat'?
Anonymous 07/10/2019 (Wed) 17:43:07 Id: 6ee0e2 No. 13156
>>12741 This is a good idea.
Anonymous 07/16/2019 (Tue) 19:42:26 Id: 9e51f6 No. 13210
>>12748 That's not really something that should go into the tags at all, it's not really something you search with. If the file's notes could be shared on the public server it would go in there
Anonymous 07/17/2019 (Wed) 13:49:27 Id: 5982e6 No. 13219
>>13156 Wanna pitch in on how things can be done, judging by this thread? Of course the more variations the merrier
Anonymous 07/22/2019 (Mon) 21:04:33 Id: 7ebc5e No. 13272
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Boy I'm going to dread the day most of the top boorus start using male and female slave tags. That's going to ruin everything for me.
Anonymous 07/24/2019 (Wed) 09:00:38 Id: 7ebc5e No. 13284
>>13156 >>13219 Not the other guy but what about a collaborative parent and sibling database? I mentioned this once to the dev awhile back when he first added the option to import and export parent and siblings.The idea is something where everyone can contribute to and add to their client database. For parent tags, my biggest issue is trying to connect each and every character to a series or a sub series to a parent series. If there was a parent database that already did this then this could save a lot of time for some people. A sibling database though might be a bit tricky to pull off as not everyone is going to agree on a certain term used for a tag and certain people can be pretty autistic about their tags. Over the years of using Hydrus, I've noticed how some booru and sites create useless tags that clog up my client. Some would have misspellings, other times I would have tags like "buttjob", "assjob", "butt job", "ass job", "hotdogging" or tags like character:[first name] [last name] and character:[last name] [first name] when they all mean the same thing. With a collaborative sibling database, not only could we eliminate stuff like this by merging everything that means the same but, also pick and choose which term you like best and have hydrus remember that from now on even when you download a new database. This would also be great for sites with different language tags like Pixiv. Something like this though would also mean you'd need a site other then github and 8chan to pull this off as you'd also need a place to decide and discus a tagging schema that everyone can look through and follow.
Anonymous 07/24/2019 (Wed) 14:50:45 Id: 5982e6 No. 13287
>>13284 > Not the other guy but what about a collaborative parent and sibling database? I mentioned this once to the dev awhile back when he first added the option to import and export parent and siblings. > The idea is something where everyone can contribute to and add to their client database. For parent tags, my biggest issue is trying to connect each and every character to a series or a sub series to a parent series. If there was a parent database that already did this then this could save a lot of time for some people. > A sibling database though might be a bit tricky to pull off as not everyone is going to agree on a certain term used for a tag and certain people can be pretty autistic about their tags. Over the years of using Hydrus, I've noticed how some booru and sites create useless tags that clog up my client > With a collaborative sibling database, not only could we eliminate stuff like this by merging everything that means the same but, also pick and choose which term you like best and have hydrus remember that from now on even when you download a new database. This would also be great for sites with different language tags like Pixiv I would say that the first step of solving that issue is to have a wiki and a forum/chat dedicated to sorting those issues out. We urgently need a platform to debate such issues. Here is a basic idea: tag relationship diagrams like [core word] [derivatives] [misspellings] [disambiguation] and [{foreign language}] for siblings, and [subsets] [supersets] for parent/child. From these we create a page for each tag, from that we can start and sketch out a taxonomy that makes everything clear, like how Wikipedia manage their pages. If I am allowed to pick a repo, I would choose https://github.com/Requarks/wiki for Javascript-based or maybe a Python-based wiki if the whole of Javascript is a no-go (but it definitely needs page crosslinks, chats/forums, moderation.permissions, branching/forking, archives, page versioning, page categorization/heirarchy and other needed features)
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