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/monarchy/ general 2.0 Peasant 11/24/2020 (Tue) 19:56:53 No. 2288
For general discussion again.
>>2288 nuWojak posting is cancer.
Can someone link the archives? I remember somebody posted the archival links to where What a good ruler is(monarchy was there too) and others too.
>>2288 Why is democracy "materialistic", and what's wrong with that?
>>2304 people argue because arguing gets attention and nothing ever gets done
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>>2421 >The word clerk is derived from the Latin clericus meaning "cleric" or "clergyman"
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>>2421 secular governments are gay, you heretic
>>2424 Sucking the toes of clergymen is also kinda gay.
>>2425 this is not an (((atheist))) board, fuck right off.
>>2426 >this is not an (((atheist))) board, fuck right off. This isn't /christian/ either. They kept begging /pol/ to let them back in after the wignats went neopagan. /monarchy/ doesn't owe it to /christian/ to play Thomas Becket or simp for any Pastor Anderson.
Sup guys, I'm just a new lurker wondering if there has been any update on the Mad Monarchists? Do you guys think he'll ever come back? I hope he's alright. Also, anything like that? I don't have alot of Monarchy supporting media to consume. (Other then the reading lists)
>>2430 No, he probably won't. But that's okay, still plenty enough. >I don't have alot of Monarchy supporting media to consume This is true--the board itself is a fairly niche subject matter. You could always read, I guess.
I-is this board dead? I was hoping to find more Monarchists...
>>2432 Yea, I hoped for that too but this is sadly just a souvenir shop You'll need to go to an active board and forge a place for Monarchy there yourself Its good to check on this place ever so often to see if its woken from its slumber, but generally, if you want a place in the world, you either create it or pray I guess..? I'm forcing this in the distant land of 4place but you do you
Hey Cossack, if you're still around: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-proud-boys-terrorists-1.5899186 How does it feel being designated a terrorist by the Canadian government?
>>2434 Well, it seems to be creeping along, at least. But yes, if you want discussion, you have to make it.
Why isn’t Arrow’s theorem a “Knock it out of the park” argument against Democracy and for Monarchism?
>>2482 Honestly, "Give Us Barabbas" is far simpler and easy to understand. Though that one passage about the war with the Philistines needs to be properly understood in turn: demanding a king at that time was not the correct thing to do.
>>2483 >Honestly, "Give Us Barabbas" is far simpler and easy to understand. I don't know that reference. >Though that one passage about the war with the Philistines needs to be properly understood in turn ???
>>2491 Yes you do. It's the prime example in Western culture and history of why democracy is a bad idea.
>>2492 >Yes you do. I don't though. Google tells me it's a weird biblical reference, but I've no idea what it has to do with monarchy or democracy. I can't read your mind.
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>>2491 >>2499 >the story of Jesus Christ's death >one of the most well-known parables in the Gopsel >"weird" Biblical reference Even if you're some cringe fedora-tipper you really should take it upon yourself to know Christian stories if you live in a Christian nation. I'll give you a hint. Pontius Pilate gave the Pharisees, the precursors to rabbinical Judaism, one last opportunity to save Christ from imprisonment--per Roman tradition for the area one prisoner every passover was freed and pardoned. The Pharisees had a vote, and they voted to sentence God to death, and instead free a murderer and revolutionary.
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THE GREAT FOUNDER ARCHTYPE As explained by Aristotle in Politics Further, the state is by nature clearly prior to the family and to the individual since the whole is of necessity prior to the part… The proof that the state is a creation of nature and prior to the individual is that the individual, when isolated, is not self-sufficing; and therefore he is like a part in relation to the Whole. But He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because He is sufficient for himself, must either be a Beast or a God! A social instinct is implanted in all men by nature. & yet he who first FOUNDED the state was the GREATEST of benefactors! 🌞 But when a whole family or some individual, happens to be so pre-eminent in virtue as to surpass all others, then it is just that they should the royal family and supreme over all, or that this one citizen should be king of the whole nation. For, as I said before, to give them authority is not only agreeable to that ground of right which the FOUNDER of all states… are accustomed to put forward … but accords with the principle already laid down. For surely it would not be right to kill, or ostracize, or exile such a person, or… require that he should take his turn in being governed. The Whole is naturally superior to the part, and he who has this pre-eminence is in the relation of the Whole to a part. But if so, the only alternative is that he should have the supreme power, and that mankind should obey him, not in turn, but always!
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Anarchy? That word evokes a headless body. Monarchy, one head on the body-politic! Not 'A for Anarchy', but 'A for Autocracy'. Spoke Grace, muse of monarchy. "Let there be one Lord, one King!" said Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (Caligula), reportedly by Suetonius.

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The Monarch should ideally be seen as a provider, & then also the throne a source of wisdom. Any belief or disbelief in Monarchy pertains to these two things.

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King is Kin The ideal royal state is a political household under one head. The royal state becomes a great family, where all the people share a royal bond together. The Monarch becomes the Father of his People, & they act as if they share a blood relation with the Royal Monarch. "And this is the reason why Hellenic states were originally governed by kings; ...the kingly form of government prevailed because they were of the same blood [and suckled 'with the same milk']" -Aristotle, Politics
"Plato himself is for a Divine Power assisting in Human Politics… 'tis a remarkable passage that of his in his Meno. "We may as properly call Governors, or States-men, Divine, as we call those who give out the Oracles, or Prophets or Poets by that name; and we may affirm, that they have a Divine Illumination, and are possessed by the Deity, when they consult for the good of the commonwealth" –William Nichols "So that you may be the readier to defend the Constitution, know this: for all who have preserved their fatherland, furthered it, enriched it, there is in heaven a sure and allotted abode, where they may enjoy an immortality of happiness." -Cicero "For nothing happens in the world more pleasing to that supreme Deity, who governs all the universe, than those gatherings and unions of men allied by common laws, which are called states. From this place do their rulers and guardians set out, and to this place do they return." -Cicero "Exercise this soul in the noblest activities. Now the noblest are cares and exertions for our country's welfare." -Cicero
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 09/11/2021 (Sat) 16:25:03.
"Our father is Marshal Kim Jong Un, Our Home is the Party's embrace" "With the Respected Marshal who loves people most and regards his trouble for the people as his joy as our father in the harmonious great family we are assisting each other in the warm cherished house, our socialist homeland"
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Anarcho-Monarchy is an oxymoron.
Men are uncreated equal
>>2491 >he doesn't know who Barabbas is Sad!
>>2679 Not necessarily. Putting your undying faith in someone's leadership could be considered such. Not some bureaucratic abstraction but simply mob rule with a leader around whom people rally. Government would imply a collection of largely static rules with a set hierarchial structure, whereas mob rule would just be what people feel like doing. If they feel like tearing you limb to limb, that is what the mob will do. If they feel like tearing the leader apart in that exact same way because they got bored, that is also what they will do.
What is /monarchy/ thoughts on corporal punishment?
>>2756 I like the idea of stocks and pillories but they rely on humiliation to work. I don't see how they could work on degenerate moderns who shame and humiliate themselves daily worse than any pre-modern shame punishment. I'm not really a fan of public flogging though, seems barbaric. If the crime is bad enough why not just jail the perp under a harsh regime of discipline and labour or execution? Whichever is suitable. What do you think?
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>>2288 If you have a problem with electing a retard, then what you're probably looking for is a Dictator.
>>2734 True. Imagine ~8B ppl in atomic, centralized hierarchies. Somewhere between 800 to 80k neocameralist states, populations ranging from 10M to 100k. This is more decentralized and anarchic than fake democracy spook empires. >>2758 Aidan Maclear had a good post on this but I don't remember the post name. https://web.archive.org/web/*/aidanmaclear.wordpress.com Prison raises criminal status, public whipping till river tears flow flattens it.
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>>2734 Anarchy is the rule of no man. The anarchist symbol means order without rulers. Monarchy is the rule of one man. Hence, MON (meaning mono, one) & (arch). That settles as a form of government. That you are governed by someone, not whatsoever rules this person should create, but that you're under this ruler's wing. >Putting your undying faith in someone's leadership could be considered such. People make this comparison between autocracy and anarchy, but it doesn't really make sense here. What you say could apply to any regime. >mob rule would just be what people feel like doing Democracy. Do you see the difference? It isn't for no reason, that they call Anarchy a negative view of democracy. Anarchist views have their faith solely in the People or ultimately the wide autonomy of the masses whether that's expressed through the workers or through economics.
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Monarchy & Anarchy is a night and day difference. That is why I say it is an oxymoron. On one hand, you have the Monarchy, one ruler, & then the other is Anarchy, no rulers. Anarkiddie royalists are some other autism. They basically want royalism without the monarchy, imo.
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The royal rule being like a flock of sheep & their shepherd is a good comparison, for example. He is basically their leader, and the sheep follow the leader. This royal rule of the shepherd is vilified constantly today, by what many call a dictatorship, with a leader who speaks out to his people. Monarchy, where the father rules his children, or the master rules his servants, both combined in the relationship of a household ruler, would demonstrate how one ruler over a household operates. The fatherly rule of a household isn't necessarily a static rule -- it is dynamic, ready and able, under the leadership of the household ruler. Sad, but true, is that the classic image of a one-man ruler is vilified all the same. They cry out, "That's AUTOCRACY!" As if auto, meaning "self" and the overall meaning "self-rule" simply meant for the sake of the self only, but even an autocracy could be for the sake of their welfare rather than his own. That is why, Jean Bodin says, that his praise of Monarchy & many others praise of that form of government, wasn't flattery, but necessarily for the political good that government was in one sovereign's hand, to help direct and govern this flock. People like -auto, meaning self, in words like autonomy or automobile, but autocracy meaning someone's self doesn't really mean for partiality like certain anons would desperately try to imply, & would be synonymous with Monarchy, seeing as one person is also conjoined with one's self also. Self-rule is another ball park from "rule for self". Some constitutionalists like to single this out on Monarchy b/c they want to show how feeble Monarchy itself is from their pov, or that it must be partiality in spite of the mixture of government for the sake of the whole... but forgetting the pre-eminence of Monarchy, where the Monarch becomes like the whole in relation to the part and becomes the political good. That's why, they say, that you shouldn't separate the weal of the kingdom from the king, seeing as how Monarchy is a government where the public and private interest are conjoined and manifest through one person.
>>2771 Thanks, I'll try and find the post. >>2774 How to rehabilitate royal rule in the minds of the people, especially the lower classes? In my country the lower classes were much more staunchly royalist in the past. The lower classes could lead a populist revolt in favour of the Monarch and overturn this whole rotten system but mention the idea that the Monarch should rule now and they recoil in horror. They spend their days raging about the elites on social media and slavishly idolising foreign populist leaders like Trump but have no other political ideas or alternatives to the current system, apart from maybe some vague idea of sovereign citizenship or something. If they think anything of the Royal family it's that they're some kind of blood sucking, pedo lizard, illuminati family.
>>2775 >I want for the little guy to comprehend complicated ideas yea, thats not how "lower classes" work which is also why this system doesn't work enlightened citizen caste is a meme you either trick them or force them there is no other way
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Part 7 & 8 explained in context to Plato & Aristotle. "The true image of the Commonwealth is a well ordered household/family." -Jean Bodin
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PRE-EMINENCE OF MONARCHY From an absolutist standpoint, the Monarchy must have Pre-eminence or Majesty. The relation of the whole to the part, or as absolutists call it to be the relation of the general to the particular. The Pre-eminence of Monarchy from an absolutist perspective is explained in the motto, "I am the State" or "Nec Pluribus Impar". When the Monarch has the entire body-politic united with his natural person, His Majesty becomes greater for the political good. As one teacher means no more confusion from multiple teachers, and allows the entire political orientation and strength become realized through one man as in a Monarchy, the Monarch becomes extraordinary to everyone. As without this pre-eminence in Monarchy, there is no Majesty in Monarchy. Absolutist views on sovereignty complain about a mixed state, because it relates the Monarch to be limited and like a part in relation to the whole... no longer seen as pre-eminent, the Monarch is no different than your regular dictator to an absolutist... as many constitutionalists would say, that absolutism is no different from a dictatorship -- the absolutists would retort, that a dictator is simply a limited monarch, although their power is absolute -- they lack the sovereignty and pre-eminence, but also are sometimes limited to terms or don't have the entire state granted to them for life. The question would also be whether this dictator is a sovereign, as a dictator is seen as a limited monarch, but potentially can be a supreme sovereign -- and remember, the Monarch being supreme is also close to the notion of sovereignty, the ultimate power of life and death, like the Pater Familias. Most royalists wouldn't understand the absolutist view on dictatorship, viewing royals and dictators to be distinct... but absolutists not only agree with Plato that there is no difference between political/economical, that a small state and great household are no different, but absolutists also agreed with him on how a statesman, king, dictator, and household manager (or despot) really shared the same expertise and were in that regard no different. And even Aristotle considered a Dictatorship to be one of the four kinds of royalty. This explains why dictators, being one-man rulers and sharing the form, nonetheless sometimes transition to a state of Monarchy... as there is really no difference between a statesman, king, dictator, household manager, -- they all share the same despotic expertise. What matters to absolutists is not only whether the ruler is a king and abides by royalism -- as two kings could be a diarchy, and there not monarchy -- but whether there is one ruler. A statesman, king, dictator, or household manager could even be terrible at their jobs, but an absolutist also says that there are unique perks to Monarchy that might make even a tyrant better than a clique of great nobles, that being that one commander tends to have better victories than forces divided and unable to co-ordinate around a leader. When I talk about the pre-eminence of Monarchy, it also isn't about Meritocracy or simply being the best man -- that is great for the founder of the state and having a body-politic centered around Monarchy, but the Pre-eminence of Monarchy is more majestic than this -- not to downplay the importance of a skilled person -- but Pre-eminence is so extraordinary and grand, that Aristotle said, "What did the MOUSE say to the LION?" Or compared the Pre-eminent Monarch to a Demi-God. This is so extraordinary, and so breath-takingly great and magnificient, this pre-eminence of Monarchy and majesty, that nothing compares. One man is great and humbles an entire people, and is almost equal to them -- like Nec Pluribus Impar truly means, Not Unequal to Many -- The Monarch is great by means that most could hardly hope to physically achieve by any merit. And like Hobbes says for the Leviathan, that great Artificial Man of the Body-Politic, A Mortal God under the Immortal God. His case for pre-eminence meant having the whole People united, by true unity of them all in one person, and having a pre-eminent sovereign... for others, it meant having pre-eminence on behalf of God and what people lambast begrudgingly as "Divine Right" -- (Which really is one other means to Pre-Eminence -- what traditionalists don't understand or care about, because they this is all unique to Monarchy and not mere conservatism). The Pre-Eminence of Monarchy is not meritocratic in the sense that nationalists talk about, but it is by another means GREATER having the whole unity of People or being a divinely appointed Sovereign or by natural right of the supreme father... So people say, "How could one man rule over an entire people?" With great disbelief, and most people will say that, as if they didn't want you to believe in Monarchy, or outright deny that one person could be pre-eminent among so many people, and be the soul and unity of all of them... but Monarchy has always been compared to divinity or political power magnified for a reason... There is no justification or hope to have Monarchy without Pre-eminence. There is nothing to stand upon, and that's why these people would want to garner a disbelief and discourage them -- dash apart their political orientation towards Monarchy, because they know it sounds so grandiose that nobody could believe one person truly rules in Monarchy... and why on paper, Monarchy sounds like having a god among men, and that's because these is one man who has the relationship of the general to the particular. If you understand this about Monarchy, and how it could be so unbelievable that one person rules over thousands, then you see why the state of Monarchy is compared to God. The sovereignty, or majesty, is also compared to being an owner, but the absolutist bases this off the Father or Pater Familias rather than a private property owner, in order to see the true relationship that is political and having the pre-eminence of the whole, where the Father has the power of life and death originally, and sovereign power... So the Monarch, no different economically/politically, is the supreme father over his subjects, and has the ultimate authority, even if it gets borrowed for a limited time (like say to a limited monarch, like a non-sovereign dictator). That is why absolutists sound like edgelords to most people, because they believe in pre-eminence, and want a Monarch to have the relationship of the general to the particular... that involves going to extraordinary lengths and seeing the state united in the person of the prince, and it means respecting the Monarch like their supreme father and their royal shepherd.
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"The Household / Family well ordered is the true image of the Commonwealth." -Jean Bodin "My old home the Monarchy, alone, was a great mansion with many doors and many chambers, for every condition of men." -Joseph Roth "Socialism is the phantastic younger brother of Despotism, which it wants to inherit. Socialism wants to have the fullness of state force which before only existed in Despotism." -Friedrich Nietzche
"The fearful fathers fly unto their last refuge, they thought it best to name a Dictator… The city fled unto the remedy so long desired, which was to name a Dictator. And the reason was, for that they held the Dictator for a god, and his commandments for oracles… The Dictator's edict was always religiously observed. And even the enemies besieging the city of Rome, abandoned the siege, hearing that they had created a Dictator. So GREAT was the FEAR of a DICTATOR with the enemies, as he was no sooner created, but they departed from the walls." -Jean Bodin
MONARCHY IS MONSTROUS! The state of Monarchy is so monolithic, great, and monstrous, has awesome power and pre-eminence of a monarchic individual, like the pre-societal individual who first founded the state, that Aristotle called the greatest of benefactors. This is why Thomas Hobbes alludes to in his Leviathan, in its generation, and its manifestation in the natural person of a sovereign monarch... Power that is immense, tyrannical, great, absolute, resembling the status of the whole to the part, having the strength of the entire body-politic and people united in one person. This is why Caligula was called Emperor to Monster, because Caligula aspired towards the great state of MONARCHY that was greater than princes and petty kings. Let me continue about why the individual nature of Monarchy matters, and why conservatives might be juxtaposed to it despite their appraisal of royalism... When stating that Man is societal, he should also recognize the origin of that from Aristotle, where Hobbes criticizes... Aristotle says, that the STATE comes prior to the Individual and the Family... that the WHOLE comes prior to the PART... that a human body must come before there are hands and legs and heads and other appendages... Thomas Hobbes understood this very well, as Aristotle said that man separated from human society must be a GOD or a BEAST. BUT that Man who is so pre-eminent to be the Great Founder of the state, and establish wisdom and justice and teach men, is also pre-eminent, and isn't merely a part, but has the pre-eminence of the whole in comparison to the part, and has the whole power of the state invested in him... so the pre-eminent Monarch is compared to a God... and that's why Aristotle says, "What did the mouse say to the LION?" Think of the Egyptian sphinx, to better understand the Leviathan, and how Aristotle talks about GOD or BEAST... and the pyramid and its whole... these are important ideals of Monarchy, and about the individual nature, that an individual man, one person above thousands, must be pre-eminent simply because he was an individual whose person became associated with the greater whole. So that's how it ties into individuality... The conservatives rap about society, and their aversion of Monarchy is sometimes understood when the Monarch is an individual, like Nebuchadnezzar, as his Bible story had him walk with the animals, aka like a beast, and this is what conservatives fear about Monarchy, and won't accept in the individualist nature of the Monarch -- except, the individual nature is also tethered to the pre-eminence of this state and why it is likened to God. The Leviathan is hated by traditionalists no less than Frankenstein's monster, because like with Caligula whose aspirations were towards Monarchy, he assumed unto himself a great power, that was disdained by conservatives... that they associate with Monarchy as Monstrous. Hobbes Leviathan was said to be part-Man, part-God, part-Animal, Part-Machine... So Monarchy is by all means and forms, really monstrous in one way or another, because of the sheer pre-eminence and scale, even in modest royal states, because it is with great disbelief we'll see the whole state united in one person, and disbelief that one man truly rules over many... that same skepticism repeated by conservatives, because it is so hard to believe, that one man truly rules, but the pre-eminence of monarchy is so extraordinary and great, so magnificent, it obviously would be, and it's no wonder that on paper it is like a god among men, and why the state of monarchy is compared to God, if not for the fact that one person rules above thousands... as Louis XIV says, "I am the State" or "Nec Pluribus Impar" not unequal to many... not unequal to thousands... the pre-eminent Monarch humbles an entire population. The Sphinx is like the Leviathan in being a cross-hybrid, between God, Man, or Beast, and the pyramid in this image I'd say resembles the pre-eminence of the Whole... If you look at the front cover of Leviathan, you'll understand a few things: 1st, the Leviathan cover has a perfect triangle, between the Sword of Commonwealth and the Crosier, meaning protection and mastery of doctrine, with the Head... Hobbes said, that the Sovereign is the SOUL of the Commonwealth, not merely the Head, and why? Because like Aristotle mentioned, Hobbes sought the pre-eminence of the Whole in relation to the Part... Absolutists call this the relationship between general and particular... and associate it strongly with Sovereignty or Majesty... In the absolutist mythos, the Monarchy started out Despotic or Tyrannical, with Lordly Power, like William the Conqueror or the Roman Patriarch, and became Royal over-time, but still held the Power of Life and Death, the sole basis of absolute power being from the Pater Familias doctrine of the Romans that gave the Fathers of Families absolute power of life and death, the state of monarchy being like a household, no different political/economical (as economic means household) means that the political monarch is the father of his people, has the power of life and death... They will never appreciate how monstrous Monarchy is, & how this applies to all Monarchy in general. They will never truly accept the individual power, undivided, while still being the exception to the private individual, has a public personage, and such an extraordinary Monarchy. They fear Henry VIII, Akhenaten, & Caligula, they fear that one man could become a Monarch, that one person could humble thousands, and that a whole people could follow him like their shepherd and bring unity to the body-politic. They fear a Monarchy, these conservatives, not settling for anything better than multi-party democracy or said feudal equivalent, finding refuge in stagnation and division, and obfuscating everything, and hoping that the nobles would be an obstacle, as if the Twelve Disciples should be the worst enemy of Christ. SO their hatred of Monarchy could be explained through their conservatism / traditionalism. Not wanting to such an extraordinary Leviathan to shape a mold and one-man so pre-eminent to become the Father of the People.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 09/13/2021 (Mon) 20:52:22.
My opinion, why certain rightoids fail, & DPRK suceeds. Monarkiddies cannot have a political orientation, because esoteric trads and conservatives put politics secondary, and look upon it as poorman's theology. Esoteric trads want to obfuscate… don't want monarkiddies to have a proper political orientation towards a pre-eminence of monarchy. Whereas DPRK succeeds in having social cohesion even in their dire circumstances, where conservatives who talk about conservative family values and morality fail. It is not possible, without a healthy body-politic, to have the social cohesion and civic order they desire. If they place politics secondary, their pro-family talking point is a bluff. An absolutist differs from a feudfag / ordinary royalist, in seeing politics and sovereignty as crucial. It is described as the bulwark that is really the frame holding the entire ship. The conservatives consider politics to be not as important. As Bodin had a universal view on politics with his outlook on sovereignty, applied to all states, and not only his land in particular. As the traditionalists lament for "Westphalian sovereignty" & the rise of secularism, they look over the fact that the body-politic came first, and had to restore order in the circumstances leading up to the Wars of Religion & the many various regicides that followed, and conflicts. … So what I can admire in leftists / commies is that they aren't inhibited where these esoterics are, & many monarkiddies are, and leftists stress politics more. DPRK states that the family is still important, although they value the political unity first… from an absolutist point of view, the commonwealth is lawful union of many families, but also that the true image of the commonwealth is a great family. As they agreed with Plato, that there is no difference between political and economical, that a small state and great family are no different. And like Hobbes said, the family is a little city, and the city a great family. So when conservatives talk of family values exclusive to politics, they are wrong – it is no more a political affair, and you shouldn't say you are pro-family without also promoting political unity, the true image of a commonwealth being a well ordered household. And I know that they would try to assert in contempt the case against Monarchy, that Monarchy is a deviant force, that Monarchy alienated them, that Monarchy created the State, that Monarchy is responsible for all their problems. That they cannot bear the pre-eminence of a Monarchy. Let alone that one man should be supreme. And call it ambition, and follow their conservative counterparts in calling it demagoguery or despotism or tyranny or liberalism or Enlightenment or any number of names in the political arena. But Monarchy is the soul of a body-politic, Monarchy is filled with so much vitality, and like Bossuet says, that while these people might flatter the other parts of a state, they fail in desperately attacking Monarchy as nothing hurts like perishing the body and taking a rock and hitting the head. "Plato himself is for a Divine Power assisting in Human Politics… 'tis a remarkable passage that of his in his Meno. "We may as properly call Governors, or States-men, Divine, as we call those who give out the Oracles, or Prophets or Poets by that name; and we may affirm, that they have a Divine Illumination, and are possessed by the Deity, when they consult for the good of the commonwealth" –William Nichols "So that you may be the readier to defend the Constitution, know this: for all who have preserved their fatherland, furthered it, enriched it, there is in heaven a sure and allotted abode, where they may enjoy an immortality of happiness." -Cicero "For nothing happens in the world more pleasing to that supreme Deity, who governs all the universe, than those gatherings and unions of men allied by common laws, which are called states. From this place do their rulers and guardians set out, and to this place do they return." -Cicero "Exercise this soul in the noblest activities. Now the noblest are cares and exertions for our country's welfare." -Cicero This might sound strange coming from a poster who once said, "Political animals". My views changed, but still in their own peculiarity.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 09/13/2021 (Mon) 21:46:46.
I only wonder what Darius in the Herodotus Debate would say about some people who call themselves monarchists, and yet explicitly make rather pro-oligarchic statements... Darius who said that the Monarch in Monarchy is the Sole Aristocrat, the best man... hardly anyone would say so, even in monarkiddie circles... how sad it is. So being a monarchist is a lonely disposition. I have accepted this & that's why I don't bother, knowing inevitably non-monarkiddies will flood in.
>>2850 I'm curious, have you read Spengler? Also, can you stop using slang (and also define what certain ideologues you've labeled believe/what the labels mean, and actually provide proof for what you claim they believe) and posting bad OC (Grace-chan)? Thanks.
>>2288 >general about [topic A] >on a board for [topic A]
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>>2957 >>2958 No, I'm content with labeling conservatives as shills for multi-party democracy and clericals as always mouthing off "secularist" as if it was synonymous with "statist". For the former, the conservatives have always enjoyed being the counterpart partisan to the liberal and favored multi-party democracy, while the latter is perpetually butthurt. And esoterics as always trying to draw our attention away from political monarchy and into esoteric autism, because I'm guessing you're bietching b/c you're an NRx esotericfag What proof do I need? Conservatives have always participated in multi-party democracy and are basically sustained by multi-party democracy, and they get their rocks off by being the opposition to the Liberal, but that's about it. They favor multi-party democracy because it's how they thrive and the status quo they conserve. If you want proof about esoteric trads putting their autism first and politics in the backseat, look at /fascist/. The esoterics there took over and kinda lead conversations around by the leash, that I don't think the board there is primarily about even fascism like it used to be or the politics pertaining to it anymore. which is what I have no doubts esoterics would do with /monarchy/
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 10/01/2021 (Fri) 11:35:27.
>>2958 Like it should be. A /monarchy/ board that talks about... drum roll ... monarchy? Better than being a /his/ stand-in or NRx bloggers.
>>2972 I always thought /monarchy/ was for discussing diapers?
>>2973 >I always thought /monarchy/ was for discussing diapers? What would make you think that? We aspire towards the pre-eminence of Monarchy!
How exactly would you deal with a bad king in modern time? In olden time you just gather a bunch of peasants and storm the palace like the Frogs did it last time.
>>2978 >what if bad king, HHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMMM?
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>>2978 >How exactly would you deal with a bad king in modern time? The world has no shortage of mediocre or bad rulers, but they withstand it anyways. Look at the British Royal Family and the Prince Andrew controversy -- that's a modern royal family and nobody is going apeshit. No matter how much anyone might feign moral outrage or talk about how they're going to do the next /liberty/ Sic Semper Tyrannis stunt, it's not so likely they will actually live up to their words... Especially if everyone's bellies are full, a ruler can usually get away with being a little bad. It's usually exaggerated how many people would suffer from the wrath of a monarch, but it's usually a very small number of people who face any direct ire from a vengeful ruler (while the people in general would resume their lives without even noticing). I will play Devil's advocate and repeat what Jean Bodin said, "A bad man makes a great king". Sometimes I think we really do need an actual tyrant to whip people back into shape. And like Hobbes says, it's usually the game of the political arena to point fingers and start namecalling the other person bad. I'm not convinced someone is bad because they scream "king man bad". My opinion is that a truly bad ruler will meet his own downfall and don't advocate any monarchomachist regicide theories or letting the subject decide they will correct a superior with their own judgments. "But if it be so that the soldier which had onely broken the vine truncheon of his captain, beating him by right or wrong, was by the law of arms to be put to death: then what punishment deserveth the son which layeth hand upon his father?" -Jean Bodin Many call Hitler bad. Hitler had many assassination attempts, but later had his assassins killed. I wouldn't really loft my eyebrows at a regicide being hung, drawn, and quartered either. My other posture is why should we assume that a king couldn't redeem himself? I think it's more complex than simply this person is wholly bad -- and even if that were so, it doesn't mean they couldn't change for the better. Even King David and Gilgamesh had times where they were bad. I don't think the answer is to forever cast off the Monarchy and castrate it by making the Monarch in relation of the particular, like many people are desperate to see. Like Bossuet says, Without this absolute authority the king could neither do good nor repress evil. And ultimately it isn't for a sovereign monarch to be seen like a part, and be swapped in and out like term limits or have an eject button, as it is for some statesmen. I've heard many people criticize the Queen, "Why did Her Majesty allow X to happen?" And I think those people need to read what Bossuet said. Especially because I've come to notice over the years that moral outrage and outrage from the Monarch doing anything is stronger where the Monarch plays a more ceremonial role compared to the more tyrannical Monarch who is able to get away with much more without it being a major scandal -- while the smallest moves tend to jeopardize a ceremonial royalty -- so they are less inclined to do anything. You might as well wave good-bye forever to any pre-eminent or heroic view of Monarchy.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 10/01/2021 (Fri) 16:24:23.
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>>2288 Doesn't some rando adviser become defacto king behind the scenes if the real king is retarded or a child?
First time in a while that the Grace thread wasn't always on the top
>>2981 I didn't mean to dis the entire system. I mean how to deal with the situation when someone like Joe Biden and his puppeteers being a king.
>>3000 I don't know, I have to admit. Joe Biden would probably be too busy sleeping to utterly destroy a people, but it doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything with the administration as it stands. They're not storming the Bastille. >I didn't mean to dis the entire system. Idk, then it isn't exactly a pre-eminent absolutist Monarchy, if said person isn't an absolute sovereign. Which would mean that the king would have the relationship of the particular to the general, not really different from Biden's position except that it would be Biden for life. I'd say, it is what it is. What are you doing now under the Biden administraiton, if you are American? Imo, a king, statesman, dictator, or despot have the same expertise and only monarchy itself gives them a unique perk, as if there were one statesman or one king, or one dictator, or one despot. So it would be the same situation respectively, whether this person is a king or statesman.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 10/02/2021 (Sat) 13:33:19.
>>2288 if you are wondering about the lack of activity, this is probably because this entire board is 5 different people on different devices and tor tabs, so do be patient
I have always wondered how would you discipline a monarch? Heard of the concept of whipping boy but would the likes of Grace ever have a whipping girl?
>>3020 I assume that they get they're disciplining and behavior checked during their childhood.
>>3020 >but would the likes of Grace ever have a whipping girl? t. Alunya or any other b-tan
>>3021 probably won't be needed for grace, as she is a good girl
>ywn put Grace otk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Four_Corners Lord of the Four Corners was a title of great prestige claimed by powerful monarchs in ancient Mesopotamia. Though the term "four corners of the world" does refer to specific geographical places within and near Mesopotamia itself, these places were (at the time the title was first used) thought to represent locations near the actual edges of the world and as such, the title should be interpreted as something equivalent to "King of all the known world", a claim to universal rule over the entire world and everything within it. Thutmose I Universal Triumph >He brought the ends of the earth into his domain; he trod its two extremities with his mighty sword, seeking battle; but he found no one who faced him. He penetrated valleys which the royal ancestors knew not, which the wearers of the double diadem had not seen. His southern boundary is as far as the frontier of this land, his northern as far as that inverted water which goes downstream in going up-stream. The like has not happened to the other kings; his name has reached far as the nether world; the oath is taken by it (viz, his name) in all lands, because of the greatness of the fame of his majesty. They (viz, the lands) were not seen in the archives of the ancestors since the Worshipers of Horus, who gives breath to the one that follows him, his offerings to the one that treads his way. His Majesty is Horus, assuming his (Horus's) kingdom of myriads of years, subject to him are the isles of the Great Circle, the entire earth is under his two feet; bodily son of Re, his beloved, Thutmose I, living forever and ever. Amon-Re, king of the gods is his father, the creator of his beauty, beloved of the gods of Thebes, who is given life, stability, satisfaction, health, joy of his heart, upon the throne of Horus, leading all the living like Re, forever. >I made the boundaries of Egypt as far as that which the sun encircles. I made strong those who were in fear; I repelled the evil from them. I made Egypt superior to every land… Favorite of Amon, Son of Re, of his body, his beloved Thutmose I, Shining like Re, beloved of Osiris, First of the Westerners; Great God, lord of Abydos, ruler of eternity; given life, stability, satisfaction, and health, while shining as King upon the Horus-throne of the living; and joy of his heart, together with his ka, like Re, forever. Hobbes' Behemoth on Deposing of Atahualpa >But in Peru, when Atabalipa was King, the friar told him, that Christ being King of all the world, had given the disposing of all the kingdoms therein to the Pope, and that the Pope had given Peru to the Roman Emperor Charles the Fifth, and required Atabalipa to resign it; and for refusing it, seized upon his person by the Spanish army there present, and murdered him. You see by this how much they claim, when they have power to make it good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakk%C5%8D_ichiu Hakkō ichiu (八紘一宇, "eight crown cords, one roof", i.e. "all the world under one roof") >The term was coined early in the 20th century by Nichiren Buddhist activist and nationalist Tanaka Chigaku, who cobbled it from parts of a statement attributed in the chronicle Nihon Shoki to legendary first Emperor Jimmu at the time of his ascension. The Emperor's full statement reads: "Hakkō wo ooute ie to nasan" (八紘を掩うて宇と為さん, or in the original kanbun: 掩八紘而爲宇), and means: "I shall cover the eight directions and make them my abode".
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What are anons thoughts about the French tradition of treating the younger son as a girl when there are multiple male heirs to the Kingdom?
>>3038 It sounds pretty cute
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>>3040 It's also very true. Happened to Philippe 1st.
We have heard Aristotle's water argument, that one droplet of water corrupts more easily than an ocean of water… I have a few counter-narratives. From Dante "Cupidity is impossible when there is nothing to be desired, for passions cease to exist with the destruction of their objects. Since his jurisdiction is bounded only by the ocean, there is nothing for a Monarch to desire… So we conclude that among mortals the purest subject for the indwelling of Justice is the Monarch." "Moreover, to extent however small that cupidity clouds the mental attitude towards Justice, charity or right love clarifies and brightens it. In whomever, therefore, right love can be present to the highest degree in him can Justice find the most effective place. Such is the Monarch, in whose person Justice is or may be most effective… That right love should indwell in the Monarch more than in all men besides itself thus: Everything loved is the more loved the nearer it is to him who loves; men are nearer to the Monarch than other princes; therefore they ought to be most loved by him." (Keep the Themistian concept in mind for that one) From Darius in the Herodotus Debate "Nothing can be found better than the rule of the one best man; his judgment being like to himself, he will govern the multitude with perfect wisdom, and best conceal plans made for the defeat of enemies. But in an oligarchy, the desire of many to do the state good service sometimes engenders bitter enmity among them; for each one wishing to be chief of all and make his counels prevail, violent enmity is the outcome, enmity brings faction and faction bloodshed; and the end of bloodshed is monarchy; whereby it is shown that this fashion of government is best. Again, the rule of commonalty must of necessity engender evil-mindedness; and when evil-mindedness in public matters is engendered, bad men are not divided by enmity but united by close friendship; for they that would do evil to the commonwealth conspire together to do it," Hobbes on oligarchic passions "This inconvenience therefore must be derived, not from the power, but from the affections and passions which reign in every one, as well monarch as subject; by which the monarch may be swayed to use that power amiss. And because an oligarchy consists of men, if the passions of many men be more violent when they are assembled together, than the passions of one man alone, it will follow, that the inconvenience arising from passion will be greater in an oligarchy, than a monarchy." So while you might say, that a monarch is more prone to being corrupt, I will say that for multi-party democracy, the scheme of it lends itself to in-fighting and factionalism that is worse than any corruption of a monarch… because whole swaths of the population are seen as mortal enemies, divided into political parties and animosity, where the violence of a cruel Monarch might extend to a very small number of unlucky courtiers or officials, it is worse with the enmity seen here that is extended to vast percentages. So that itself becomes more of a corruption even if the expertise of these men are good and incorruptible. And like Bodin says, that although there might be a league of many great nobles, one tyrant could still best them by the unity of being one. "For even Leo writes in his history, that the people of Africa hold it for an infallible maxim, that a prince which is but weak in forces, shall always defeat a stronger army that has two generals. And more ineffectual, being divided, and impotent in multi-party democracy… whereas the Monarch becomes like a teacher, where many teachers would be confusing to an entire classroom, they are able to focus on real issues at hand and see the whole body-politic itself, as one man himself appears before them. So there is less confusion.
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Jean Bodin's talking points "As for the other point, That they must give the sovereignty unto the most worthy, It is true; but the argument makes more for a Monarchy, than for an Oligarchy; for among the most noble, the most wise, the most rich, and the most valiant, there is always some one that does excel the rest, to whom by that reason the sovereignty does belong." (That Monarchy is Aristocracy; the sole aristocrat, or the best man – aristocracy, meaning, rule of the best, rather than the few, like oligarchy). "But Plato had another argument for an Aristocratical estate, saying, That it was very hard to find any one man so wise and virtuous, as was requisite for the government of an an estate, and by that means a Monarchy were not sure. But this argument is captious, and may be used against himself: for if it be hard to find any one prince so wise as he desires, how shall they find out so great a number as is needful in a Seigneurie. And Peter Soderin Gongalonier of Florence, speaking unto the people against an Aristocratical estate, he used the same argument which Maecenas did before Augustus against Marcus Agrippa, saying, That the government of dew lords, is the government of few tyrants: and that it was better at all events to have but one tyrant. For if any one will say, that among many there will haply be some number of good men, we must then rather choose a Popular estate, for that in a great number there will be found more virtuous than in a less. But both the one and the other is unprofitable: for as well in all Aristocratical and Popular estates, as in all corporations and colleges, the greatest part does still over-rule the sounder and the better: and the more men there be, the less effects are there of virtue and wisdom (even as a little salt cast into a great lake, loses his force:) so as the good men shall be always vanquished in number by the vicious and ambitious: and for one tyrant there shall be a hundred which will cross the resolution of the lesser but of the sounder part: as it is always seen as well in diets or assemblies of the princes of Germany, whereas the spiritual princes of the empire, being the greatest number, have always crost the princes temporal; so as by their means the emperor Charles the Fifth, caused the empire to declare itself an enemy of the house of France, the which had not been in so many ages: to the end the temporal princes should have no hope of any succours from France in their necessities, whereinto they soon after fell. And to make short, it has been always seen, that the more heads there be in a Seigneurie, the more controversies arise, and less resolution." "There is no reason to balance the cruelties and extorsions of a tyrant, with the actions of good princes: we know well that a peaceable Optimacy and wisely governed, if it may be, is better than a cruel tyranny. But the question is, whether it be better to ahve a just and upright king, or many good lords: and whether a tyranny of fifty tyrants be not more dangerous, than of one tyrant alone: And if there be not much more danger in a Popular or Aristocratical estates. than in a Monarchy. Yea it is most certain that a tyrannical Monarchy is sometimes more to be desired than a Democracy or Optimacy, how good soever: For if many wise and skillful pilots hinder one another in striving to govern the helm; even so will many lords do, every one seeking to govern the Commonweal, be they never so wise and virtuous. Although it be not needful to insist much upon this proof, that a Monarchy is the most sure, seeing that a family which is the true image of the Commonwealth can but have one head."
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Plato says on Monarchy, "And when an individual ruler governs neither by law nor by custom, but following in the steps of the true man of science pretends that he can only act for the best by violating the laws, while in reality appetite and ignorance are the motives of the imitation, may not such an one be called a tyrant?" "Certainly" "And this we believe to be the origin of the tyrant and king, of oligarches, and aristocracies, and democracies–because men are offended at the one monarch, and can NEVER be made to BELIEVE that any one can be worthy of such authority, or is able and willing in spirit of virtue and knowledge to act justly and holy to all; they fancy that he will be a despot who will wrong and harm and slay whom he pleases; for if there could be such a DESPOT as we describe, they would acknowledge that we ought to be too GLAD to have him, and that he ALONE would be the happy ruler of a true and perfect State. "To be sure." "But then, as the State is NOT a beehive, and '''has no natural head who is at once recognized to be the superior both in body and in mind, mankind are obliged to meet and make laws, and endeavor to approach as nearly as they can to the true form of government." Much spoken here in Plato, I believe, attributed much to the baseline of Hobbes' political philosophy. Firstly, for Plato, stating that the state is not like a beehive and has no natural head. I think much of what everyone criticizes about Hobbes was really Hobbes in reaction to this line. For example, Hobbes criticizing Aristotle and saying that men aren't exactly political like ants or bees… No doubt Hobbes read this from Plato. I personally think that Hobbes' political philosophy was monarchist in origin, and in response to the dilemma put forward by Plato, that naturally, mankind doesn't have a natural head and superior of a Monarch, and could only endeavor to approach this true government… Hence, Hobbes individualism and reaction to this, that all traditionalists despise and lament for his Frankenstein creation of the Leviathan, I believe has a monarchist discrepancy in origin, that most traditionalists wouldn't understand as they lament about Hobbism. I think why Hobbes did what he had done was from a monarchist mentality. In frustration with what Plato said here, he wanted to correct it and re-adjust so that there would be a place for Monarchy under the Sun. So you see the Hobbesian state of nature, and the individualist methodology, and the artificial person of the Leviathan, and leniency towards Monarchy that he did, where the People form this body-politic and find a head who is at once recognized to be a superior by this popular pre-eminence. 2ndly, on the origin of the tyrant, that the word itself came from scorn and disbelief, because "men are offended at the one monarch, and can never be made to believe that any one can be worthy of such authority" – and like I said before on how monstrous Monarchy is, there is a great disbelief in Monarchy, not withstanding the potential it has… because when Plato says "but following in the steps of the true man of science pretends that he can only act for the best", they immediately suspect that it is by appetite and ignorance, and not for the best of the state that this is done – and so he replies, that men are offended, because they cannot believe in the pre-eminence of Monarchy, and it isn't for no reason that there is disbelief that one man should be supreme over thousands – because it is so great. The whole notion of the origin of the word tyrant coming from men's scorn and offense is pretty Hobbesian. To be glad to have such a despot, if they could only believe this. Which is the major discrepancy, not whether he would act justly and holy, but that they couldn't believe it – that inhibits it. I've talked much about pre-eminence and how it is so great that hardly anyone could believe it, and thus why certain anti-monarchy people try to prompt a monarchist into this -- because they understand this very well, and want you to doubt it or step down, rather than double down and re-affirm that there is pre-eminence in Monarchy. So Bodin responds, "But Plato had another argument for an Aristocratical estate, saying, That it was very hard to find any one man so wise and virtuous, as was requisite for the government of an an estate, and by that means a Monarchy were not sure. But this argument is captious, and may be used against himself: for if it be hard to find any one prince so wise as he desires, how shall they find out so great a number as is needful in a Seigneurie. 3rdly, while absolutists agree to disagree with Plato, on the sovereign being subject to laws, it is 50/50. Hobbes disagreed with Aristotle in support of the rule of men. For fundamental laws, there is a certain respect, and those are seen as molding the state/form of Monarchy itself. For the laws of God and nature, Bodin says the Monarch is subject. But not to human laws/customs. But they agree with Plato, despite their absolutist tendency that a Monarch is absolved from human laws and has the power of life and death, that not following their own laws or the laws of nature, would lead to their ruin (like 4th pic related for fundamental laws). Except the absolute power of a sovereign is seen as a fundamental law. All states have an absolute power in that sense. If something must be done, there's no doubt some states will do it. But I can see why Hobbes called Plato the best of the Greek philosophers, if bits like this inspired him.
While Arthur Schopenhauer said that Monarchy is natural, I think it goes both ways… for Monarchy is also said to be monstrous, or in more polite terms said to be extraordinary or divine or pre-eminent. There have certainly been those who said that Mankind has a place for Monarchy, and like Robert Filmer in Patriarcha marks out a kind of right of fatherhood for various peoples by descent, giving them that natural person at once recognized as a superior. But there are many who will stress how naturally mankind is democratic and has no need for monarchy or any state (like the anarchists) and that there might as well not be any Monarchy. That it is insufficient. That Monarchy is outside the nature of men, and that the people have no need or desire for a monarch. If anyone could understand this sentiment I talk about from a monarchist standpoint, you too would understand this problem.
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>>2844 The main reason I put so much emphasis on fear in that quotation from Jean Bodin is I imagine this passage inspired Hobbes in his assertion that it was fear that brought about the generation of the commonwealth or leviathan. He says that by fear of each other is sovereignty by institution, and fear of him who rules is soverignty by acquisition, but the rights of sovereignty are the same in both. That was no doubt influenced by Bodin's distinction between royal and lordly monarchy (lordly monarchy primarily being the monarchy of a conquerer in this context). That's the other more neutral view, that while there is royal monarchy, lordly monarchy, and tyrannical monarchy from this point of view, monarchy is monarchy at the end of the day (from the absolutist view) and sovereignty belongs to each regardless (unconventional and neutral for the time). There is a kind of mythology in Absolutist thinking, that Monarchy starts out tyrannical or lordly. Where the Father has power of life and death. Or Nimrod. Or William the Conqueror. Or Qin Shi Huang. Rulers that initially start out very heavy-handed and by magnanimous rule, but later on become soft-handed as a Royal Monarchy. King James VI & I said this in a speech, I believe Of course, they retain the power of life and death from this point of view for any Monarchy.
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What would happen if you gave a woman soy-filled food products? What "feminizing" effects would we see take place in their bodies externally? What about internally?
>The accession of Louis XIV (1661) ushered in a new era in the history of France. He was young, headstrong, anxious to extend the territories of France, and determined to assert his own supreme authority, including that over papal claims. This attitude led inevitably to friction with the Papal States, resulting in the so-called Corsican Guard Incident. >The Corsican Guard was the personal guard for the pope, formed by Pope Clement VIII in 1603. Unfortunately, the Corsicans were rather intemperate, and in 1662, as a result of an insult to Pope Alexander VII by the Duke du Crequi, the French ambassador to the Papal States, the Corsican Guard led an attack against the French ambassador's Guard in Rome, leading to several deaths. This created an international incident. Louis XIV of France retaliated by dismissing the nuncio at Paris and forcing Alexander VII to disband the Corsican Guard. Louis also seized Papal Venaissin and Avignon, which was declared an integral part of the Kingdom of France. Alexander VII was also obliged to accept the very humiliating terms imposed upon him by the Peace of Pisa (1664). In fulfillment of this treaty, Cardinal Chigi, the pope's nephew, came to Paris in 1664 to tender the pope's apology to Louis. The guilty individuals were punished, the Corsicans were banished forever from the Roman States, and in front of the guard-house that they had occupied, a pyramid was erected in Rome, bearing an inscription that embodied the pope's apology. In 1668, with the accession of the new pope, Clement IX, and as a gesture of good will, Louis ordered the destruction of this humiliating pyramid.
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Jean Bodin concerning popes >But I think no man doubts, but that the king even before his consecration enjoys both the possession and propriety of the kingdom, not by inheritance or his fathers right, and much less by the country of the bishops or peers, but by the royal law and custom of the realm, as was long since decreed of the French men, that no man should think the power of the king to depend on the pleasure of the bishops; not for that the Senat ever doubted the power of the king before his coronation; but that those vain quirks of the bishops might be utterly reselled. For it is an old proverb with us, '''That the king doth never die, but that so soon as he is dead, the next male of his stock is seized of the kingdom, and in possession thereof before he be crowned, which is not conferred unto him by succession of his father, but by virtue of the law of the land; least the succession of the kingdom should be uncertain, then which nothing can be more dangerous in a Commonweal. >And to show a greater submission of the emperors unto the popes, the subscription of the emperor's letters unto the pope, is this, I kiss the hands and feet of your Holiness. So used always the emperor Charles V to subscribe to his letters, when he writ unto pope Clement the seventh. Which he did not upon a feigned courtesy, but indeed in most humble and servile manner kissed the Pope's feet, in open sight of the people, and the greatest assemblies of many noble princes, at Bononia, Rome, and last of all at Marsielles in Provence, where were met together the Pope, the Emperor, the Kings of France and Navarre, the dukes of Savoy, of Buillon, Florence, Ferrara, Vitemberg the Grand Master of Malta, with many other princes and great lords, who all kissed the Pope's feet, except the dukes of Buillon and Vitemberg, Protestant princes, who had forsaken the rites and ceremonies of the church of Rome. In far more base sort did that duke of Venice humble himself (who of the Venetians themselves is called a dog) for that he with a rope about his neck, and creeping upon all four like a beast, so craved pardon of Pope Clement the 5th. But nothing was more base, than that which almost all historiographers which write of the Pope's affairs, report of the Emperor Frederick the Second, who to redeem his son out of prison, lying prostrate upon the ground at the feet of the Pope Alexander the Fourth, suffered him to tread upon his head, if the histories be true. Whereby it is well to be perceived, the Majesty of the Emperors, by the power (should I say) or by the outrageousness of the Bishops of Rome, to have been so diminished, as that scarce the shadow of their ancient majesty seems now to remain. They also say themselves to be greater than the emperors, and that so much greater, as is the Sun greater than the Moon: that is to say, six thousand six hundred forty and five times, if we believe Ptolemy and the Arabians. And that more is, they have always pretended a right unto the empire: for the imperial seat being vacant, they have given the investitures unto them which held of the empire, and received of them their fealty: as they did of John and Luchin, viscounts of Milan, the imperial seat being empty in the year 1341, who are in the records called vassals of the church of Rome, and not of the empire; and are forbidden their obedience unto Lewes of Bavaria the Emperor, who was then excommunicated, as we have before said. For which cause the Canonists have maintained, that the emperor cannot give up his imperial dignity unto any, but unto the pope. >But howsoever the Bishop of Rome pretended to have a sovereignty over all Christian princes, not only in spiritual, but also in temporal affairs, whether they got it by force of arms, or by the devotion and grant of princes; or by long possession and prescription: yet could not our kings even for any most short time endure the servitude of the Bishop of Rome, nor be moved with any their excommunication, which the Popes used as firebrands to the firing of Christian Commonwealths. For these Popes interdictions, or excommunications, were wont with other nations, to draw the subjects from the obedience and reverence of their prince: but such has always been the love of our kings towards their people (and so I hope shall be forever) and loyalty of the people towards their kigns: that when pope Boniface the Eight saw himself nothing to prevail by his excommunication, nor that the people were to be drawn from the obedience of their king, after he had publically excommunicated Philip the Fair, he in like manner excommunicated all the French nation, with all them which took Philip for a king. But Philip having called together an assembly of his princes, and other his nobility, and pereceving in his subjects in general a wonderful consent for his defense of his state and sovereignty: he thereupon writ letters unto Boniface (which are common in every man's hand) to reprove him of his folly: and shortly after sent Nogaret with his army into the Pope's territory, who took the Pope prisoner, (giving him well to understand that the King was not his subject, as he had by his Bull published) but seeing him through impatience to become furious and mad, he set him again at liberty. Yet from that the Pope's interdiction, the King by the advice of his nobility and Senat, appealed unto a general council, which had power over the Pope, abusing the holy cities. For the king next unto Almighty God had none his superior, unto whom he might appeal: but the Pope is bound unto the decrees and commands of the council. And long times before Philip the Victorious, and his realm being interdicted by Pope Alexander the Third, who would have brought him into his subjection: answered him by letters, That he held nothing of the pope, nor yet of any prince in the world. Benedict the third, and Julius the second, had used the like excommunication against Charles the seventh, and Lewes the twelfth (who was called the Father of his country) that so as with firebrands they might inflame the people to rebellion: yet failed they both of their hope, the obedience of the subjects being nothing diminished, but rather increased: the Bull of excommunication which the Popes legat brought into France, being by the decree of the parliament of Paris openly torn to pieces, and the legat for his presumptuousness cast in prison… True it is, that they which have thought better to assure the majesty of the Kings of France against the power of the Pope, have obtained the Pope's bulls whilest they yet stat in the city of Auignion to be exempted from their power. And namely there is in the records of France a Bull of Pope Clements the Fifth, whereby he not only absolved Philip the Fair and his subjects from the interdiction of Boniface the Eight, but also declared the King and the realm to be exempted from the Pope's power. Pope Alexander the Fourth also gave this privilege unto the realm of France, That it could not for any cause be interdicted, which was afterward by seven Popes successively confirmed by Gregory, Clement the fourth, Urban the fifth, and Benedict the twelfth, whose bull yet remain in the records of France: which yet seem unto me not to increase, but rather to diminish the majesty of our Kings, who were never in any thing beholden unto the Popes. And that more is, the court of parliament of Paris, has been by many decrees declared the clause, By the authority Apostolical; usually inserted into the Popes rescripts sent into France, to be void, mere abusive, and to no purpose: and therefore it behooved him, that would help himself by any such the popes rescript, to protest in judgment, That he would not any way take benefit of that clause. By all which things it is plainly to be understood, not only the kings, but the Kingdom of France also, to have been always free from the Pope's power and command.
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Jean Bodin on popes continued >Upon this difference cast themselves into the protection of the Kings of France, who were the GREATEST Monarchs of Christendom; wherein they were not of their hope deceived. For hereupon, Pipin, Grand M. of France (a man of great wealth and power, who then disposed of all the affairs of the realm) with a great army passing over the Alps, overthrew and discomfited the power of the Lombards, and afterward going to Rome, was the first that gave unto Pope Zacharie, part of the seignorie of Italy, who had before crowned him King of France, forbidding the peers and people of France to make of any choice of any other for their kings but of the house of Pipin, having publicly pronounced King Childeric for his sottishness to be unable for the government. Whereunto the people of France made so much the less resistance, for that Pipin then had the nobility and the army of France at command: and for that the Pope (who as then was esteemed as a God upon earth) was the author thereof, unto whom Pipin had before solemnly promised, and given him letters pattents thereof, That if he should become victorious over the Lombards, he should give unto the Church of Rome the Exarchate of Ravenna, which contained thirty cities, and the province of Pentapole, which contained sixteen cities moe; which he after the victory performed, laying the keys of the said cities upon Saint Peter's altar; yet reserving unto himself and his successors in the crown of France, the sovereignty of both the provinces; and that more is, power also to choose the Popes. Whereunto the Pope not only willingly granted, but almost persuaded Pipin to take upon him the name of an emperor: which title none then used, but the emperors of Constantinople. But Pipin being dead, the Lombards again took up arms, to the great disquiet of the Popes, who again had recourse unto the French Kings, as unto ta most sure sanctuary. Whereunto Charles, Pipin his son (for his many and worthy victories surnamed the Great) with a strong army passing the Alps, not only overthrew the king of the Lombards, but even their kingdom also: and having surely established the power of the Roman bishops, was by them called Emperor: and they again by Charles so long as he lived, all chosen bishops of Rome. But after the death of this Charlemagne, they which were of great credit in Rome, caused themselves to by chosen pope by the clergy, whether it were for the distrust they had to obtain that dignity of the Kings of France, having no favor in the court; or through the negligence of the French Kings, who had thereof no great care; or that it was by reason of the great civil wars which arose betwixt the children of Lewes the Gentle, wherewith the French Kings busied, lost the prerogative they had in choosing of the chief Bishop. Yet Guitard, a great antiquary, who lived in the same time writes, 3 Popes successively to have come into France to excuse themselves to Lewes the Gentle, That they had been by the clergy of Rome constrained to accept the papal dignity, beseeching him to confirm the same: which he either as a man not desirous of glory, or else fearing to provoke the clergy (being then in great authority) did: of which his error he afterwards though to late full sore repented him; being by the college of cardinals constrained to yield up his Crown, & to make himself a monk, and his wife a nun, shut up apart from her husband in a cloister with other nuns, who yet were again afterwards delivered by the princes and nobility of France, (disdaining to see the pride of the clergy) and so again restored unto their former honors. But after the death of this Lewes the Gentle (who was Emperor of France, of Germany, and of greater part of Italy, and Spain) the empire was divided into three kingdoms, which the brethren Charles the Bauld, Lothaire, and Lewes, every one of them held in title of sovereignty, without acknowledging a superiority of one another; and again, the kingdom of Lothaire was divided amongst his children into three parts: unto one fell the kingdom of Lorraine, unto another the kingdom of Arles, and to the third the kingdom of Italy: Lewes holding Germany, and Charles the Emperor, France. So their divided power began to decay, and the wealth of the bishops of Rome greatly to increase: they now succeeding one another by way of election, and in nothing acknowledging the majesty of the French kings, as they ought to have done: which came to pass especially in the time of Pope Nicholas the First, who better understood to manage matters of state than his predecessors, and was the first that used the rigors of excommunication against princes, having excommunicated Lothaire the younger brother of Lewes king of Italy." >Howbeit that in truth the right of choosing of the pope belonged to the Kings of France, and not unto the German princes, who have but usurped the name and title of emperors, got by the prowess and force of Charlemagne king of France and by him left unto his successors the kings of France, and not unto the kings of Germany; for so they were called in all the ancient treaties and histories of Germany and France, and not emperors, except those which were crowned by the popes. But after that the power of the German kings was far spread in Italy, they then sought to usurp unto themselves that right of choosing of the bishops of Rome: whether it were for the increasing of their own wealth and power, or for to take away the ambition and foul corruption then used in voices giving, and in their elections. For the emperor Henry the third thrust out of his papacy Gregory the sixt, chosen pope by the clergy, and set Clement the second in his place, and afterwards compelled the clergy to swear, not from thenceforth to admit any into the papacy, without the consent of the German emperors; as we have learned out of the Vatican records. But Clement the second being dead, the college of cardinals sent ambassadors unto the emperor to appoint whom he thought good to be pope, who appointed Pepon, afterwards called Damasus the second; who dead, the clergy again sent ambassadors unto the emperor, for the creating of a new pope.
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>pic 1, Louis XIV receiving keys to Strasbourg >pic in Versailles, cities captured, including Strasbourg >other pics in Versailles war room ceiling You can view it here. http://www.galeriedesglaces-versailles.fr/html/11/collection/guerre.html
>Minerva personifies the Royal Wisdom which is also at the origin of the project of the royal hotel of the Invalides. Around 1670, Louis XIV had decided to build a hotel that would house officers wounded in service. The edict of establishment of the hotel dates from April 1674, but the medal of the History of the king which was struck for its inauguration bears the date of 1675. This medal includes a cavalier view of the building quite close to the painting in the Hall of Mirrors (only the foreground differs). Let us add that the architectural plan is a traditional attribute of Magnificence which is undoubtedly also mentioned here: the word is even used in the text of the Mercure galant of December 1684.
>The king is painted on his throne, his feet resting on a red cushion; his right hand rests on the government tiller and at the same time points to the Harpyes being chased by Minerva; he holds in his left hand the golden key of the casket of the royal treasure which he hands to Fidélité (this key was added by Charles Le Brun at the very last moment: it does not appear in the box kept at the Musée du Louvre, inv. 29950). Fidelity shows the sovereign the books of accounts; suppliant France is on its knees before him; the king is dressed in armor and the fleurdelysé blue mantle. François Charpentier (1684) sums up the subject by writing: "the care of finances has always occupied the greatest princes, who by this means make themselves formidable to their enemies, and put themselves in a position to relieve their subjects". >France is represented kneeling at the feet of the king: she wears the closed crown, holds the scepter in her left hand and is dressed in the fleurdelysé blue mantle; it begs the sovereign to remedy the abuses committed in the field of finance; it is the “partisans”, that is to say the financiers responsible for collecting taxes, who are particularly targeted (they are symbolized by the Harpyes painted just behind France: in the box preparing the composition [Louvre, inv. 29950], the Harpyes attacked France directly); Gérard Sabatier (1999) indicated the relation of this composition with an anonymous engraving of October 21, 1624: France demands justice from the king against the financiers >The Piety of Louis XIV is represented by a winged young woman with a flame on the top of her head, who holds a cornucopia and distributes bread to the people. The attributes are consistent with the allegory of Piety in Iconologiaby Cesare Ripa: the flame on the top of the head signifies that "the spirit is ablaze with the love of God, the more it is exercised in Piety, which naturally aspires to heavenly things"; the cornucopia means that "whenever it is a question of doing works of piety, we must not take into account worldly riches but liberally assist those whom we know to be in need". This is what Louis XIV did by distributing wheat to the people who lacked it because of a bad harvest during the summer of 1662, which was called the “crisis of the advent”. The subject was the subject of a medal entitled: FAMES PIETATE PRINCIPIS SUBLEVATA MDCLXII (France preserved from famine by the piety of the prince in 1662).
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"My heart leads me in doing excellent things for Seti I. I will cause it to be said forever and ever: 'It was his son, who made his name live.' May my father, Osiris, favor me with the long life of his son, Horus, according as I do that which he did; I do excellent things, as he did excellent things, for him who begat me."
Got to say, aside from when they had that Corsican upstart as Emperor, French military prowess has gone completely downhill ever since they became a Republic. If we restored the French monarchy do you think France would become a great military power again?
>>3138 Yes, but I doubt there will be any restoration, even if a monarchy formed in France. My hunch is, that if there's ever going to a Monarch, he certainly isn't going to wear a crown.
>>3141 Considering the state of modern degeneracy, any monarch would likely have to wear a strap-on.
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>>3142 I find that royalism itself is a taboo. Like they say it was for the Romans. And that it's like a dead branch, and dead tree trunk, easily being struck off. Neither do royalists or monarchists themselves genuinely believe in royalism or any monarchist ideals... I've seen communists who would probably make better monarchists, because they sincerely believe in their leaders and their cause. The best we have are anarchists and tradcaths who are left crying over spilled milk (i.e. the Reformation). And no crown will be worn because 1. it's terrible politically -- comes packaged with these loaded ideas and none of them really count for much. I don't see anyone rushing to put a crown on only to be a rubber stamp or get called a tyrant the moment he does anything. 2. royalist / monarchist supporters are useless and lousy. 3. Depending on whether Christianity returns to relevance or not, the old aesthetic of royalism is unlikely to come back -- those were attached to Christianity or the royal dynasties. 4. Crowns themselves are no longer a good symbol. Even royalists themselves will think you're less capable of governing if you put on a crown (because like I said, most don't believe any royal even should govern or are true aristocrats). I've seen Internet monarchists show more passion and loyalty to the idea of Donald Trump getting elected or fascism. Any return to Monarchy or royalism will likely look like North Korea or appear different from what anons here anticipate.
>>3143 It has been demonstrated time and again that the average pleb will gladly liberties and freedoms for strong and stable leadership. Just look at Napoleon in Gaul, Franco in Iberia, Hitler in Germania, Erdogan in Anataloia, Putin in Ruthenia. A gradual return to a total monarchy situation would not be that hard to pull off as the people all secretly demand it.
>>3144 I don't doubt that there could potentially be a return to Monarchy, but our conventions today of royalism or royal monarchy, let alone restorations? I strongly doubt. Let me put this into proper context: I have known monarchists who have tried to assist a restoration effort, but only found that said royals involved only cared to be anonymous and getting rich. That's why I say, that any return to Monarchy will unlikely be wearing crowns (unless it be a restoration of an older royalty).
>>3146 As for constitutionalism, while the majority of royalists fall into the constitutionalist camp, I don't believe the hype that constitutionalism is still the hot stuff in the 21st century. WW1 + the decline of the British Empire says that constitutional monarchy has become old-fashioned and like a relic of the Victorian era. While restorationists have the benefit of the doubt that if there were a restored dynasty, they would be constitutionalist, it isn't so likely there will restorations. Constitutionalism has the status quo, but nothing more -- various political ideologies still take the field. And there's a leniency more towards being a republic than returning to being a kingdom as far as constitutionalism goes... so the most limited monarchs you'll be seeing are non-royal heads of state like presidents or prime ministers. It is like Pepin the Short & Mayor of the Palace, except instead of usurping the Kingdom after overthrowing a figurehead, they stay put.
>>3146 Monarchs aren't made, they're chosen by God (and I don't necessarily mean this in the Christian way). We are not going to see a restoration by voting for it to happen, the concept of electing a republic into a monarchy is absurd. That being said, I doubt restorations as such will happen. Returns to monarchy, certainly. But the involvement of many members of the old aristocracy seems unlikely. The surviving constitutional monarchies have a fairly strong association between the (powerless) monarch and the republican-style government. Any failing of the latter is likely to reflect on the former, so them using a failing republic to leverage themselves back into power is likely to fail. As for countries where the aristocracy got pushed out completely: They've been private citizens for a century. I'm as nostalgic for the Habsburgs as the next man, but the reality is that many, though not all, of the old aristocracy got corrupted by the world (and I can say this from personal experience) over the century of them being private citizens in a rapidly degenerating culture. What we're likely to see (and what Irlmaier, among others, prophesied) is a complete meltdown of government at some point, which is inevitable due to the many failings of republics as a concept, coupled with/caused by a larger surrounding crisis, and a leader appearing in that moment, who fixes things up locally, which causes men to flock to him, which the leader then uses to bring order back to more of the lands. In that case, nobody is going to object to a crown either, because they were just saved from starvation, marauding barbarians, and general chaos by this new monarch. Most will agree that he is better than them, for he will have proven it a hundred times over. New monarchies, and new aristocracies will arise in time. It is as inevitable as the sun rising in the morning.
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>>3148 >New monarchies, and new aristocracies will arise in time This is what irks me. Royalists today, don't even believe the Monarch is a true aristocrat. They refer to the Nobility as the aristocracy, but what happened to Darius in the Herodotus Debate, who said that... THE MONARCH WAS OUR BEST MAN! No royalist believes a Monarch is the true aristocrat, like the Herodotus Debate. Aristocrat meaning rule of the best, not the few. Like Bodin said, it is more for Monarchy, that the Monarch is the sole Aristocrat. I know, that I come from an absolutist hinge, that we should ultimately revere the Monarch above all else, rather than the nobility (as traditionalists and royalists are fond of), but how the royalists use the term aristocrat exclusive from Monarch is another proof that they don't believe Monarchy is worthy of being true aristocracy and are convinced by Otanes or Megabyzus rather than Darius. >What we're likely to see (and what Irlmaier, among others, prophesied) is a complete meltdown of government at some point It seems like wishful thinking. We'll end up like any other group, like leftists who say that revolution will inevitably happen, or natsocs or libertarians thinking a collapse is coming. >and a leader appearing in that moment That is part of the problem, anon. We are sheep without a shepherd.
The whole notion of pre-eminence or majesty of Monarchy is dead among royalists. And the royalist ideals concerning Monarchy, like Bodin said, that the true image of a commonwealth is a family or household well ordered, is dead. There is that familial spirit or patriotism concerning Royal Monarchy... I get irked at tradcath Jacobites for the same reason, that while they claim to care about royalism, they only care about restoring Catholicism and said so about James II (and especially irked with them who cling to monarchomachist theories from the Wars of Religion), but not the Cavalier cause and as it was related to Charles I. (Royalism, that meant the esteemed political ideals of royal monarchy, as talked about a kingdom being a great family, or the extraordinary nature of the person of the prince, where one man is sovereign, is dead). That is dead to most people in royalist circles. When I said that communists would make better monarchists, I sincerely meant it. They don't talk about killing their leaders, because they believed in them. Even the idea of the Monarch being a helmsman or pilot, they have with Mao (another sign that they believe a person is very capable). Even in North Korea, I could feel sympathy, because like Bodin said, "The true image of a Commonwealth is a family/household well ordered" -- they're the only state that really believes that ideal, that I felt was the soul of royalism (and no longer believed by any royalists, that the royal government prevailed because they were of the same blood and suckled with the same milk). What about the idea that Monarchy is a household under one head? North Korea sees that in the WPK, Kim Jong Un is the Leader (like a Shepherd is a Leader) and the party is like a house under one head, and esteem him as a teacher and source of wisdom (something royalists don't see).
>>3149 Personally, I'd very much count the monarch as above the nobility/aristocracy. I'm a follower of Evola, the monarch to me is -literally- a god on earth. Aristocrats are the best men... but they are not gods. However, absolutism (as practiced, not as the name implies) does not follow from that. The monarch gives out fiefs which are then governed by lords. These then hand parts of the land to lower nobility and so on until you've got peasant families getting their strip of land. The monarch is the father of the country in a literal sense, like the father of a family. Much like older brothers are set to watch over younger siblings, the nobility is set to watch the masses. The father meanwhile, has more important things that concern him. As above, so below. The entire structure repeats from palaces right into peasant huts and through this, the monarch allows even the meanest peasant participation in the Divine, which he embodies in a literal sense. A monarchy is an earthly reproduction of Heaven. Much like God has his angels, so does the monarch have his nobility. A feudal system does not imply that the monarch becomes merely the first among equals.
Even communists have a kind of reverence for monarchist ideals. For example, Aquinas here talks about the Monarch being a helmsman. >>3151 >However, absolutism (as practiced, not as the name implies) does not follow from that. The monarch gives out fiefs which are then governed by lords. Yes, it does, but the Monarch is central to the system and governs. What is peddled is that Absolutism is more towards meritocracy than hereditary nobles, but even in the Middle Ages the Monarch had officials who would manage the household and work for the service of the country. >Much like older brothers are set to watch over younger siblings The Father raises his sons, not the brother of said son. >The father meanwhile, has more important things that concern him It is not beneath the Monarch to be political. Monarchy is a political form of government. Feudfags value feudalism more than Monarchy. >Much like God has his angels, so does the monarch have his nobility. But the Monarch has supreme authority, and we tend to revere God more than angels (who are like a footnote in comparison). Feudfags seem to me to only care about becoming nobles than the grand estate of Monarchy, where one man rules supreme, and only associate the name of Monarchy / Royalism with the ideal of nobles. But forget that Monarchy goes beyond royalism, but even a statesman if he be one person is like a monarch (although mostly limited).
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It's typical for them to shill for an Oligarchy, and take the focus away from Monarchy, like I warned about feudfags. Here you go talking about the brother governing over children rather than the Father. This is your mind on feudfaggotry, where you drop the pre-eminence of Monarchy and simp for nobles and anarcho-capitalist ideals of decentralization rather than understanding the centrality of Monarchy, that has the relationship of the general to particular. Outright crypto-oligarchy faggotry, that's what feudalfaggotry has become. My God, would it kill them to stop giving lipservice to the nobility and pay heed to Monarchist ideals, where one ruler is supreme and governs. Like Homer says, "Each one gives law to his children and to his wives." Or, "Let there be one ruler, one king!" rather than advocating petty kingdoms. The Monarch is lord of all goods. He does give out land from an absolutist point of view. He even has an administration that could concern the nobility, but the Monarch is seen as political and has the relationship of general to particular... he is not a limited monarch chosen by the nobility to be like a particular to general.
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I know what the traditionalists are thinking, when I talk about the pre-eminence of Monarchy and absolutism. Like always, they equate everything with Catholicism... So no doubt you're thinking I take the nobles like the clergy, and advocate Protestant ideas that we should focus directly on God rather than the clergy... Because everything revolves around Catholicism for them. (At least, I am guessing, with trads you never know). Or NRx peddling HLvM (which again, they're borrowing from nobles who opposed these ideals in the past like Alexander de Tocqueville and the like). Give me a break. When I talk about the pre-eminence of Monarchy, it goes beyond these petty denominational disputes, but that Monarchy itself is a unique system that puts one man in focus, not the nobility or his administrators, but he himself is believed to govern the whole people. Which sounds radical, but Monarchy in that context is understood that one man leads them.
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I would kill for a monarchist who isn't a total feudfag (that sucks of the nobles and thinks of himself as a wine-sipping noble) or a constitutionalist (that heavily shills the prime minister), but someone who genuinely believes that the Monarch has a pre-eminence.
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>>3155 I am so sick of the trad types who talk about politics like poorman's theology and conflate everything with Catholicism. Would kill to have an anon who believes in the idea of Monarchy rather than constantly shilling for a noble oligarchy and snipping about one-man rulers as dictators. If only we could look at it in its proper political context. I understand well, that the Monarch has servants and a nobility, but they always sidestep the Monarch and abandon those Monarchist ideals, because they have taken heed to some trad autism related to >>3155 what I said here. As I have argued with those who have ulterior motives, whether it be ancaps who prioritize the nobility because they equate Monarch = centralization or statism interfering with the free market, or catholics who view it as a shade of protestantism (a narrative I'm SICK and ill of constantly being equated to everything) with the nobility being the political equivalent of the clergy... rather than respecting Monarchy itself as a form of state and understanding that the crucial underpinning is the one man rules, they come up with these bogus equations that interfere with this ideal of pre-eminence. Personally, I think we need a political monarchy and could care less for having a nobility or bloating about a meritocracy. I think we need one man to lead us, like it was initially said, and while I understand the place of those who work for him (like I said about the Disciples of Christ), it doesn't mean that the Monarch doesn't have "anything important to do with it". Blegh, we need a Monarch to be a ruler where the oligarchist tendency has caused problems -- their constant stagnation and political parties, and their political hampering, and trivalities, are something only a MONARCH could resolve, not the nobles, and to me it is IMPORTANT that the Monarch be involved with the affairs of state and his country, and would be believed as a true leader who has wisdom -- not only because of his administrations -- but because he himself devised that. This is all so trite to me. If only we could have monarkiddies that believed in a grand monarchy rather than this conceit of the nobility, constantly being faggots about it, and not adhering the the politics concerned with Monarchist ideal as I stated.
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A father who trusts his son's brother to look after his sons and go drink coffee all day is an irresponsible father. That is a terrible outline. I much prefer Homer who speaks of Monarchy in the sense that "each one gives law to his children and his wives". Of course, a father could appoint a son's brother or hire a babysitter, but ultimately it is the father who governs and watches over them. If we take the father out of the picture, it is no longer concerning Monarchy. If we think of it as this brotherhood and fraternity, where brothers themselves are only assembled, then it is an Oligarchy, the rule of a few men, rather than the rule of one man. If this brotherhood appoints one of their brothers to preside over their brotherly meetings, it is a limited monarchy in a state oligarchical. It doesn't matter whether the Monarch has nobles or statesmen, imo. The state itself is reproduced, like a household, from families. While the idea of nobles sounds better because we think of established families, but it really makes no difference to me, because as Plato states, that a king, a statesman, a dictator, and a despot pretty much have the same despotic expertise. The state itself and any administrators always themselves come from a family. What matters is whether they adhere to a state monarchical and carry what their father had directed themselves, rather than divide into another entity or state oligarchical... I could care less for having a clique of nobles in this instance, because if we have the monarch as best man who is reproduced, he needs assured officials whose loyalty are to him and interchangeable, to branch out... he could have nobles too, as honorary -- it isn't exclusive to the idea of meritocracy, but I personally see nothing wrong with the Monarch having state officials so demonized, that are men of learning chosen for this end. We should not forget, that by law and by the form of state itself, the Monarch is considered to be the one who governs in Monarchy -- regardless of how many statesmen or nobles serve him. The focus is never detached from the Monarch. And this Monarchy is a political system, that the entire city is like a great household, under the watchfulness of their father (and not only the brothers). We should not confuse brothers, simply because they are appointed, to be sovereign or that the father is now insignificant and the brother of his son take pre-eminence. That sounds ridiculous to me... But no less, I doubt it sounds incredulous to most people, when they say "one man cannot rule alone" and make those cases, quite bitterly against the state of monarchy, and deny this pre-eminence. Of course, the sovereign monarch has a government, but I won't deny a Monarch rules simply because a MASTER has SLAVES carrying out his bidding or that the FATHER sometimes has his SONS -- doesn't mean the sons are now presumed superior to the father or the slaves to their master.
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>>3151 Now, I understand, that you don't consider the monarch one among equals, but that's typically what every feudfag advocates, whereas it is the absolutists who stay the Monarch has the relationship of general to particular. It is usually the feudfags who view the Monarch as just another noble and nothing especial. They only care for the idea that they are mini monarchs, rather than a pre-eminent monarch... which reverts back to the problem of petty kings, that Caligula said, "let there be one ruler, one king" because the states became more oligarchical and being a king was no longer something special. The absolutist view has nothing against the idea of this being reproduced, and despite the bad press -- not even against a nobility (although I confess, I have had enough of tradfags gloating about the nobility like they are oligarchyfags). The Commonwealth is seem in the context of families. If feudfags had their way, they would put it as if the Disciples of Christ should be every barrier to Christ. They like the idea of mini-monarchs more than a supreme and grand monarchy, which leads inevitably to oligarchical states. Just like how a Diarchy could be made of two kings, but nevertheless be an oligarchy (because Monarchy is one ruler, not two rulers). If you look at these screencaps related, you see all the problems with feudfags on full display and where most of them depart from the idea of Monarchy. It no longer becomes the idea of a supreme father or monarch over the state, but the entitled nobles and their cliques.
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I would plead with you to re-consider being a feudboy, but I doubt you'll heed my words for whatever motives... Just look at this feudfaggotry. I would ask you to re-consider it, where you began to think of a brother rather than a father, sounds like a big departure from the monarchist ideal (which has NEVER once in any political treatise I know, talked about brotherly rule or let alone mentioned it, compared to the pre-eminence of a Father). That is alien to a monarchist point of view, which has always talked primarily about the Father as supreme over his children in general.
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To drive my point home, let me give you a few classic examples. Example #1, too many kings can ruin an army-mob rule! Let there be ONE commander, ONE master only Whatever ONE man needs to lead his lead his people well ^Homer doesn't even bring up any brother, but explicitly talks about a Monarch leading his people. This is the same exact thing that feudfags today SCOFF at or call a despotic dictatorship. 2nd screencap, Homer calls Zeus Father of the Gods, and talks about the relationship between Father and Son (which is sovereign and subject), doesn't even bring up a brother. But the pre-eminence of the Father. All well before Protestantism this is understood. But the supreme state of Monarchy and it explicitly being the rule of one person. And whenever we hear about any brothers, it's always the case of a Diarchy, where inevitably one kills the other -- Cain and Abel, Romulus and Remus, and so forth. That's the relationship between the oligarchs and people, and their political parties, constantly wanting to kill each other... Whereas like Hesiod says, the Monarch soothes with soft words and stops this.
The last thing I should add about feudfags: They always present themselves as a 3rd option between absolutism and constitutionalism, but truthfully said -- it was always only between absolutism and constitutionalism, or another form (for them, oligarchy). The feudfag is a constitutionalist or oligarchyfag at heart. Usually they appeal to a more antiquated constitutionalism. There is only an absolutist or constitutionalist view of Monarchy, imo. You are either for the mixed constitutional or the pre-eminent state of Monarchy as sovereign. It's either the Monarchy that has the relationship of the general to the particular or the Monarchy that has the relationship of the particular to the general. They are kidding themselves if they think "feudalism" is a whole other form of Monarchy. It's not.
>I'm angry, angry about Feudalism Good read. I just want Grace OC of her ranting about it now.

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>Athens was a true democracy, and in Plato's critique of it, he advocated form of Republic. A mixture of a monarchy and democracy, a combination of bottom up voting and top down representation. Jean Bodin & absolutists denied a mixed form. Instead they said that there were 3 forms. "All the ancients agree that there are at least three types of commonwealth. Some have added a fourth composed of a mixture of the other three. Plato added a fourth type, or rule of the wise. But this, properly speaking, is only the purest form that aristocracy can take. He did not accept a mixed state as a fourth type. Aristotle accepted both Plato's fourth type and the mixed state, making five in all. Polybius distinguished seven, three good, three bad, and one composed of a mixture of the three good. Dionysius Halicarnassus only admitted four, the three pure types, and a mixture of them. Cicero, and following his example, Sir Thomas More in his Commonwealth, Contarini, Machiavelli, and many others have held the same opinion. This view has the dignity of antiquity. It was not new when propounded by Polybius, who is generally credited with its invention, nor by Aristotle. It goes back four hundred years earlier to Herodotus. He said that many thought the mixed was the best type, but for his part he thought there were only three types, and all others were imperfect forms. I should have been convinced by the authority of such great names, but that reason and common sense compels me to hold the opposing view." -Jean Bodin There is a false trend identifying Absolutism as the ideology of the Middle Ages. Because Constitutionalism was for the Middle Ages & Renaissance the predominate ideology, and like Bodin said, had the leverage and authority of antiquity. There was always in royalist circles a dialogue between constitutionalism and absolutism, before absolutism was formally manifest as a political ideology in the later half of the 1500s, but much more obscure… wherever there was any longing for a pre-eminence of Monarchy or as talked about in the Herodotus debate (that constitutionalists view as obsolete, imo). Bodin said Plato had 4 regimes (and I know Plato has 5, but I think he discounted the tyranny or the rule of the wise), but overall only thought 3 regimes (since rule of the wise is a pure aristocracy from his pov). Denied that he had a mixed… but for Rome, he says, "But here might some man object, That the Senat of Rome had power to make laws, & that the more part of the greatest affairs of estate, in peace or war, were in the power of the Roman Senat to determine of. But what the authority of the Senat is, or ought to be in every Commonweal, we shall in due place declare. But by the way to answer that it is objected, I say, that the Senat of Rome, from the expulsion of the kings, until the time of the emperors had never power to make law, but only certain decrees and ordinances: which were not in force past a year, wherewith for all that the common people were not bound, and so much less the whole body and estate of the people. Wherein many are deceived and especially Conan, who says, That the Senat had power to make a perpetual law: for Dionysius Halycarnasseus, who had diligently read the Commentaries of Marcus Varro, writes, That the decrees of the Senat had not any force, if they were not by the people confirmed: and albeit that they were so confirmed, yet if they were not published in form of a law, they then had force but for one year. No more than the city of Athens, where the decrees of the Senat were but annuall, as says Demosthenes in the Oration which he made against Aristocrates: and if it were a matter of importance, it was referred unto the people to dispose thereof as they thought good: which Anacharsis the philosopher seeing merrily said, The wise and grave propound matters at Athens, and fools and mad men resolve thereof. And so the Senat in Rome did but consult, but the people command: For so Livy oft times says, Senatus decreuit, populus tussit, The Senat hath decreed, and the people commanded. Yet true it is, that the magistrates, and namely the Tribunes, oft times suffered the decrees of the Senat, in a manner to have the force of laws, if the matter seemed not to impair the power of the people, or to be prejudicial unto the majesty of the estates in general." -Jean Bodin And says, at the last line, "Majesty in the people in general" which matters – because like I said before, sovereignty is seen as having the authority of general to particular. Bodin says that majesty is sovereignty. "Wherefore let us firmly set down and resolve there are but three forms of Commonweals, and no more, and those simple also, and without any confused mixture of the with another, albiet that the government be sometimes contrary to the state. As a Monarchy is contrary to a Democracy or popular estate; and yet nevertheless the sovereignty may be in one only prince, who may popularly govern his estate, as I have before said; and yet it shall not be for that a confusion of the popular estate with a Monarchy, which are states of themselves incompatible, but is well (as it were) combining of a Monarchy with a popular government, the most assured Monarchy that is." -Jean Bodin
>>3164 And while Bodin did say, that the mixed form has the dignity of antiquity, he did try to snatch Herodotus and Plato.
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>>3151 >Aristocrats are the best men... but they are not gods There are two views of this. There's the ceremonialist view (that is called sacred) and the absolutist view (that is called divine) and generally it interprets the view of the pre-eminent man who is said to be "not part of a state" -- for the ceremonialist view, it's that "he isn't part of a state, because he's a god and has no concerns with the affairs of men" view or the other view that "he is no part of a state, he IS the state!" view that is called divine and does partake in the political. While the pre-eminence is beyond meritocracy, the Monarch is still viewed as the very best man as in the Herodotus Debate. It was Darius who argued on behalf of Monarchy, and I will quote him. "For the coice lying between these three, and each of them, democracy, oligarchy and monarchy being supposed to be the best of its kind, I hold that Monarchy is by far the most excellent. Nothing can be found better than the rule of the one best man; his judgment being like to himself, he will govern the multitude with perfect wisdom, and best conceal plans made for the defeat of enemies... He therefore becomes the people's idol, and being their idol is made their monarch." I hold that the ceremonialist view here is apolitical, and doesn't mean much for the political state of Monarchy, but rather becomes something else. Imo, an apolitical royal is no different than a deposed ruler. Except that the other sometimes keeps his life. The secret of the apolitical royal's survival is he doesn't get involved in politic... And while ceremonialists will tout that this is why apolitical royalty is the best, I don't think it really counts, because like I said -- there is no difference between an apolitical royal and a deposed royal. Even deposed royals like Pu Yi later become symbols (like he was for Mao, a symbol of communism's defeat of imperialism) and proletarian triumph. To further elaborate why I discredit it as something to boast about, let me give an example. Imagine that you have contestants in a race. The loser first is defeated, but inevitably each contestant in the race fails. The runner who ran the furthest gets the most honor... but at the last moment, a non-contestant walks onto the ring from the audience and says, "I won the race!" without even running. I would respect the loser, even though he didn't even run that much further, than a non-contestant who claimed victory. That's how I feel about the ceremonialist take about longevity -- to that I add, I generally admire political monarchy for its accomplishments, even if it be a short span, but an apolitical royalty I generally only respect by the feats and culture of the people (since that's what they are regarded to be a symbol of) or whatever religion. They might have the honor and esteem of the state and culture, but to be an apolitical royalty doesn't really take the risk or ambition involved than any other citizen who is ruled. From my point of view, a pre-eminent & political monarchy is definitely needed.
>>3166 The ceremonialist view takes royalty to be like a collectible, imo, that shouldn't be opened and pushed away to a corner and hidden from the sight of everyone. Sacredness in what cannot be done. Whereas the divine point of view stresses the awe and power of the pre-eminent Monarch on Earth, and his ability to govern the people, like it was for Ramses II. He is very much considered the best (as a superior who has the relationship of general to particular) and pre-eminent while being a political ruler. It isn't for no reason that Hobbes called the Leviathan to be a Mortal God. The political state of Monarchy does resemble a supreme command on Earth, that is the very best like it was stated by Darius in the Herodotus Debate.
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The more I think about this idea of brotherly rather than fatherly rule, the more subversive I find it. A brother isn't always regarded as an elder. As a brother could be the same age as his sibling. So it doesn't confer to the idea of being a natural superior, unless he was older... but the father is naturally a superior over all his sons and always older. This introduction of the brother than a father gives me the opposite idea, that I think you were hoping for, rather than being hierarchical, it sounds more egalitarian. The only other examples I can think about is the Orwellian "Big Brother", but I'm sure even that counts. As they talk about fraternity and being brothers, it's akin to how feminists call each other sisters.
>>3168 A brother is a rival. Never forget that.
>>3168 >>3172 not saying there's anything wrong with your idea, but maybe you just had shit brothers
>>3173 It is the natural order of things. Siblings are always natural rivals. Sisters though are worse.
A royal rule is a personal rule. That is why they abuse the term "Cult of Personality". The King is a mirror to his people, and the all people aspire towards a person like a great avatar. The Monarch is personal as they follow him like a shepherd, and his face gives a familial resemblance to them. So monarchical rule is personal like a shepherd who leads his flock with his person. The charm of princes has the same mesmerizing effect. That's why it is said, "When the government is personal, the ruler is a king." That is why I say, A people desire a person
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>>3179 This I explained in the "personal rule" subsection. And why it is the person of the king, not a crown, that defines Monarchy for me. As not all monarchy even has a crown to wear.
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"The Household / Family well ordered is the true image of the Commonwealth." -Jean Bodin "My old home the Monarchy, alone, was a great mansion with many doors and many chambers, for every condition of men." -Joseph Roth "Socialism is the phantastic younger brother of Despotism, which it wants to inherit. Socialism wants to have the fullness of state force which before only existed in Despotism." -Friedrich Nietzche "A family being nothing else but a small Kingdom, wherein the paterfamilias had Regal power… and a Kingdom being nothing else but a great family." -Gryffith Williams "For as household management is the kingly rule of a house, so kingly rule is the household management of a city, or of a nation, or of many nations." -Aristotle "The rule of a household is a monarchy, for every house is under one head." -Aristotle "Visitor: Well then, surely there won't be any difference, so far as ruling is concerned, between the character of a great household, on the one hand, and the bulk of a small city on the other? – Young Socrates: None. – It's clear that there is one sort of expert knowledge concerned with all these things; whether someone gives this the name of kingship, or statesmanship, or household management, let's not pick any quarrel with him." -Plato "So that Aristotle following Xenophon, seems to me without any probable cause, to have divided the Economical government from the Political, and a City from a Family; which can no otherwise be done, than if we should pull the members from the body; or go about to build a City without houses… Wherefore as a family well and wisely ordered, is the true image of a City, and the domestical government, in sort, like unto the sovereignty in a Commonwealth: so also is the manner of the government of a house or family, the true model for the government of a Commonwealth… And whilest every particular member of the body does his duty, we live in good and perfect health; so also where every family is kept in order, the whole city shall be well and peaceably governed." -Jean Bodin
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>>3203 >who said it better none of them lmao
Do you think that Grace bathes in ass milk like sovereigns of old?
>>3203 this pic is also related to those screencaps
>>3216 What? Like Cleopatra? Read my Egyptian series
>>3231 Grace would need a huge nose to be like Cleopatra.
>The beast behind the banner is not concerned with life, liberty or happiness, is in fact their greatest enemy. Hobbes has already published his Leviathan, thanks to which the beast does not only know itself by name, but also possesses a self-consciousness unavailable to Churchmen or to Lope de Aguirre. The beast knows that it cannot speak in its own name without losing the confidence of its human entrails. It knows that it must speak in terms of Life, Liberty and Happiness, and it acquires unprecedented eloquence in the use of such terms. >The post-Hobbesian artificial beast becomes conscious of itself as Leviathan and not as Temple or Heavenly Empire or Vicarate of Christ, and it simultaneously begins to suspect its own frailty, its impermanence. The beast knows itself to be a machine, and it knows that machines break down, decompose, and may even destroy themselves. A frantic search for perpetual motion machines yields no assurance to counter the suspicions, and the beast has no choice but to project itself into realms or beings which are not machines. >Long reconciled to spreading the mere forms of Catholicism over realms that resist the substance, Churchmen hurl themselves against the Enlightenment’s forms, against its language. The near-sighted Churchmen fail to notice that the Illuminists and Masons who reject the Catholic language retain the substance of Catholicism, and have in fact performed the feat of identifying that substance with the body of the dominant beast, something the Church has never succeeded in doing. >Blinded by the surface of their words, the Churchmen fail to notice that Creation and Machine mean the same thing, that both presuppose a Maker, an Artificer. They fail to notice that the Illuminists are more consistent monotheists than the Catholics ever were. They fail to notice that Newton’s Cosmic Mathematician, the Great Artificer who sets the vast clocks in motion on mathematical-physical principles accessible to Newton’s mathematical-physical principles accessible to Newton’s mathematical-mechanical mind, is none other than Lugalzaggizi the King of Kings as well as Optimus Maximus the god of armored legions. >Rather than hailing the rise of the Messiah of the Last Days and thereby placing themselves in the beast’s brightly lit cockpit, the langorous Catholics let themselves fall into the beast’s shadow, and Catholicism, the gate and cradle of the Enlightenment, is henceforth known as obscurantism. >The Western Europeans know that they left the state of nature, but they do not yet want to know they’ve entered the entrails of Leviathan. Human beings who unabashedly affirm themselves as segments of an artificial worm, as springs and wheels, will not appear in the West until several generations later, when contemporaries of the English scribe Hobbes will institute the worship of Leviathan itself, raw and unadorned. >Although the Church, with its Roman commitment and its Maximizing deity, already carries mor than a mere seed of Leviathan-worship, the later worm-worshippers will have to break with the Church to institute their novelty. This is because the Church cannot rid itself of the baggage that came to it from the anti-Roman crisis cult. >The Popes are precursors of Hobbes. They know that an operating Leviathan needs a single head. Heaven is ruled by a single king. As in heaven, so on earth. >The problem is that the operating Leviathan has its head in Byzantium, and the Popes’ own world is overrun by numerous violent war chieftains and their mounted Knights. The Byzantine Leviathan is unacceptable because it has no office for a supreme Potifex Maximus, at least none for the saints in Rome. >The third Emperor, Caligula, already draws all the conclusions that follow from this: the head, totally disconnected from its innards and even from its limbs, bonded neither to nature nor to people nor even to the rest of its machine, is free to do whatever it wills, however unnatural inhuman or irrational. Only the murder of Caligula by his bodyguards saves the shell from shattering to pieces. >Nero, the fifth, stretches the artificial freedom of the Prince even further. We’re told he was a decent, even a gifted person before his accession. Be that as it may, Nero quickly sees what Caligula had seen earlier: the loosened head of Leviathan has access to an artificial freedom not available to any living beings. All others are free within the bounds set by nature; they are free when they are constrained by no other bounds. The Roman Emperor is constrained by no bounds whatever, not even the bounds of his own character, for as Emperor he is as characterless as Optimus Maximus. He can be totally arbitrary; he can do anything as well as the opposite, and if he keeps his eye on his bodyguards, no one and nothing can stop him. He can murder his own mother and deify his girl friend Sabina Poppaea. He can purge, torture and kill by a mere turn of the wrist. He can experience himself as Pallas Athena and Zeus by giving Greeks their freedom one moment and taking it away the next. He can even experience the joy of the resistors by setting fire to Rome and watching it burn. He can fly as freely as the visionary of the ancient community, but unlike the visionary, who returned to his body and shared his experience, Nero keeps on hovering over nature and humanity and has nothing to share but their doom. >We will have to keep reminding ourselves that the landed worm is a coherent and efficient entity only in the wishful thinking of a Hobbes. Continual decomposition is the normal state of artificial worms in the field. The human beings reduced to springs and wheels never cease to resist this reduction. The beast’s military campaigns against external as well as internal resisters, namely its attempts to halt the decomposition, are in fact the stuff of His-story. >Pre-state communities were gatherings of living but mortal individuals. All their secrets and all their ways were passed on directly, by word of mouth. If the keeper of important uncommunicated secrets died, her secrets died with her. Enmities and grudges died with their holders. The visions and the ways were as varied as the individuals who experienced and practiced them; that’s why there was such a richness. But the visions and ways were as mortal as the people. Mortality is an inseparable part of Life: it is Life’s end. >We will keep projecting modern institutions into the state of nature. There were no institutions in the state of nature. >Institutions are impersonal and immortal. They share this immortality with no living beings under the sun. Of course they are not living beings. They are segments of a carcass. Institutions are not a part of Life but a part of Death. And Death cannot die. > Like the thinking Ensi, Hobbes will know that this artificial man has no life of its own, and he will ask, “may we not say, that all automata (engines that move by themselves by springs and wheels as doth a watch) have an artificial life?” >The Ensi cannot yet visualize a watch. The more advance Hobbes will no longer be able to visualize nature or human beings. He will ask “what is the heart, but a spring; and the nerves, but so many strings; and the joints, but so many wheels…?” In a world of watches, the Leviathan will not appear as strange to Hobbes as it appears to the Ensi. >Hobbes will know that Ur is no mere city. Ur is a State, maybe even the first State. And a state, Hobbes will say, is an “artificial animal.” It is something brand new, something neither Man nor Nature dreamt of. It is “that great Leviathan called a Commonwealth, or State, in Latin Civitas, which is but an artificial man.” https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/fredy-perlman-against-his-story-against-leviathan
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It's not whether there is a king, a statesman, a dictator, or a despot. But whether there is one king, one statesman, one dictator, or one despot, and whether this person has the relationship of the general to particular – or the relationship of particular to general.
>>2482 It is, but winning the arguments doesn't change anything. People aren't behaving according to logic. Even with all the right answers about how a fair community should operate, people are lazy and irresponsible. Commoners will default to letting the motivated and wealthy oligarchy have its way, no matter how corrupt it is, so long as the commoners can depend on the oligarchy to provide a mostly carefree existence. >>2483 It does more harm than good. That story is a twisted, one-off Black Mirror kind of scenario that instills deep resentment. It's tragic, but bringing ancient injustice (the trial of Jesus) into the argument distracts from the point (that dictatorship is not inherently bad). A more benign and relatable example: parents asking their kids what they want for dinner and the kids say candy. >>2775 >How to rehabilitate royal rule in the minds of the people That's unnecessary in the first place. See >>3148 >>2777 >you either trick them or force them >there is no other way That’s too cynical. Isn’t it the fundamental challenge of monarchy to not betray the confidence of the people? And since the monarch will someday die, to also raise a successor worthy of the same confidence? If the monarch delivers, it shouldn't really be called a trick. >>3148 >and a leader appearing in that moment, who fixes things up locally, which causes men to flock to him, which the leader then uses to bring order back to more of the lands. Very much this.
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If anyone would like to request a screen for the computer, I would make an edit.
>>3269 please? (人ゝд∩)
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>tfw /abdl/ is roleplaying with Grace now
>>3273 was muslim-kun just bait from /monarchy/ to get them lured in?
>>3274 It seems we may have underestimated Grace. The diaper-obsessed maniac herself must be playing 4D chess against /abdl/.
>>3275 We must at least be impressed by her cunning, and being able to send a muslim, of all people, to get baby-fied and infiltrate them
>>3275 She is becoming a diaper despot. If we don't stop her soon then all anons will turn into anime girls!
>>3278 W-we can't give into the logic of republicanism, Grace as queen rules by divine right! What are we to do?
>>3279 Call the one thing that all board tans fear the most! Their mom!
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>>3273 >mandatory diaper fetishism in the kingdom
He is the father taking care of all people He is the teacher giving wisdom Looking after the large family of the whole country He builds a paradise of the people
Normalcy to the UI has returned
>>3296 how do you get that flag
>>3307 just click on the "more" option above the reply button, you'll get options for flags
Homer, ancient monarchist saying: Too many kings can ruin an army-mob rule! Let there be one commander, one master only! Democratic People's Republic of Korea Children's Cartoon: So, the nine men on the boat were all steersmen Too many cooks spoil the broth As there's one guide in the flock, so there should be one steersman on the boat So, there should be one steersman on the boat. Internet R*yalists Today: Nooooooooooooooooooo, that's a DICTATORSHIP! It's the nobility and medieval LARP and how complicated you can make it -- it's not just one man >:(( monarchy is about whether there is a crown and glitter.... reign, not rule! ugh, i bet you hate democracy too and make a stereotype of our movement!
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Sadly, a basic definition has to be relentlessly hammered into minds with long, rusty nails. An uphill battle (like always): I point to Darius in the Herodotus Debate and Homer, ancient sources, and open a dictionary, and often with failure for something so simple.
>>3311 thank you
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A word on feudfags / neofeuds: If you see a feudfag, it's either, 1. Anarcho-capitalist / Ancap / Libertarian 2. Tradcath 3. mixture of tradcath and ancap Heed what I tell you, because for most cases this is true.
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>>3273 is this true? did we feed muslim-kun there to get converted into islamo-tan?
>>3327 im gonna be honest, i dont see the connection between lolberts and feudalists
>>3336 Don't take his word for granted. Absolutards have an obsession with stereotypes. Which is hardly a surprise, because they are living, breathing stereotypes themselves.
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>>3335 Maybe, if only to be hunted down by Ara Christ-Tan
>>3338 10/10 drawing right there, a shame if /abdl/ got their hands on it...
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>>3336 They're coming out of the woodwork as neofeuds or at least sympathetic to the idea. You just need to lurk around more. You'd have to be blind as a bat to not notice them. >>3337 There is always time to build palace. Royal rule is household rule, after all.
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I know I paint broad strokes with the brush. Even stereotypes sometimes have an ounce of truth to them. The only reason what I'm telling you isn't readily apparent is because most /liberty/ sneks slithered out of this board or are lurking under a rock somewhere. I won't deny how I exaggerate things to get a point across.
I heard that there was an Ara who dominates Grace. Is this true?
>>3347 There is no way for us or any bab in /abdl/ to confirm that, but I call bull. It is "Grace's" Palace, after all.. What can be greater than her?
>>3348 Her mom
>>3349 Oh my... has she ever been seen or depicted by drawfags before?
>>3350 We would have so many questions to ask. Like is Grace actually a trap considering how flat chested they are?
>>3351 Ive seen some art with her carrying some heavier boobs, so I'll go with that. I will not let Grace slip into the category of a trap, she is a good girl
>>3352 What if that pic was actually Mommy Grace when she was younger?
Actually >Original pics with Grace having mommy milkers is actually the mother of current Grace >She desperately wanted a daughter but ended up having a son >Despite this she raises her son as a Princess modelled after her This probably explains the inconsistent chest sizes unless we are getting Loli Grace?
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>>3351 Rumor had it on /abdl/ that Grace was actually a futa. >>3352 Pic related
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>>3355 I'm gonna masturbate to this tonight
>>3355 "She" was considered a trap first a long time ago.
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ANARCHY
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>>3352 >>3354 >>3355 This is so miraculous and strange. That I can only believe that you are an extreme liar. >>3355 >that pic Every day I ask myself Whether the PPH is worth it. /abdl/ should know, that the Grace is truly late adolescent or young adult. Grace isn't a mortal. She doesn't have any relatives. She is a monarchist girl, but whether Grace herself is royalty is dubious. >>3356 There should be a rule against this. If you're going to fap, why not >>3263 this? grace is not a milf >:(( >>3358 The /abdl/ diaperfags are Grace loyalists. They would never betray this Monarchy. This is a Monarchy. anarkiddies will be sent to /abdl/ to get spanked and diapered.
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>all this rabble-rousing about being flat-chested
>>3360 ikr? outright slander of her
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>>3351 >implying grace is flat
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Grace is not a milf.
I think Grace needs to dole out some discipline! What would be her preferred tool?
>>3365 paddle or bare hand, of course. After all, we know who we're dealing with: a bunch of big babies
>>3365 Cane or Birch. Grace has an English Schoolgirl vibe.
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the muslim-kun -> muslimah-chan transformation has finally happened
thank you jannies, for this spooky UI
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One, two, one, two, three, four! We march, we march to war! For our dear Mother Russia! For our Father, the Tsar!
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How do I type in spoilers into text?
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It's the sacred soil of Russia We must cling to, let me lead you No more hunger for our children Terror is gone, we will right all the wrongs Come now, let our freedom ring Feel the fire of freedom's power Come now, let the People sing Sing, sing, now the Peasant is a King! Storm the Palace, take now what should be yours Freedom lead us Into the Palace doors Come now, let our freedom ring Seize the day and steal the power! Come now, let the People sing Sing, sing, now the Peasant is the King!
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>>2676 "O he links his feelings with the people with the blood relationship" -World of Humane Affection "Nobody can cut our bloodline linked with him" -To the End of the Earth "Our ties to the General is as to our own flesh and blood." -Single-minded people
"And this is the reason why Hellenic states were originally governed by kings; …the kingly form of government prevailed because they were of the same blood [and suckled 'with the same milk']" -Aristotle, Politics
Q: What will it take for people to believe in Royal Monarchy? A: Firstly, the Monarch should be a source of Wisdom, like a Teacher; secondly, the Monarch should be a provider/caretaker, like a Father; thirdly, the Monarch should be a Protector, like a Soldier; fourthly, the Monarch should make the people believe there is a blood relation “of the same blood & suckled by the same milk” for the nation under a king, that king is kin, that the king is father of the people, that the palace is the center of political life, & a lifelong royal bond of King & Country, that is firmly political–"And this is the reason why Hellenic states were originally governed by kings; …the kingly form of government prevailed because they were of the same blood [and suckled 'with the same milk']" -Aristotle, Politics ; fifthly Pre-eminence of Monarchy & Majesty, being the whole in relation to the part, “I am the State.”. The state should be ordered like a political household under one ruler: “If we consider the household, whose end is to teach its members to live rightly, there is a need for one called the pater-familias, or for some one holding his place to direct and govern.” -Dante Alighieri “When the interests of mankind are at stake, they will obey with joy the man whom they believe to be wiser than themselves… You may see how the sick man will beg the doctor to tell him what he ought to do, how a whole ship's company will listen to the pilot, how travellers will cling to one who knows the way better, as they believe, than they do themselves. 'You would have me understand', said Cyrus, 'that the best way to secure obedience is to be thought wiser than those we rule?' 'Yes', said Cambyses, 'that is my belief.'” -Xenophon, Cyropaedia “None quicker, my lad, than this: wherever you wish to seem wise, be wise.” -Xenophon, Cyropaedia “Well, my son, it is plain that where learning is the road to wisdom, learn you must, as you learn your battalion-drill, but when it comes to matters which are not to be learnt by mortal men, nor foreseen by mortal minds, there you can only become wiser than others by communicating with the gods through the art of divination. But, always, whenever you know that a thing ought to be done, see that it is done, and done with care; for care, not carelessness, is the mark of the wise man.” -Xenophon, Cyropaedia “For the association of a father with his sons bears the form of monarchy, since the father cares for his children; and this is why Homer calls Zeus 'father'; it is the ideal of monarchy to be paternal rule.” -Aristotle (Comment: Take notice of “since the father cares for his children”, for caretaker/provider, being an ideal for Monarchy, like a father) “The rule of a father over his children is royal, for he rules by virtue both of love and of the respect due to age, exercising a kind of royal power. And therefore Homer has appropriately called Zeus 'father of Gods and men,' because he is the king of them all. For a king is the natural superiour of his subjects, but he should be of the same kin or kind with them, and such is the relation of elder and younger, of father and son.” -Aristotle Monarchists should also believe in the Pre-emince of Monarchy like stated for the Great Founder. “And yet he who first founded the state was the greatest of benefactors…” -Aristotle – This ties in with Household rule, & the royal monarch who establishes the state (whether it be a city or country or empire or any political bond) as the Great Founder. A city made like a great household, an Absolutist would see (in disagreement w/ Aristotle here, but confirming that royal rule is household rule. A great monarch knows his pre-eminence when he is the Great Founder who established the state, & became the progenitor of a people. As God & New Jerusalem, Akhenaten & Amarna, Ramses II & Pi-Ramses, Alexander the Great & Alexandria, Romulus & Rome, Constantine & Constantinople, Louis XIV & Versailles, Emp. Peter I & St. Petersburg, revealed this pre-eminence.
>>3421 Sounds like more treating the plebs as babies who can't even change their own diapers.
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Pre-eminence / Majesty is an all-encompassing greatness, by means extraordinary, and having the relationship of general to particular. Hobbes made a popular pre-eminence by having the unity of the People in the Sovereign. All their united strength made the Sovereign by artificial and popular pre-eminence. Others talk about pre-eminence by divine eminence and majesty. A natural pre-eminence of the fatherly power, having the relationship of a natural superior, but still being the same kind or kin… Pre-eminence is more than meritocracy. What man could ever hope to merit the strength of the entire People in one Person ? (one for all, all for one) – Or what did the lion say to the mouse? I've heard nationalists talk about merit in comparison to pre-eminence, but I don't think they understand it. I mentioned >>3105 here about whether Monarchy being natural or extraordinary, but pre-eminence or majesty is also central to the question. >>3422 Yes, pre-eminence humbles an entire population. We're talking about one person having the relationship of a superior to myriads of people, but by no means does this mean they have to wear diapers.
>>3422 Why do you think the /abdl/ thread is the only active one other than here? All the babies know who the true guide, protector and mother.
I know it sounds ridiculous to many of you. But the truth is, the reason why many people so ardently believe in the Free Market or Socialism and any particular Political Authority is because they believe these will efficiently provide for them. Why so many people in the past on this board had obnoxious opinions towards Monarchy was for the same reason -- they didn't believe Monarchy provided. If anons here believed Monarchy provided and was the hand feeding them, like they highly regard the Free Market or Socialism, they too would revere Monarchy like I do. I know, for many anons, this is hard to believe. But the Monarchist mentality believes in household management (where the term economic originates) and the household is a Monarchy -- we firmly believe that by nature, a father provides for his children, and that a shepherd provides for his flock, and that political authority and organization of the state is best expressed by one ruler. I know anons will disagree vehemently with me, but I think I am proven right by how ardently some people are attached to those particular politics.
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>>3425 Anons don't know how good they had it till they dispose of their Monarch.
>>3432 This is too true; like many things in life, you can never appreciate something to its fullest extend without seeing the messy and disgusting inverse, which would be republicanism
It was the geometrical method that Hobbes attempted to apply not only to political science but to the whole of science that lead Marx and English to describe Hobbes' materialism as "misanthropic" since it lacked the "poetic glamour" that materialism still possessed in Bacon's writings. Marx and Engels summed up the development of English philosophy in The Holy Family in 1844 "In its further evolution, materialism becomes one-sided. Hobbes is the man who systematises Baconian materialism. Knowledge based upon the senses loses its poetic blossom, it passes into the abstract experience of the geometrician. Physical motion is sacrificed to mechanical or mathematical motion; geometry is proclaimed as the queen of sciences. Materialism takes to misanthropy. If it is to overcome its opponent, misanthropic, fleshless spiritualism, and that on the latter's own ground, materialism has to chastise its own flesh and turn ascetic. Thus it passes into an intellectual entity; but thus, too, it evolves all the consistency, regardless of consequences, characteristic of the intellect." Hobbes on the artificial man >For seeing life is but a motion of limbs, the beginning whereof is in some principal part within, why may we not say that all automata (engines that move themselves by springs and wheels as doth a watch) have an artificial life? For what is the heart, but a spring; and the nerves, but so many strings; and the joints, but so many wheels, giving motion to the whole body, such as was intended by the Artificer? Art goes yet further, imitating that rational and most excellent work of Nature, man. For by art is created that great Leviathan called a Commonwealth, or State (in Latin, Civitas), which is but an artificial man, though of greater stature and strength than the natural, for whose protection and defence it was intended; and in which the sovereignty is an artificial soul, as giving life and motion to the whole body; the magistrates and other officers of judicature and execution, artificial joints; reward and punishment (by which fastened to the seat of the sovereignty, every joint and member is moved to perform his duty) are the nerves, that do the same in the body natural; the wealth and riches of all the particular members are the strength; salus populi (the people’s safety) its business; counsellors, by whom all things needful for it to know are suggested unto it, are the memory; equity and laws, an artificial reason and will; concord, health; sedition, sickness; and civil war, death. Lastly, the pacts and covenants, by which the parts of this body politic were at first made, set together, and united, resemble that fiat, or the Let us make man, pronounced by God in the Creation. >Sometimes also in the merely civil government there be more than one soul: as when the power of levying money, which is the nutritive faculty, has depended on a general assembly; the power of conduct and command, which is the motive faculty, on one man; and the power of making laws, which is the rational faculty, on the accidental consent, not only of those two, but also of a third: this endangereth the Commonwealth, sometimes for want of consent to good laws, but most often for want of such nourishment as is necessary to life and motion. For although few perceive that such government is not government, but division of the Commonwealth into three factions, and call it mixed monarchy; yet the truth is that it is not one independent Commonwealth, but three independent factions; nor one representative person, but three. In the kingdom of God there may be three persons independent, without breach of unity in God that reigneth; but where men reign, that be subject to diversity of opinions, it cannot be so. And therefore if the king bear the person of the people, and the general assembly bear also the person of the people, and another assembly bear the person of a part of the people, they are not one person, nor one sovereign; but three persons, and three sovereigns. >To what disease in the natural body of man I may exactly compare this irregularity of a Commonwealth, I know not. But I have seen a man that had another man growing out of his side, with a head, arms, breast, and stomach of his own: if he had had another man growing out of his other side, the comparison might then have been exact.
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Bodin was deeply concerned with the question of harmony and order in a very disordered time. For Bodin, the common good depended on order, and order in society could only exist through a well-established and properly functioning monarchy. In Bodin's view the end of law is to secure order in the Commonweale. He even goes so far as to say that it is 'better to have an evil Commonweale than none at all'. The state should be built with relation to the concord of numbers. The three types of progression–arithmetic, geometric, and harmonic–he called the three daughters of Themis, representing order, justice, and peace. The middle term included the other two. The arithmetic progression was more suited to a democratic state, since it denoted equality. Plato, in building an aristocratic state, preferred that it should be governed according to the geometric system. But the harmonic ratio, developed from the other two, portrayed the relationship of overlord and vassal and was therefore suited to a monarchy. It represented peace, and this was the highest objective of all empires. Here Bodin entered upon a discussion of musical intervals, probably drawn from Boethius or Macrobius, which sought to show a parallel between the well-tempered state and concord in music. The conclusion is that a state can best avoid danger from within or from without if it is built on harmonic principles, which for Bodin meant a monarchy administrated in the interests of all. "As for the fact that Plato wished his state to be governed according to geometric ratio, Aristotle decided subtly and cleverly that this concerned rewards only. Arithmetic ratio he related to honoring pledges and to penalties. How rightly, I will not discuss; but about the harmonic ratio neither said anything. Yet I think this ratio, as the most beautiful of all, pertains to the form of the best empire. First because it is developed from arithmetic and geometric ratios alone, yet is unlike each. The harmonic ratio cannot pertain to penalties or rewards, or to pledges, since in pledges an arithmetic equality inheres, in penalties and rewards an equable geometrical similarity. In the harmonic alone inheres the relationship of the superior and the inferior." Of the three kinds of justice, Distributive, Commutative, and Harmonical: and what proportion they have unto an estate Royal, Oligarchic, and Popular. >Let us then say in continuing of our purpose, that it is not enough to maintain, that a Monarchy is the best estate of a Commonweal, & which in it has the least inconvenience; except we also (as we said) add thereunto, a Monarchy Royal. Neither yet suffices it to say, that the Royal Monarchy is most excellent, if we should not also show that unto the absolute perfection thereof it ought to be fast knit together by an Oligarchic and Popular kind of government: which are proper unto the estates Oligarchic, and Popular. In which doing, the estate of the Monarchy shall be simple, and yet the government so compound and mixt, without any confusion at all of the three kinds of Estates, or Commonweales. For we have before shewed, that there is a great difference betwixt the mingling, or rather confounding of the three estates of Commonweales in one (a thing altogether impossible) and the making of a government of a Monarchy, to be Oligarchic and Popular. For as amongst Monarchies, the Royal Monarchy so governed (as I have said) is the most commendable: even so amongst kingdoms, that which holds most, or comes nearest unto this Harmonical Justice, is of others the most perfect. Justice therefore I say to be The right division of rewards and punishments, and of that which of right unto every man belongs. For that by these, as by most certain guides, wee must enter into this most religious and stately temple of Justice. But this equal division which we seek for, can in no wise be accomplished, or performed, but by a moderate mixture, and confusion of equality, and similitude together, which is the true proportion Harmonicall, and whereof no man hath as yet spoken. >Plato having presupposed the best form of a Commonweale, to be that which was composed of a Tyrannicall and Popular estate: in framing the same, is contrary unto himself, hauing established a Commonweale not only Popular, but altogether a∣so Popularly governed; giving unto the whole assembly of his citizens, the power to make, and to abrogate laws, to place and displace all manner of officers, to determine of peace and warre, to judge of the goods, the life, and honour, of every particular man in sovereignty: which is indeed the true Popular estate, and Popularly also governed. And albeit that he had so (as we say) formed his Commonweale, yet neuerthelesse hee said, That the Commonweale could never be happy, if it were not by Geometrical proportion governed; saying that God (whom every wise lawmaker ought to imitate) in the government of the world always useth Geometrical proportion. >Now certain it is, that Distributive, or Geometrical Justice, is most contrary unto the Popular estate and government by Plato set down: the people still seeking after nothing more, than for equalitie in all things; a thing proper unto Commutative, or Arithmetical Justice. Which was the cause for which Xenophon (Plato his companion, and both of them jealous one of another's glory) being of opinion, That Commonweales ought to be framed, and the laws administered according unto Arithmetical proportion and equality, brings in Cyrus yet a boy, corrected and chastised, for that he being chosen king, had changed but the servants garments, appointing better apparel unto them of the better sort, and meaner unto them of the meaner sort: as having therein regard unto decency, and the proportion Geometrical After which chastisement, Cyrus is by his master taught, to give unto every man that which unto him belongs, and to remember that he was a Persian borne, and was therefore to use the Persian laws and customs, which gave unto every man that which was unto him proper: and not the manners and fashions of the Medes, who thought it meet, that to be unto every man given, which was decent and convenient for him. Which writings of Xenophon, Plato having read, and knowing right well that it was himself, and not Cyrus, which had been corrected; forthwith reproved the Cyropaedia, without naming of any partie. This diversity of opinions, betwixt Xenophon and Plato (famous among the Greeks) was the cause of two great factions, the one of the Nobility and richer sort, who held for Geometrical Justice, and the Oligarchical estate; the other of the baser and poorer sort, who maintained Commutative or Arithmetical Justice, and therefore wished to have had all estates and Commonweales Popular. Now of these two factions arise a third, which was of opinion, That in euery Commonweale Arithmetical Justice was to be kept in just equality, when question was of the goods of any one in particular, or for the recompensing of offences and forfeitures: but if question were of common rewards to be bestowed out of the common treasure, or for the division of countries conquered, or for the inflicting of common punishments, that then Distributive, or Geometrical Justice, was to be observed and kept, having regard unto the good or evil deserts, and the qualities or calling of every man: insomuch that these men used two proportions, and yet for all that diversely, sometime the one and some∣time the other: as Aristotle said it ought to be done, but yet not naming either Plato or Xenophon, who yet had both first touched this string.
>So the royal estate also by a necessary consequence framed unto the harmonicall proportion, if it be royally ordered and governed, that is to say, Harmonically; there is no doubt but that of all other estates it is the fairest, the happiest, and most perfect. But here I speak not of a lordly monarchy, where the Monarch, though a natural prince born, holds all his subjects underfoot as slaves, disposing of their goods as of his own: and yet much less of a tyrannical monarchy, where the Monarch being no natural Lord, abuses neuerthelesse the subjects and their goods at his pleasure, as if they were his very slaves; and yet worse also when he makes them slaves unto his own cruelties. But my speech and meaning is of a lawful King, whether he be so by election, for his virtue and religion, by voice chosen, so as was Numa; or by divine lot, as was Saul; or that he haue by strong hand and force of armes, as a conquerour got his kingdome, as have many; or that he have it by a lawful and orderly succession, as have all (except some few) who with no less love and care favours and defends his subjects, than if they were his own children. And yet such a King may nevertheless if he will, governe his kingdome popularly and by equall Arithmetical proportion, calling all his subiects indifferently without respect of persons unto all honours and preferments whatsoever, without making choyce of their deserts or sufficiency, whether it be that they be chosen by lot or by order one of them after another: howbeit that there be few or rather no such monarchies indeed. So the King may also govern his estate or kingdome Aristocratically, bestowing the honorable estates and charges therein with the distribution of punishments and rewards by Geometrical proportion, making still choice of the nobility of some, and of the riches of others, still rejecting the base poorer sort, and yet without any regard had unto the deserts or virtues of them whom he so preferred; but onely vnto him that is best monyed or most noble. Both which manner of governments, howbeit that they bee euill and blameworthy, yet is this Oligarchic and Geometrical proportion of government much more tolerable and more sure, than is that popular and turbulent government, scarcely any where to bee found, as nearer approaching unto the sweet Harmonicall government. For it may be, that the king to assure his estate against the insurrection of the base common people, may have need to strengthen himself with the nobility, which come nee∣rer unto his quality and condition, than doth the base artificers and common sort of people, unto whom he cannot descend, neither with them well have any society at all, if he will in any good sort maintain the maiesty of his royal estate and sovereignty, as it seems he must of necessity do, if he shall make them partakers of the most honourable charges of his estate and kingdome. But such an Oligarchic kind of government is also euill and dangerous, not unto the common people only, but even unto the nobility & prince also: who may so still stand in fear of the discontented vulgar sort, which is always far in number more than is the nobility or the rich: and having got some seditious leader, and so taking up of arms, becomes the stronger part, and so sometimes revolting from their prince, drives out the nobility, and fortify themselves against their princes power: >But now in civil societies there is no mean better to bind and combine the little ones with the great, the base with the noble, the poor with the rich, than by communicating of the offices, estates, dignities, and preferments, unto all men, as well the base as the noble, according unto every mans virtues and deserts, as wee have before declared... but we must also, to make an harmony of one of them with another, mingle them which have wherewith in some sort to supply that which wanteth in the other. For otherwise there shall be no more harmony than if one should separate the concords of music which are in themselves good, but yet would make no good consent if they were not bound together: for that the default of the one is sup∣plied by the other. In which doing, the wise prince shall set his subjects in a most sweet quiet, bound together with an indissoluble bond one of them unto another, together with himself, and the Commonweale. As is in the four first numbers to bee seen: which God hath in Harmonicall proportion disposed to show unto us, that the Royal estate is Harmonicall, and also to be Harmonically governed. For two to three makes a fifth; three to four, a fourth; two to four, an eight; and again afterwards, one to two, makea an eight; one to three, a twelfth, holding the fifth and the eight; & one to four, a double eight, or Diapason: which contains the whole ground and compass of all tunes and concords of music, beyond which he which will passe unto five, shall in so doing mar the harmony, and make an intolerable discord. >Now the sovereign prince is exalted above all his subjects, and exempt out of the rank of them: whose majesty suffers no more division than doth the unity itself, which is not set nor accounted among the numbers, howbeit that they all from it take both their force and power... And as many men for lack of understanding live like beast, smoothed with that only which is present and before them, without mounting any higher unto the contemplation of things intellectual and divine, whom the sacred scriptures call also beasts: even so also the Oligarchic and popular Common∣weales without understanding, that is to say, without a prince, are in some sort able to maintain and defend themselves, though not long: being indeed about to become much more happy if they had a sovereign prince, which with his authority and power might (as doth the understanding) reconcile all the parts, and so unite and bind them fast in happiness together. >For that as of unity depends the union of all numbers, which have no power but from it: so also is one souvereign prince in euery Commonweale necessary, from the power of whom all others orderly depend. But as there cannot bee good music wherein there is not some discord, which must of necessity be intermingled to give the better grace unto the Harmony. So also is it necessary that there should be some fools amongst wise men, some unworthy of their charge amongst men of great experience, and some evil and vile men amongst the good and virtuous, to give them the greater lustre, and to make the difference known (even by the pointing of the finger, and the sight of the eye) betwixt virtue and vice, knowledge and ignorance. For when sools, vicious, and wicked men, are contemned & despised, then the wise, virtuous, and good men, receive the true reward and guerdon for their virtue, which is honour. >And it seems the ancient Greeks in their fables, to have aptly shadowed forth unto vs that which wee have spoken of these three kinds of Justice, giving unto Themis three daughters. That is to say, Upright Law, Equity, and Peace: which are referred unto the three forms of Justice, Arithmetical, Geometrical, and Harmonicall:
>But these things thus declared, it remains for us to know (as the chief point of this our present discourse) Whether it be true that Plato saith, God to govern this world by Geometrical proportion: For that he hath taken it as a ground, to shew that a well ordered Commonweale ought (to the imitation of the world) to be governed by Geometrical Justice: Which I have shewed to be contrary, by the nature of the unity, Harmonically referred unto the three first numbers: as also by the intellectual power, compared unto the three other powers of the soul: and by a point compared to a line, a plain superficies, or other solid body. But let us go farther, for if Plato had looked nearer into the wonderfull Fabric of the world, he should have marked that which he forgot in his Timeo, viz. The Great God of nature to have Harmonically composed this world of Matter and Form, of which the one is maintained by the help of the other, and that by the proportion of equality and similitude combined & bound together. And for that the Matter was to no use without the Form, and that the form could have no being without the matter, neither in the whole universal, neither yet in the parts thereof: he made the world equal to the one, and semblance to the other: equall unto the matter whereof it is made, for that it comprehends all: and semblance or like unto the form, in such sort as is the Harmonicall proportion composed of the Arithmetical and Geometrical proportions equall to the one, and semblable to the other, being one of them separate from another unperfect. >So also a well ordered Commonweale is composed of good and bad, of the rich and of the poor, of wisemen and of fools, of the strong and of the weak, allied by them which are in the mean betwixt both: which so by a wonderfull disagreeing concord, ioin the highest with the lowest, and so all to all, yet so as that the good are still stronger than the bad; so as he the most wise workman of all others, and governor of the world hath by his eternal law decreed. And as he himself being of an infinite force and power rules over the angels, so also the angels over men, men over beasts, the soul over the the body. >Wherefore what the unity is in numbers, the understanding in the powers of the soul, and the center in a circle: so likewise in this world that most mighty king, in unity simple, in nature indivisible, in purity most holy, exalted far above the Fabric of the celestial Spheres, joining this elementary world with the celestiall and intelligible heavens; with a certain secure care preserves from destruction this triple world, bound together with a most sweet and Harmonicall consent: unto the imitation of whom, every good prince which wishes his Kingdom and Commonweale not in safety only, but even good and blessed also, is to frame and conform himself.
Do anyone else have a problem with using the saucenao plugin with the pics here? Even when I click on videos to try and download them, it just says that it fails to download.
Most people ardently believe in their politics, because they believe it will provide for them, and that it sustains them. It is the very compelling. When they believe the father provides for his children, that the shepherd feeds his flock, and the household management, that the political authority and state are best expressed and organized by one ruler. Egyptian Loyalist Teaching >He is the sun in whose leadership people live >Whoever is under his light will be great in wealth >He gives sustenance to his followers >He feeds the man who sticks to his path >the man he favors will be a lord of offerings >the man he rejects will be a pauper >He is Khuum for every body
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Another counter-narrative to Aristotle's water argument: "And the more men there be, the less effects are there of virtue and wisdom (even as a little salt cast into a great lake, loses his force:) so as the good men shall be always vanquished in number by the vicious and ambitious: and for one tyrant there shall be a hundred which will cross the resolution of the lesser but of sounder part: as it is always seen as well in the diets and assemblies of the princes of Germany, whereas the spiritual princes of the empire, being the greatest number, have always crost the princes temporal: so as by their means the emperor Charles V, caused the empire to declare itself an enemy to the House of France. the which had not been so in many ages: to the end the temporal princes should have no hope of any succours from France in their necessities, whereinto they soon after fell. And to make short, it has been always seen, that the more heads there be in a Seigneurie, the more controversies arise, and less resolution. And therefore the Seigneurie of Venice to avoid these inconveniences, commits all affairs of state to the managing of a dozen persons, and most commonly to seven, especially to keep their affairs secret, wherein consists the health and preservation of an estate." -Jean Bodin How the absolutist view differs from feudfag/constitutionalist view "The error concerning mixed government has proceeded from want of understanding of what is meant by this word body politic, and how it signifies not the concord, but the UNION of many men.." -Hobbes "No otherwise than Theseus his ship, which although it were an hundred times changed by putting in of new planks, yet still retained the old name. But as a ship, if the keel (which strongly bears up the prow, the poup, the ribs, and tacklings) be taken away, is no no longer a ship, but an ill favoured houp of wood; even so a Commonwealth, without a sovereignty of power, which UNITES in one body ALL members and families of the same is no more a Commonwealth, neither can by and means long endure. And not to depart from our similitude; as a ship may be quite broken up, or altogether consumed with fire; so may also the people into diverse places dispersed, or be utterly destroyed, the City or state yet standing whole; for it is neither the walls, neither the persons, that makes the city, but the UNION of the people under the same sovereignty of government." -Jean Bodin "And that they differ, not in kind, but only in the number of their subjects." -Aristotle, Politics (Absolutists disagreed, with the view, that they differed in kind or were a concord by different kinds/parts, but rather that they were only by the number of their subjects... the feudalist/constitutionalist generally views the state to be a concord, whereas the absolutist views it as a unity with harmony by a sovereign) >Now the sovereign prince is exalted above all his subjects, and exempt out of the rank of them: whose majesty suffers no more division than doth the unity itself, which is not set nor accounted among the numbers, howbeit that they all from it take both their force and power.... being indeed about to become much more happy if they had a sovereign prince, which with his authority and power might (as doth the understanding) reconcile all the parts, and so unite and bind them fast in happiness together. >For that as of unity depends the union of all numbers, which have no power but from it: so also is one sovereign prince in every Commonweale necessary, from the power of whom all others orderly depend >Wherefore what the unity is in numbers, the understanding in the powers of the soul, and the center in a circle: so likewise in this world that most mighty king, in unity simple, in nature indivisible, in purity most holy, exalted far above the Fabric of the celestial Spheres, joining this elementary world with the celestiall and intelligible heavens
>>3442 In the Statesman, Plato gives an account on the harmony of government. He says that the art of the statesman is like the weaver, in its proportionate binding the woof and the warp together: STRANGER: It was of these bonds I said that there would be no difficulty in creating them, if only both classes originally held the same opinion about the honourable and good;—indeed, in this single work, the whole process of royal weaving is comprised—never to allow temperate natures to be separated from the brave, but to weave them together, like the warp and the woof, by common sentiments and honours and reputation, and by the giving of pledges to one another; and out of them forming one smooth and even web, to entrust to them the offices of State. STRANGER: This then we declare to be the completion of the web of political action, which is created by a direct intertexture of the brave and temperate natures, whenever the royal science has drawn the two minds into communion with one another by unanimity and friendship, and having perfected the noblest and best of all the webs which political life admits, and enfolding therein all other inhabitants of cities, whether slaves or freemen, binds them in one fabric and governs and presides over them, and, in so far as to be happy is vouchsafed to a city, in no particular fails to secure their happiness.
>>3460 "Aristotle gives the lie to Plato... and those that say... do not differ specie... but only multitudine et paucitate (number)" -Rob. Filmer Traditionalists don't really disagree with constitutionalism in principle, but only that it is written and their view of conscience and rights. And that the Written Constitutionalism is a Protestant rehash of Sola Scriptura. They still pretty much are for the mixed constitution. Only absolutists are really critical of the mixed constitution from the view of unity and theirs of concord.
>/abdl/ super slow, near dead for a day >/monarchy/ missing some posters A-are we safe?
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>>3464 It has long been this way.
>>3464 I heard that /abdl/ unleashed some sort of band of Aras that started kidnapping anons and since then the amount of posters has dropped drastically.
>>3466 Yea, but thankfully that thread reached its bump limit a while back, so it's back to business, I guess
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Merneptah's Speech: Lo, his Majesy was enraged at their report, like a lion; he assembled his court, and said to them: "Hear ye the command of your lord; I give–as ye shall do, saying: I am the ruler who shepherds you; I spend my time searching out–as a father who preserves alive his children; while ye fear like birds, and ye know not the goodness of that which he does. Is there none answering… Shall the land be wasted and forsaken at the invasion of every country, while the Nine Bows plunder its borders, and rebels invade every day?" Court eulogizes Ramses II: "We come to thee, lord of heaven, lord of earth, Re, life of the whole earth, lord of duration, of fruitful revolution, Atum for the people, lord of destiny, creator of Renenet, Khnum who fashioned the people, giver of breath into the nostrils of all, making all the gods live, pillar of heaven, support of earth, adjusting the Two Lands, lord of food, plentiful in grain, in whose steps is the harvest goddess, maker of the great, fashioner of the lowly, whose word produces food, the lord vigilant when all men sleep, whose might defends Egypt, valiant in foreign lands, who returns when he has triumphed, whose sword protects the Egyptians, beloved of truth, in which he lives by his laws, defender of the Two Lands, rich in years, great in victory, the fear of whom expels foreign lands, our king, our lord, our Sun, by the words of whose mouth Atum lives. Lo, we are now before they majesty, that thou mayest decree to us the life that thou givest, Pharaoh, breath of life, who makes all men live when he has shone on them."
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North Korea: Embracing the Monarchist ideal wholeheartedly Traditionalists & Royalists these days: Curving their lips in disdain, dismissing the Monarchist ideal Haughtily denying the significance of one ruler Dabbling into Anarchist politics Only there to promote glitter and pomp Doesn't see how the political structure of Monarchy resembles a household rule, doesn't see how the political structure of Monarchy matters Decadent, proud, and elitist
DPRK song talking about the importance of ONE leader
I love monarchy I love Christ's favourite model of society And you can't make me not I hate the antichrist I hate the antichrist I hate the antichrist
Ramesses II Speech for his Father: "For the son becomes the champion of his father, like Horus, when he championed his father, forming him that formed him, fashioning him that fashioned him, making to live the name of him that begat him." "My heart leads me in doing excellent things… I will cause it to be said forever and ever: 'It was his son, who made his name live.' May my father, Osiris, favor me with the long life of his son, Horus, according as I do that which he did; I do excellent things, as he did excellent things, for him who begat me."
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>>3425 Doesn't sound ridiculous to me anon.
The Merry Boys of Christmas (A 17th Century broadside ballad celebrating the return of Christmas and the Restoration of the monarchy.) Come, come my roaring ranting boys, let’s never be cast down, We’ll never mind the female toys, but loyal be to the crown, We’ll never break our hearts with care, or be cast down with fear, Our bellies then let us prepare to drink some Christmas beer. Then here’s a health to Charles our King, throughout the world admir’d, Let us his great applauses sing, that we so much desir’d, And wish’t amongst us for to reign when Oliver rul’d here, But since he’s home return’d again, come fill some Christmas beer. These holidays we’ll briskly drink, all mirth we will devise, No treason will we speak or think, but bring us brave mince pies, Roast beef, and brave plum porridge our loyal hearts to cheer, Then prithee make no more ado, but bring us Christmas beer.
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"For it ought to obey him by whom it is preserved, because the preservation of life being the end for which one man becomes subject to another, every man is supposed to promise obedience to him in whose power it is to save or destroy him." -Thomas Hobbes
"That a Monarchy is the most sure, seeing that a Family / Household which is the true image of the Commonwealth can but have one head." -Jean Bodin
To our true King of Kings.
>Henry II reigned from 1154 – 1189. Henry appointed Becket as Archbishop of Canterbury hoping he would help the King reform the Church from some abuses, but in fact Becket became ascetic and refused to help. >When a clerk commited a murder and went unpunished, King Henry promoted a law that clergy should be tried for murder in civil courts, not church courts, restricting movements of high-ranking clergy, and also taking control of revenues of vacant sees (Bishop’s territories). Becket signed this but later asked the Pope to release him from his oath. Becket defied the King and fled to France. >Henry had the Archbishop of York, Roger, crown his eldest son (also called Henry). Becket and the Pope were upset by this, as was King Louis VII of France, who was sheltering Becket. Henry was forced to let Becket return to England, but Becket then excommunicated Roger of York and four other Bishops who had opposed him! >A group of knights, apparently misunderstanding some words spoken by Henry in anger and haste, murdered Becket at the alter of Canterbury Cathedral. >It’s also worth mentioning that the Pope had given Henry II permission to conquer Ireland. King Henry II "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" “What miserable drones and traitors have I nurtured and promoted in my household who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric!” Thomas Hobbes on Temporal vs Spiritual Power "And when kings deny themselves some such necessary power, it is not always (though sometimes) out of ignorance of what is necessary to the office they undertake, but many times out of a hope to recover the same again at their pleasure: wherein they reason not well; because such as will hold them to their promises shall be maintained against them by foreign Commonwealths; who in order to the good of their own subjects let slip a few occasions to weaken the estate of their neighbours. So was Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury, supported against Henry the Second by the Pope; the subjection of ecclesiastics to the Commonwealth having been dispensed with by William the Conqueror at his reception when he took an oath not to infringe on the liberty of the Church." "Temporal and spiritual government are but two words brought into the world to make men see double and mistake their lawful sovereign. It is true that the bodies of the faithful, after the resurrection, shall be not only spiritual, but eternal; but in this life they are gross and corruptible. There is therefore no other government in this life, neither of state nor religion, but temporal; nor teaching of any doctrine lawful to any subject which the governor both of the state and of the religion forbiddeth to be taught. And that governor must be one; or else there must needs follow faction and civil war in the Commonwealth between the Church and the State; between spiritualists and temporalists; between the sword of justice and the shield of faith; and, which is more, in every Christian man's own breast between the Christian and the man." "For the forth council of Lateran, held under Pope Innocent the Third (in the third Chapter, De Haereticis), hath this canon: "If a king, at the Pope's admonition, do not purge his kingdom of heretics, and being excommunicate for the same, make not satisfaction within a year, his subjects are absolved of their obedience." And the practice hereof hath been on diverse occasions: as in the deposing of Childeric, King of France; in the translation of the Roman Empire to Charlemagne; in the oppression of John, King of England; in transferring the kingdom of Navarre; and of late years, in the league against Henry the Third of France, and in many more occurences. I think there be few princes that consider not this as unjust and inconvenient; but I wish they would all resolve to be kings or subjects. Men cannot serve two masters. They ought therefore to ease them, either by holding the reins of government wholly in their own hands, or by wholly delivering them into the hands of the Pope, that such men are willing to be obedient may be protected in their obedience. For this distinction of temporal and spiritual power is but words. Power is as really divided,and as dangerously to all purposes, by sharing with another indirect power, as direct one."
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They are wrong who deny the importance of Politics & Place the image of a well ordered House beneath As merely poorman's theology & say Totalitarian Social order, cohesion, & public morality Will spring from the soil of the Body-Politic. People need a strong royal bond & political unity
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>>3562 By royal bond, The blood relationship and familial loyalty described by Aristotle, "And this is the reason why Hellenic states were originally governed by kings; ...the kingly form of government prevailed because they were of the same blood [and suckled 'with the same milk']" -Aristotle, Politics This royal bond is needed politically. People must feel a connection, awe, and revere the Sovereign Monarch, whose person has the unity of the state and has the relationship of the general to particular. The end of political monarchy is to make the state resemble a well ordered household / great family. By political unity, The Sovereign Monarch will be the unity itself, that unites his people like the Royal Weaver and has the soul of the Commonwealth. Not as merely a symbol of that unity. The Sovereign Monarch is the unity itself, has the pre-eminence and majesty, has the relationship of general to particular. “If we consider the household, whose end is to teach its members to live rightly, there is a need for one called the pater-familias, or for some one holding his place to direct and govern.”
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The means by which any sovereign could govern could change – it's not something that is really fixed. Keep in mind, that the Sovereign Monarch from the absolutist stance is seen as the unity itself, and not as a symbol of that unity (as ceremonialists would have it). And that the Sovereign Monarch is the State and political unity, and that the Sovereign Monarch's government IS his method of governing, that could be mixed, whereas the State is unmixed. To understand this point of view from Absolutism, you should recognize the Royal Weaver & how it is related to the idea of the indivisibility of Sovereignty. The Sovereign Monarch is the Royal Weaver. He is an indivisible power, has the relationship of the general to particular, meaning pre-eminence and an infinite majesty. For the meaning of Sovereignty is also Majesty. He is the State, and the government is his method of governing – that's how I would say, it does differ from the constitutionalist view. Traditionalists don't really disagree with constitutionalism in principle, but only that it is written and their view of conscience and rights. And that the Written Constitutionalism is a Protestant rehash of Sola Scriptura. They still pretty much are for the mixed constitution. Whereas the constitutionalist narrative is that it has effectively replaced absolutism, and borrowed its concept of sovereignty and of unity… I obviously am not convinced or sold on that narrative, and also believe that they haven't taken that view of Sovereignty from absolutists wholeheartedly since they deny pre-eminence and since they don't believe in the indivisibility of the Sovereign.
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"For the power by which the people are to be defended consists in their armies, and the strength of an army in the union of their strength under one command; which command the sovereign instituted, therefore has, because the command of the militia, without other institution, makes him that has it sovereign. And therefore, whosoever is made general of an army, he that has the sovereign power is always generalissimo." -Hobbes, Leviathan From Charles I's speech on scaffold >I shall begin first with my innocence. In troth I think it not very needful for me to insist long upon this, for all the world knows that I never did begin a War with the two Houses of Parliament. And I call God to witness, to whom I must shortly make an account, that I never did intend for to encroach upon their privileges. They began upon me, it is the Militia they began upon, they confest that the Militia was mine, but they thought it fit for to have it from me. And, to be short, if any body will look to the dates of Commissions, of their commissions and mine, and likewise to the Declarations, will see clearly that they began these unhappy troubles, not I. More from Behemoth >A: None: but in order thereto, as they may pretend, they had a bill in agitation to assert the power of levying and pressing soldiers to the two Houses of the Lords and Commons; which was as much as to take from the King the power of the militia, which is in effect the whole sovereign power. For he that hath the power of levying and commanding the soldiers, has all other rights of sovereignty which he shall please to claim. >A: It is also worth observing, that this petition began with these words, Most gracious Sovereign: so stupid they were as not to know, that he that is master of the militia, is master of the kingdom, and consequently is in possession of a most absolute sovereignty. >A: I know not what need they had. But on both sides they thought it needful to hinder one another, as much as they could, from levying of soldiers; and, therefore, the King did set forth declarations in print, to make the people know that they ought not to obey the officers of the new militia set up by ordinance of Parliament, and also to let them see the legality of his own commissions of array. And the Parliament on their part did the like, to justify to the people the said ordinance, and to make the commission of array appear unlawful. >A: King William the Conqueror had gotten into his hands by victory all the land in England, of which he disposed some part as forests and chases for his recreation, and some part to lords and gentlemen that had assisted him or were to assist him in the wars. Upon which he laid a charge of service in his wars, some with more men, and some with less, according to the lands he had given them: whereby, when the King sent men unto them with commission to make use of their service, they were obliged to appear with arms, and to accompany the King to the wars for a certain time at their own charges: and such were the commissions by which this King did then make his levies. >A: After the sending of these propositions to the King, and his Majesty’s refusal to grant them, they began, on both sides, to prepare for war. The King raised a guard for his person in Yorkshire, and the Parliament, thereupon having voted that the King intended to make war upon his Parliament, gave order for the mustering and exercising the people in arms, and published propositions to invite and encourage them to bring in either ready money or plate, or to promise under their hands to furnish and maintain certain numbers of horse, horsemen, and arms, for the defence of the King and Parliament, (meaning by King, as they had formerly declared, not his person, but his laws); promising to repay their money with interest of 8l. in the 100l. and the value of their plate with twelve-pence the ounce for the fashion. On the other side, the King came to Nottingham, and there did set up his standard royal, and sent out commissions of array to call those to him, which by the ancient laws of England were bound to serve him in the wars. Upon this occasion there passed divers declarations between the King and Parliament concerning the legality of this array, which are too long to tell you at this time. >B: Nor do I desire to hear any mooting about this question. For I think that general law of salus populi, and the right of defending himself against those that had taken from him the sovereign power, are sufficient to make legal whatsoever he should do in order to the recovery of his kingdom, or to the punishing of the rebels.
Personally, I've begun to view traditionalists as a thorn in the side of any seriously political monarchist. The former, because I'm casting doubt how many trads are sincerely for political monarchy & like it because it is fashionable for them at best. They appear to me to be a bunch of faggot dudebros. & whenever anyone has bold political opinions, they shout you down & only side with the moderates, shooting down anyone's aim for a political monarchy. When they become too much of an overgrowth, any focus on monarchy or the politics pertaining to it take a backseat and are put secondary. /christian/ stops by to shill here, but while they say that Christ is King, do they sincerely care about political monarchy? They might say, well, how does that compare? But I would say, how should anyone appreciate a heavenly kingdom, if your views here in this world don't correlate. "Wherefore men say that the Gods have a king, because they themselves either are or were in ancient times under the rule of a king. For they imagine, not only the forms of the Gods, but their ways of life to be like their own." -Aristotle, Politics I would also phrase things the way Aristotle does. It should be followed by a practical perspective, that what would Christ being King mean, if being King here on Earth is something hated and irrelevant. It might as well be an insult. Being a monarchist (at least, if it doesn't pertain to their fav dynasties, like Habsburgs or isn't the Pope) only serves to aggro traditionalists down the line. And they flirt with anarchist ideals or only serve to distract us. Many traditionalists seem to me to be no better than your average /pol/ user, except the traditionalist feels more entitled. But thankfully, it looks like traditionalists are flocking towards fascism (probably as insincerely as they were here) and get plenty of close quarters with the pagan friends who will no doubt welcome them.
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>>3588 I envy other politicsfags. They don't have to deal with an ounce of this. They have it fairly straightforward. Whereas the conventions of royalty is so meddled, it almost contradicts the idea of Monarchy. A statesman or dictator, thanks to not wearing a crown, doesn't have to deal with any of the sass or stigmas. I envy that. & could much more easily pursue the proper ideals of a political monarchy than any crowned head.
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Bossuet on the Royal Bond / Hereditary State >The people, by themselves, have grown accustomed to this. "I saw all men living, that walk under the Sun with the second young man, who shall rise up in his place." >The second reason which favors this government, is that it makes the authorities who guide the State the ones who are most interested in its preservation. The prince who works for the State works for his children; and the love he bears his kingdom, mixed with that he has for his family, becomes natural to him." >"Thus it is that peoples become attached to royal houses. The jealousy that one naturally feels against those whom one sees above him here turns into love and respect."
>>3590 Bossuet on the true riches of a King Men are the true riches of a king… One is delighted when he sees, under good kings, the incredible multitude of people and the astonishing largeness of the armies. By contrast one is ashamed of Achab and of the kingdom of Israel exhausted of people, when one sees his army encamp "like two little flocks of goats"–while the Syrian army which faced it covered the face of the earth… In the enumeration of the immense riches of Solomon, there is nothing finer than these words: "Judah and Israel were innumerable, as the stand of the sea in the multitude."…But here is the pinnacle of felicity and of richness. It is that this whole innumerable people "ate and drank of the fruit of its hands, every one under his vine and under his fig-tree, and rejoicing. " For joy makes bodies healthy and vigorous
How does /monarchy/ rank other forms of government? If not monarchism, what would be your second choice? Why? Third choice? (last choice?)
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>>3600 If not Monarchy, then I would probably join everyone else in being a democracy simp. Not that I really a loud advocate for democracy, but you might as well at this point, if not monarchy. I'm not contrarian or elitist enough to advocate for Oligarchy unironically and plenty of people already do basically instead of Monarchy.
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>>3601 So rapable. What does one have to do around this parts to get access to some royal pussy?
>>3601 ...O.k., wait what? I want to here more reasoning about what the hell your internal political thoughts are that rank: 1 - Monarchy 2 - Democracy 3 - Everything else Especially when Monarchy and Democracy are traditionally viewed as complete opposites.
>>3603 Wear diapers.
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>>3604 >O.k., wait what? First, I make no secret of it, but I have absolutist politics. 2nd, absolutists only acknowledge 3 forms of state: monarchy (one), oligarchy (few), democracy (many), & deny a mixed form of state, but allow the method of government to be mixed & interwoven on the Monarch's behalf, see Royal Weaver & Bodin's monarchist harmony -- Sovereignty is indivisible, the Monarch himself is the weaver, indivisible himself, but weaving together the govt, by his method -- that's the absolutist view. >Especially when Monarchy and Democracy are traditionally viewed as complete opposites You've left me with two choices: Oligarchy or Democracy. I could say, that I'd apolitical, but that's cheating. Yes, you could say they are on opposite poles, but Democracy has a broad appeal, and Oligarchy doesn't diverge much from the problems from Democracy (in my opinion) since they would still be obliged to take turns in being governed and wouldn't be of one mind like a Monarch either way. I was never advocating Monarchy, because I wanted to admire or larp about noble families or return to myriad petty kings / nobles like some people do who are pretty much crypto-oligarchists, but specifically the rule of one person. I would say to the Oligarchyfags, like Caligula said to various petty kings, "Let there be one ruler, one king".
>>3605 thread over
A Bumper Harvest in the Chongsan Plain Who has brought this happiness? Our Party has brought it. Who has brought this happiness? It is thanks to the Leader!
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"It is not only Homer, then, who calls the Princes the Shepherds of nations; it is the Holy Ghost. This name sufficiently warns them to provide for the need of the whole flock, that is to say the whole People… It is a royal right to provide for the needs of the People." -Bossuet
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Another thing I hate about half the Internet monarchists is they're all under the influence of faggy bloggers. Don't get me wrong. I've also had my humble origins from MM, but likewise prior to that had been drawn to monarchist politics for very practical reasons. A great deal of opinions I hate being circulated around monarchist circles are thanks to the NRx blogsphere. I know that there are factions between them, but they all appear to me like a big cult. I hate the cult-like behavior I see in these people. I despise them. That's why I made those infographs. Was to shill my own politics, but also counteract the blogger's influence and expunge it from their brains. Their brains are too riddled with bugs. They drank the bloggers' hellbroth.
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>>3665 I'm hoping the blogsphere autism. Will wane and lose relevance eventually.
"The best Prince is the best Father." -Jean Bodin "The Prince, whom you may justly call the Father of the Country, ought to be to every man Dearer and more Reverend than any Father, as one Ordained and Sent unto us by God." -Jean Bodin "It may seem absurd to maintain, that Kings now are the Fathers of their People, since Experience shews the contrary. It is true, all Kings be not the Natural Parents of their Subjects, yet they all either are, or are to be reputed the next Heirs to those first Progenitors, who were at first the Natural Parents of the whole People, and in their Right succeed to the Exercise of Supreme Jurisdiction." -Robert Filmer "If we compare the Natural Rights of a Father with those of a King, we find them all one, without any difference but only in the Latitude and Extent of them: as the Father over one Family, so the King as Father over many Families extends his care to preserve, feed, cloth, instruct and defend the whole Commonwealth. His War, his Peace, his Courts of Justice, and all his Acts of Sovereignty tend only to preserve and distribute to every subordinate and inferior Father, and to their Children, their Rights and Privileges; so that all the Duties of a King are summed up in an Universal Fatherly Care of his People." -Robert Filmer "To which end they are to be taught, that originally the Father of every man was also his Sovereign Lord, with power over him of life and death." -Hobbes "But Kings are the Fathers of Families… [the Public Good / education of subjects], the care of which they stand so long charged withal, as they retain any other essential Right of the Sovereignty." -Hobbes (from the context of Pastors / schoolmasters / public education & propaganda) "Kings are also compared to Fathers of families: for a King is truly Parens patriae, the politique father of his People." -King James VI & I "Man who, as has been said, saw the image of a kingdom in the union of several families under the leadership of a common father, and who had found gentleness in that life, brought themselves easily to create societies of families under kings who took the place of fathers… it is apparently for that reason that the ancient people's of Palestine called their kings Abimelech, that is to say: my father the king. Subjects took themselves to be children of the Prince: and, each calling him, My father the king." -Bossuet "For the association of a father with his sons bears the form of monarchy… it is the ideal of monarchy to be paternal rule." -Aristotle
Surprised there has not been discussion on marriage. Its a fundamental institution of monarchy and the plebs love a Royal wedding. Highest point of traditionalism and promotes wholesome values. Real question though about it is should dowries be promoted and arranged marriages between the plebs or should that be reserved just for the likes of Grace?
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>>3670 >talk about how much I don't care for trads <let's appeal to trads! Divorced, beheaded, died, Divorced, beheaded, survived
Sorry this is off-topic, but I feel this is important. SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro >https://dx.doi.org/10.3390%2Fv13102056 Rogue (auto)antibodies could be driving severe COVID-19 >https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-021-00149-1 In fatal COVID-19, the immune response can control the virus but kill the patient >https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2021128117 Tracing the origins of SARS-COV-2 in coronavirus phylogenies: a review >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33558807/ Myocarditis With COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34281357/ tl;dr The SARS–CoV–2 spike and auto-immune response seems to be the real culprit that causes severe and prolonged COVID-19. This also means that mRNA/DNA vaccines and vaccines that contain the spike protein are dangerous. other papers: >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33332890/ "the spike glycoproteins (S protein) cross through the peplos of the virus and form a crown-like surface [4]. Through the receptor binding domain (RBD) located in the S1 subunit of the S protein, the virus can ligate to the host cell receptor angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) and invade into the cell" >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7102627/ SARS-CoV-2 Cell Entry Depends on ACE2 and TMPRSS2 and Is Blocked by a Clinically Proven Protease Inhibitor. >https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7175911/ Repurposing the mucolytic cough suppressant and TMPRSS2 protease inhibitor bromhexine (Bisolvon) for the prevention and management of SARS-CoV-2 infection
O - People believe and follow him with one mind There is mention early pre-eminence of one before oligarchies and democracies took over. The task of Monarchists is to re-create the pre-eminence of one. by whatever means, whether raveling back to its natural majesty or artificially inflating it like a balloon.
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"Just as Almighty God cannot create another God equal with himself, since He is infinite and two infinities cannot co-exist, so the Sovereign Prince, who is the image of God, cannot make a subject equal with himself without self-destruction." -Jean Bodin People's Joy Just calling out his name, makes waves of joy Rise up inside our chests Because of this uniquely great man Who guides us through our lives The whole People is overwhelmed with pride Inside his bosom of affection and determination We all stand United The power of our Unity is Infinite The bright shining light of the Sun leads us into our future "We see they cannot admit many kings, nor many lords, however good soever. Solyman emperour of the Turks used this example, hearing the great cries and acclamations of joy which the whole army made unto Sultan Mustapha his son returning out of Persia, he put him to death through jealousy, causing him to be strangled in his withdrawing chamber, and his dead body to be cast out before the whole army: then he made a proclamation, that there was but one God in heaven, and one Sultan upon earth: Two days after he put Sultan Gobe to death, for that he had wept for his brother; and Sultan Mehemet the third brother, for that he fled for fear: leaving but one son living, to avoid the danger of many lords." -Jean Bodin
The state of Monarchy has to be asserted. The traditionalists hate the pre-eminence of one. They demand an Oligarchy, of myriad petty kinglets and nobles. They have an inability to understand Majesty as in a Monarchy. That's why Monarchy must be re-asserted with masterly power. That's why Homer & Caligula said, "Let there be one Lord, one King." There was a time when being king was among many other kings, and nothing especial with pre-eminence. Others consider this a natural state of kingship, back when there were many families, like Bossuet, but later coalesced into the grand estate of Monarchy, when a Monarch ruled supreme and brought the pre-eminence of one. The traditionalists today want to go back to myriad petty kings. "So also might we say of the state of Lacedemonians, which was a pure Oligarchy, wherein were two kings, without any sovereignty at all, being indeed nothing but Captains and Generals for the managing of their wars: and for that cause were by the other magistrates of the state, sometimes for their faults condemned to fines… And such were in ancient times the kings of the cities of the Gauls, whom Caesar for this cause oftentimes called Regulos, that is to say little kings: being themselves subjects, and justiciable unto the Nobility, who had all the sovereignty." -Jean Bodin
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My Monarchist Creed: Believe the Father provides for his children, that the Shepherd feeds his flock, and the Household management, That the political authority, sovereignty, State are Best expressed and organized by One ruler "Don't allow yourself to be governed; be the master. Never have a favorite or a prime minister. Listen, consult your Council, but decide yourself. God, who made you King, will give you all the guidance you need, as long as you have good intentions." -Louis XIV
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>>3683 If Internet monarchists could follow that creed, they would meet my standards. Wishful thinking... I only ask myself, why? why do these monarchists have a mental illness?
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But no. Monarchists... Words cannot describe the disappointment I feel. I've never found good company in monarchyfag circles. Not one person I could relate to.
>>3707 What exactly is the issue? Is someone attempting to appoint a council and usurp your God given authority? Now we are talking, allright so I'll round your rebels up, you execute em public like, and then I guess I'll take a minor title as a baron or something.
>>3708 >What exactly is the issue? Anon wouldn't know. But shilling absolutist monarchy in 2022 Is a lonesome ordeal w/ most monarchists Being constitutionalists, anarcho-monarchists, trads, or drinking from the NRx blogger collective piss bucket. Cannot relate with most of these "people".
>>3711 So convince them by your arguments? Anon every country which went the route of councils and prime ministers is now a burned out AIDS infested crater. Shouldn't be that hard to explain why.
>>3712 That's easier said than done. Most people are hardwired and stubborn. And it involves going against the grain.
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So, in short, the traditionalists have entirely abandoned and utterly betrayed the ideals of Monarchy, its pre-eminence, and its Majesty, the Royal Bond & political unity under one Sovereign Monarch like a great household, and disparaged the maxim that they ought to be of the same blood and suckled by the same milk that so characterized this bond between men. And these snobby traditionalists, looking with disdain and contempt, consider these Monarchist ideals to be vulgar and are having an Oligarchist orgy while reading the latest blog. So much so have these traditionalists completely failed, that North Korea outshines them, and even seems more complimentary to the pre-eminent ideals of Royal Monarchy as it should be. And everyone wonders why I detest and despise them.
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That's enough babysitting and raving. I will relax on /b/, but anons should learn to take complaints to the Royal Court and not the Grace thread.
Will anons list their favorite monarch?
>Me, every day >perpetual disappointment, like you couldn't believe >anger, frustration, breath-taking agony
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Monarchist politics has been terrible for my mental health. My disappointment with 99% of Monarchyfags. Has lead me to near-insanity. Repeating, over and over, like screaming at a wall. To be ostracized and taken for a fool. Talking to them is a pointless endeavor. They have an inability to understand.
Why the Royal pacifier is needed.
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Monarchs I like? Louis XIV King James VI & I Caligula Ramses II Emperor Peter I
>>3748 >Monarchist politics has been terrible for my >mental health. >My disappointment with 99% of >Monarchyfags. >Has lead me to near-insanity. >Repeating, over and over, like screaming at a >wall. >To be ostracized and taken for a fool. >Talking to them is a pointless endeavor. >They have an inability to understand. Said the guy that actually thinks imageboards and chatrooms are full of intelligent people... Rather than being cesspools that attract the most mentally ill members of all societies from across the world. >>3665 >Don't get me wrong. I've also had my humble origins from MM, but likewise prior to that had been drawn to monarchist politics for very practical reasons. Actually watched and liked murdoch murdoch. Is trying to debate the merits of monarchy on a loli/gamer/anime/pro-pedophile autistic homosexual shithole called 8chan.moe.
>>3750 >Caligula He apparently started off exemplary as far as Roman emperors go but then veered into pure insanity after being poisoned. In any case he was a more likeable person than his predecessor Tiberius.
>>3748 if you're expecting normal/sinciere discussions of politics from an imageboard where the diapershitting board is the most active board, you're just setting yourself up for failure
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>>3752 >thinks imageboards and chatrooms That's where you're wrong. I've been to imageboards, but also r/monarchism, royalist discords, blogs, twitter. And most of those monarchyfags disappointed me too. >>3754 I honestly prefer the diapershit / drama to when /monarchy/ actually tries to have sincere discussions of politics, ffs. That's how bad I am. >>3753 I like the stories of the so-called Mad Emperors. I like Caligula in particular because they accused him of aspiring to be a Monarch. When I say I "like" a Monarch, it doesn't always mean it's because they're some ideal "goody two shoes" ruler. It could also mean I just find their stories to be interesting. although I am guilty of having been a 'caligula apologist' before
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What is happening in Ukraine is why Eastern Europe needs a Tsar like Grace. She'd just give them all a spanking and make them calm the fuck down.
>>3771 >we need a Tsar
Extracts from Bossuet Monarchy is Best It is by the sole authority of government that union is established among men. This effect of legitimate command is marked to us by these words, so often repeated in the Scriptures: at the command of Saul, and of the legitimate authority "all Israel went out as one man. All the multitudes as one man, were forty-two thousand three hundred and sixty. Behold, such is the unity of a people, when each one renouncing his own will, transfers and reunites it to that of the prince and the magistrate. Otherwise there is no union; the people become wanderers, like a flock dispersed. "May the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, provide a man that may be over this multitude, and may go out and in before them, and may lead them out, or bring them in; lest the people of the Lord be as sheep without a shepherd." Thus the Sovereign Magistrate has in his hands all the strength of the nation, which submits to, and obeys him. "And they made answer to Joshua, and said: All that thou hast commanded us we will do: and withersoever thou shalt send us we will go. he that shall gainsay thy mouth, and not obey all thy words, that thou shalt command him, let him die; only take thou courage, and do manfullly All strength is transferred to the Sovereign Magistrate; every one strengthens him to the prejudice of his own, and renounces his own life in case of disobedience. The people gain by this; for they recover in the Person of the Supreme Magistrate more strength than they yielded for his authority, since they recover in him all the strength of the nation reunited to assist them. Thus an individual is at ease from oppression and violence, because in the Person of the Prince he has an invincible defender, and much stronger beyond comparison than all those who may undertake to oppress them. Monarchical government is the best. It is also the most opposed to division, which is the essential evil in states, and the most certain cause of their ruin… When states are formed, one seeks for unity, and one is never so unified as under a single leader. In addition one is never stronger, because everything happens in concert. Bossuet & Absolutism Royal authority is absolute… The prince need account to no one for what he ordains… "Observe the mouth of the King, and the commandments of the oath of God. Be not hasty from his face, and do not countinue in an evil work: for he will do all that pleaseth him. And his word is full of power; neither can any man say to him: Why dost thou so? He that keepth the commandment, shall find no evil." …Without this absolute authority, he can neither do good nor suppress evil: his power must be such that no one can hope to escape him; and, in fine, the sole defense of individuals against the public power, must be their innocence… This doctrine is in conformity with the saying of St. Paul: "Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good." This is what Ecclesiasticus is made to say: "Judge not against a judge." For still stronger reasons [one must not judge] against the sovereign judge who is the King. And the reason which is given is that, "he judgeth according to that which is just." It is not that he is always so judging, but that he is assumed to be so judging: and that no one has the right to judge or review after him. One must, then, obey princes as if they were justice itself, without which there is neither order nor justice in affairs… Only God can judge their judgments and their persons… It is for that reason that St. Gregory, Bishop of Tours, said to King Chilperic in a council: "We speak to you, but you listen to us only if you want to. If you do not want to, who will condemn you other than he who has that he was justice itself?" …It follows from this that he who does not want to obey the prince, is not sent to another tribunal; but he is condemned irremissibly to death as an enemy of public peace and of human society… "Whosoever shall refuse to obey all your orders, may he die." It is the people who speak thus to Joshua. Personal Power & Public Person; Majesty in Monarchy I do not call majesty that pomp which surrounds kings or that exterior magnificence which dazzles the vulgar. That is but the reflection of majesty and not majesty itself. Majesty is the image of the grandeur of God in the Prince… God is infinite, God is all. The Prince, as Prince, is not regarded as a private person: he is a public personage, all the State is in him; the will of all the People is included in his. As all perfection and all strength are united in God, so all the power of individuals is united in the Person of the Prince. What grandeur that a single man should embody so much! The power of God can be felt in a moment from one end of the world to the other: the royal power acts simultaneously throughout the Kingdom. It holds the whole Kingdom in position just as God holds the whole word… If God were to withdraw his hand, the entire world would return to nothing: if authority ceases in the Kingdom, all lapses into confusion… Consider the Prince in his cabinet. From thence flow the commands which coordinate the efforts of magistrates and captains, of citizens and soldiers, of provinces and armies, by land and by sea. It is the image of God, who directs all nature from his throne in the highest heaven. Finally, gather together all that we have said, so great and so august, about royal authority. You have seen a great nation united under one man: you have seen his sacred power, paternal and absolute: you have seen that secret reason which directs the Body Politic, enclosed in one head: you have seen the image of God in kings, and you will have the idea of majesty of kingship… God is holiness itself, goodness itself, power itself, reason itself. In these things consists the divine majesty. In their reflection consists the majesty of the Prince… So great is this majesty that its source cannot be found to reside in the prince: it is borrowed from God, who entrusts it to the Prince for the good of his People, to which end it is well that it be restrained by a higher power...
>>3806 Man. That is a lot of words, just to say you're really super gay.
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Nobody knows how much I regret my older reading lists. And how much I wish people would read the latest list. because the previous list is full of a lot of pandering to political groups and too blunt, and the latest one I consider to be more pure and straightforward
>>3809 You sound a bit cranky and like you need a nap.
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>>3810 I am always cranky.
>>3812 Then take a nap before confined to the Grace Timeout Dungeon
>>2288 The anon.cafe guys are making their soccer tournament again, how's about sending them a royal team?
>>3817 A Royal Team of Bedwetters
>>3820 /monarchbdl/ pride
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Philalethes: >Somewhat. I heard this Evening-Prayer from our Pastor in his Catechistical Expositions upon the fifth Commandment, Honor thy Father, and thy Mother: who taught, that under these pious and reverent appellations of Father and Mother are comprised not only our natural Parents, but likewise all higher Powers; and especially such as have Sovereign Authority, as the Kings and Princes of Earth. Theodidactus: <Is this Doctrine so strange unto you, as to make you muse thereat? Philalethes: >God forbid; for I am well assured of the truth thereof, both out of the Word of God, and from the Light of Reason. The Sacred Scriptures do style Kings and Princes the nursing Fathers of the Church, and therefore the nursing Fathers also of the Commonweal: these two Societies having so mutual a dependence, that the welfare of the one is the prosperity of the other. >And the Evidence of Reason teaches, that there is a stronger and higher bond of Duty between Children and the Father of their Country, than the Fathers of private Families. These procure the good only of a few, and not without the assistance and protection of the other, who are the common Foster-fathers of Families, of whole Nations and Kingdoms, that they may live under them an honest and peaceable life.
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Jean Bodin >As for the right of coining money, it is of the same nature as law, and only he who has the power to make law can regulate the coinage. That is readily evident from the Greek, Latin, and French terms, for the word nummus [in Latin] is from the Greek word nomos, and [the French] loi (law) is at the root of aloi (alloy), the first letter of which is dropped by those who speak precisely. Indeed, after law itself, there is nothing of greater consequence than the title, value, and measure of coins, as we have shown in a separate treatise, and in every well-ordered state, it is the sovereign prince alone who has this power. Thomas Hobbes >And the Right of Distribution of Them – The Distribution of the Materials of this Nourishment, is the constitution of Mine, and Thine, and His, that is to say, in one word Propriety; and belongs in all kinds of Commonwealth to the Sovereign power…. And this they well knew of old, who called that Nomos, (that is to say, Distribution,) which we call Law;m and defined Justice, by distributing to every man his own. >All Estates of Land Proceed Originally – From the Arbitrary Distribution of the Sovereign – In this Distribution, the First Law, is for Division of the Land itself: wherein the Sovereign assigns to every man a portion, according as he, and not according to any Subject, or any number of them, shall judge agreeable to Equity, and the Common Good. The Children of Israel, were a Commonwealth in the Wilderness, but wanted the commodities of the Earth, till they were masters of the Land of Promise, which afterward was divided amongst them, not by their own discretion, but by the discretion of Eleazar the Priest, and Joshua their General: Who when there were twelve Tribes, making them thirteen by subdivision of the Tribe of Joseph; made nevertheless but twelve portions of the Land… And though a People coming into possession of a land by war, do not always exterminate the ancient Inhabitants, (as did the Jews) but leave to many, or most, or all of them their Estates; yet it is manifest they hold them afterwards, as of the Victors distribution; as of the people of England held all theirs of William the Conquerour.
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K. James VI & I >To raise low things, and to make high things law at his pleasure, and to God are both soul and body due. And the like power have Kings: they make and unmake their subjects: they have power of raising, and casting down: of life, and of death: Judges over all their subjects, and in all causes, and yet accomptable to none but God only. They have power to exalt low things, and abase high things, and make of their subjects like men at the Chess; A pawn to take a Bishop or a Knight.
Anyone who doubts a well ordered state resembles a household– Remember: They don't call them public servants for nothing. resembling the relationship of master / slave
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Like DPRK mantra: The People are Masters and stresses a serving Party
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Pre-eminence in King Lear– King Lear Let it be so; thy truth, then, be thy dower: For, by the sacred radiance of the sun, The mysteries of Hecate, and the night; By all the operation of the orbs From whom we do exist, and cease to be; Here I disclaim all my paternal care, Propinquity and property of blood,I do invest you jointly with my power, [and] Pre-eminence, and all the large effects That troop with majesty. Ourself, by monthly course, With reservation of an hundred knights, By you to be sustain'd, shall our abode Make with you by due turns. Only we still retain The name, and all the additions to a king; The sway, revenue, execution of the rest, Beloved sons, be yours: which to confirm, This coronet part betwixt you.
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"To make sure that the resilient bonds between the Leader and the People get stronger and our People's reverence for the Leader become part of their ideological and moral traits." -North Korea
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>>3817 I would, but like last time... We need to design our team's uniforms...
>>3830 I'm the guy who made the /fast/ and /dup/ kits, just give me some names for the players and I can help you guys out
>>3830 Just need Grace cursing and swearing as a team manager. or in the patron box
>>3831 Grace Chan Louis XIV Henry VIII Charles II of Spain Caligula King Sejong >I'm the guy who made the /fast/ and /dup/ kits Last time we had the discussion, we agreed to maybe use Grace's outfit or colors as a uniform
>>3834 Does anyone want to recommend anymore potential players / monarchs for the team?
>>3834 Okay so listen to these: Home kit is Grace's uniform, which I assume it is a magenta recolour of Wilhelmina's outfit; Away kit is a simple white shirt with a fleur de lis, possibly with one of those foppish old white jackets royalty is generally depicted wearing, OR a kit comprised of a very intricate coat of arms; Goalkeeper's kit is a peasant looking shabby thing, think the outfits of the same unit in Total War.
>>3836 I approve, but without the white diagonal sash for the home kit.
"What is the purpose of autocracy? Not to deprive people of their natural freedom, but to guide their actions so as to attain the maximum good…" -Catherine II's Bolshoi Nakaz, no. 13 "The sovereign is absolute; for no other authority except that which is concentrated in his person can act appropriately in a state whose expanse is so vast." -Catherine II's Bolshoi Nakaz, no. 9 "Catherine cleansed autocracy of the stains of tyranny. This calmed men's hearts, and led to the development of secular pleasures, knowledge and reason." -Karamzin
>>3837 Alright, I dig it.
>>3836 What color of diapers will they wear?
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>>3841 Diaper Peasant is the goalie Also, Monbol Gang is another goalie
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>>3842 >3rd pic related I will never recognize monbol meme Because they never get the crown right. WRONG CROWN.
>>3843 I think it's part of the meme as a meme-ideology
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>mfw /leftypol/ visits /monarchy/?
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If leftists are visiting /monarchy/, be on good behavior and be mindful this is /monarchy/
>>3848 Is Commiecat playing for the team?
>>3851 They just want their litterbox changed.
>>3834 Are the first four medal players? As in, the most important players in the team?
>>3854 Yes.
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>>3834 ok so how bout this gk Monbol Gang lb Dante's De Monarchia (or just De Monarchia) cb Catherine II cb King Sejong rb KING Jong-Un lmf Caligula cmf Her Royal Majesty, Grace Chan GOLD CAPTAIN cmf Louis XIV SILVER cmf Charles II of Spain BRONZE rmf Henry VIII (more wives, milord?) BRONZE cf Tsar Nicholas II -------------------------------- gk Diaper Peasant gk Qin Shi Huang lb HUEY LONG (Every Man a King!) lb Prussian Glory cb Aristocunt (fuck aristocracy, made by the monarcho-gang) cb KING MSWATI III (WHO MUST GO?) cb Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud cb Democuck (democracy cuck) rb Emperor Puyi (Every King a Qing) rb Harry the Oildriller lmf Kaiser Wilhelm cf Victoria II from the hit game Victoria II which logo do you like?
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>>3857 I would ask for a basic shield. With a picture of Grace on it. Replace Catherine II with Philip the Fair Replace Kim Jong Un with Ramses II Replace Prussian Glory with Frederick II Replace Aristocunt with Suleiman I Replace Democuck with Charles V Replace Kaiser Wilhelm with King James I
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Mind you, I am the sole Aristocrat. & my Aristocracy is Monarchy. I am the Best. Because Aristocracy means "rule of the best" & like Bodin confirms, the Monarch is the Best. This isn't merely a nobility of myriad petty kings and nobles, when I refer to my Aristocracy. But like Darius in the Herodotus Debate: "Nothing can be found better than the rule of the best one." So there you have it. I am the best, the superlative, the majestic. >>3857 >cb Aristocunt (fuck aristocracy, made by the monarcho-gang) Monarchy is Aristocracy. Rule of the Best. What you mean to lampoon is "Rule of the Few", or in your particular case, the Nobility / Nobles. The proper term for these larpers is Oligarchists or Oligarchyfags. Keep in mind, this-- There is a difference between Oligarchy and Plutocracy. Oligarchy is rule of the few. Plutocracy is rule of the wealthy. Aristocracy is a word that could also be applied to Monarchy itself -- if the Monarch be the very best, and moreso than Oligarchy or Nobility (in your case), for being the best implies singularity and being one of a kind. I also never refer to the Nobility as the Aristocracy, esp. as others do exclusive from Monarchy or as one among equals. I call them the Nobility with emphasis on them being good. Monarchists ought to see the Monarchy as the Aristocracy, again, as Darius says, "Nothing better than the rule of the one best man."
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Let's go easy on the Monbol stuff. Yes, I like Kim Jong Un & North Korea This board should be Monarchy first and foremost. With the emphasis on royalty. That's our public image. even if I think KJU / North Korea "get" Monarchy better than 85% of monarchists
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>>3860 The monbol stuff is meant to lampoon the grace x alunya pictures
>>3862 Which of the two should we use for the anthem? We also need a theme for whenever we score
>>3864 How about an instrumental God Save the King https://invidious.lunar.icu/watch?v=RMBaUAMwalQ for anthem and Vive Henry for the goal?
>>3864 >>3865 Here's my choice-- Vive la race de nos Rois for anthem Prince of Denmark's March / Trumpet Voluntary for goal.
Or, alternatively, Haendel : Zadok the Priest for anthem & Publions En Tous Lieux for goal.

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States are defined by an individual, indivisible, and majestic power, called Sovereignty, being the unity itself and the supreme power. To be a Monarch is to be supreme. Political Supremacy is the foundation of political order.
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Any update on the /monarchy/ icup team? I might go visit /icup/ myself... but do we have a logo and uniform ready?
>>3875 >Any update on the /monarchy/ icup team? Read the thread, it's coming along nicely
>>3875 Kit Haberdasher here, sorry if I didn't update you guys much but I'm kind of busy with some work related stuff. I will work on the kits though, worry not. In the mean time, >>3858 suggested something nice, I remember some OC for Grace Chan drawn in the style of Super Mario 64's stained glass windows. How about using that and mixing it with the emblems up there?
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>>3877 I would recommend a simple shield. Maybe like this?
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>>3877 Let me recommend a few Grace images.
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>>3879 These might look good on a shield... Unfortunately, we have nothing themed correctly for /icup/ or sports.
>>3878 >>3877 Shield could be purple themed?
/icup/ anon has permission to overall design the shield / emblem. I'm going to rest.
What color are the pampers though?
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>>3885 >>3886 I am thinking Grace or Louis XIV on a shield. With /monarchy/. Colors would be-- Purple and White or Purple and Gold I might find someone to design a shield... Or >>3877 this anon who is setting up our team and kits might volunteer.
>>3878 >>3879 I still love the idea of the stainless glass as part of the logo
monarchy /icup/ anthem & goalhorn
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Here is a shield someone designed for us. Now we need those kits. Maybe we will revise the team and players too.
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>>3890 I like the idea but I would like to change it a bit if you do not mind
>>3898 I don't mind.
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>>3898 Howzzat?
>>3900 It's okay. You can go ahead and use it.
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>>3901 Sorry for the wait! Got sidetracked by projects and a bunch of vidya. I decided to be more pragmatic with the colors for this one and thought it would be pretty befitting of a royal team to dress in Prussian blue. I hope they're to your likings! I have yet to work on the goalie though.
>>3904 Pretty nice
>>3904 These look excellent -- I'm not sure how to arrange sports teams. I think the well known names should get important positions. We have a kit, music, players, logo, are we ready?
>>3907 These kits >>3904 are good, but you're missing one for the GK.
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>>3824 Dante Alighieri And I urge you not only to rise up to meet him, but to stand in reverent awe before his presence, ye who drink of his streams, and sail upon his seas; ye who tread the sands of the shores and the summits of the mountains that are his; ye who enjoy all public rights and possess all private property by the bond of his law, and no otherwise. Be ye not like the ignorant, deceiving your own selves, after the manner of them that dream, and say in their hearts, 'We have no Lord'.
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>>3904 >>3909 Any updates on this?
>>3916 I'm curious too, but not sure.
>>3904 Shaped a bit like a diaper being spread out.
>>3909 >>3918 If diaperfags contributed that GK uniform, I wouldn't complain.
Just remember if Grace loses she gets spanked by the other board-tans.
>>3916 >>3917 Sorry about that I've been through a bunch of work related stuff, I have not forgotten about the request and I'll work on it asap
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>>3923 Are there any updates on this?
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>>3932 Grace really needs a teddy.
>>3932 Grace really needs a teddy.
>>3932 Grace really needs a teddy.
>>3932 Grace really needs a teddy.
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I found that the other monarchist girl avatar is increasingly popular on /pol/.
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I'm not sure whether Grace should be friends with or rivaled by the other monarchist Romanov avatar.
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Grace was 2018. I know the other Romanov avatar has been around for sometime.
>Wherefore we conclude the majesty of a prince to be in nothing altered or diminished by the calling together or presence of the states: but to the contrary his majesty thereby to be much greater. Jean Bodin >The People is somewhat ths is one, having one will, and to whom one action may be attributed. The People rules in all Governments, for even in Monarchies the people Commands; for the People will by the will of one man >This done, the Multitude so united in one Person, is called a COMMON-WEALTH, in latine CIVITAS. This is the Generation of that great LEVIATHAN, or rather (to speak more reverently) of that Mortal God, to which we owe under the Immortal God, our peace and defense. Thomas Hobbes >Even if 10 million people speak, it's the voice of One >Even if walking in 10 million ranks, it's the step of One >Now concord is the uniform movement of many wills; and unity of will, which we mean by uniform movement, is the root of concord, or rather concord itself. For just as we should call many clods concordant because all descend together toward the centre, and many flames concordant because they ascend together to the circumference, as if they did this voluntarily, so we call many men concordant because they move together by their volition to one end formally present in their wills… All concord depends upon unity in wills; mankind is at its best in concord of a certain king. For just as one man at his best in body and spirit is a concord of a certain kind, and as a household, a city, and a kingdom is likewise a concord, so it is with mankind in its totality. Therefore the human race for its best disposition is dependent on unity in wills. But this state of concord is impossible unless one will dominates and guides all others into unity Dante Alighieri >One for All, All for One
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I did the research. The other character is known as Альфа1918 / Alpha 1918? The earliest I could trace the origin is June 5th in 2018. Grace is roughly the same age in origin, the earliest known date I can recall is May 2018, but might be earlier…
Thomas Hobbes on Instruction / Propaganda (basically) for those people who talk about institutional control and propaganda today: >"Another thing necessary, is rooting out from the consciences of men all those opinions which seem to justify, and give pretense of right to rebellious actions… that there is a body of the people without him or them that have the sovereign power… and because opinions which are gotten by education, and in length of time are made habitual, cannot be taken away by force, and upon the sudden: they must therefore be taken away also, by time and education. And seeing the said opinions have proceeded from private and public teaching, and those teachers have received from grounds and principles, which they have learned in the Universities…" >"Instruction of the people in the essential rights which are the natural and fundamental laws of sovereignty… it is his duty to cause them [his subjects] to be instructed; and not only his duty, but his benefit also." >"Whereas the common people's minds, unless they be tainted with dependence on the potent, or scribbled over with the opinions of their doctors, are like clean paper, fit to receive whatsoever the public authority shall be imprinted in them." >"But Kings are the Fathers of Families… [the Public Good / education of subjects], the care of which they stand so long charged withal, as they retain any other essential Right of the Sovereignty." (from the context of Pastors / schoolmasters / public education & propaganda) >And, to descend to particulars, the people are to be taught, first, that they ought not to be in love with any form of government that they see in their neighbor nations, more than with their own, nor, whatsoever present prosperity they behold in nations that are otherwise governed than they, to desire change. For the prosperity of a people ruled by an oligarchical or democratical assembly comes not from Oligarchy, nor from Democracy, but from the obedience and concord of the subjects: nor do the people flourish in Monarchy because one man the has right to rule them, but because they obey him. Take away in any kind of state the obedience, and consequently the concord of the people, and they shall not flourish, but in short time be dissolved. And they that go about by disobedience to do no more than reform the Commonwealth shall find they do thereby destroy it; like the foolish daughters of Peleus, in the fable, which desiring to renew the youth of their decrepit father, did by the counsel of Medea cut him in pieces and boil him, together with strange herbs, but made not of him a new man. This desire of change is like the breach of the first of God's Commandments: for there God says, Non habebis Deos alienos: "Thou shalt not have the Gods of other nations," and in another place concerning kings, that they are gods. >For he that deserteth the Means, deserteth the Ends; and he deserteth the Means, that being the Soveraign, acknowledgeth himselfe subject to the Civill Lawes; and renounceth the Power of Supreme Judicature; or of making Warre, or Peace by his own Authority; or of Judging of the Necessities of the Common-wealth; or of levying Mony, and Souldiers, when, and as much as in his own conscience he shall judge necessary; or of making Officers, and Ministers both of Warre, and Peace; or of appointing Teachers, and examining what Doctrines are conformable, or contrary to the Defence, Peace, and Good of the people. Secondly, it is against his duty, to let the people be ignorant, or mis-in-formed of the grounds, and reasons of those his essentiall Rights; because thereby men are easie to be seduced, and drawn to resist him, when the Common-wealth shall require their use and exercise. >I conclude therefore, that in the instruction of the people in the Essentiall Rights (which are the Naturall, and Fundamentall Lawes) of Soveraignty, there is no difficulty, (whilest a Soveraign has his Power entire,) but what proceeds from his own fault, or the fault of those whom he trusteth in the administration of the Common-wealth; and consequently, it is his Duty, to cause them so to be instructed; and not onely his Duty, but his Benefit also, and Security, against the danger that may arrive to himselfe in his naturall Person, from Rebellion. The Use of Universities >As for the Means, and Conduits, by which the people may receive this Instruction, wee are to search, by what means so may Opinions, contrary to the peace of Man-kind, upon weak and false Principles, have neverthelesse been so deeply rooted in them… It is therefore manifest, that the Instruction of the people, dependeth wholly, on the right teaching of Youth in the Universities.
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>>3960 Nor Adhere (Against The Soveraign) To Popular Men >Secondly, they are to be taught, that they ought not to be led with admiration of the vertue of any of their fellow Subjects, how high soever he stand, nor how conspicuously soever he shine in the Common-wealth; nor of any Assembly, (except the Soveraign Assembly,) so as to deferre to them any obedience, or honour, appropriate to the Soveraign onely, whom (in their particular stations) they represent; nor to receive any influence from them, but such as is conveighed by them from the Soveraign Authority. For that Soveraign, cannot be imagined to love his People as he ought, that is not Jealous of them, but suffers them by the flattery of Popular men, to be seduced from their loyalty, as they have often been, not onely secretly, but openly, so as to proclaime Marriage with them In Facie Ecclesiae by Preachers; and by publishing the same in the open streets:
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I wonder if this board will join /icup/.
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>>3963 You are, pic related. The only thing missing is that anon finishing the last uniform.
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I hope to collaborate with Alpha Chan someday.
>>3973 In a R34 capacity?
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From An Appeal to Caesar wherein gold & silver is proved to be the King Majesty's royal commodity by Thomas Violet >The Gold and Silver of the Nation, either Foreign coin, or Ingot, or the current Coin of the Kingdom, is the Soul of the Militia, and so all wise men know it, that those that command the Gold and Silver of the Kingdom, either Coin, or Bullion, to have it free at their disposal, to be Judges of the conveniency and inconveniency, or to hinder, or to give leave to transport Gold and Silver at their pleasure, is the great Wheel of the State, a most Royal Prerogative inherent in Your Majesty, Your Heirs and Successors, (and none other whomsoever, but by Your Majesty's License, and cannot be parted with to any Persons, but by Your Majesty most especial Grant;) your Majesty, and your Privy Councel being by the Law the only proper Judges. Disease of Commonwealth; Obstruction of Veins and Blood Flow [Keep in mind for context of the English Civil Wars & Charles I, along w/ the term power of the purse] By Thomas Hobbes >Hitherto I have named such Diseases of a Common-wealth, as are of the greatest, and most present danger. There be other, not so great; which neverthelesse are not unfit to be observed. As first, the difficulty of raising Mony, for the necessary uses of the Common-wealth; especially in the approach of warre. This difficulty ariseth from the opinion, that every Subject hath of a Propriety in his lands and goods, exclusive of the Soveraigns Right to the use of the same. From whence it commeth to passe, that the Soveraign Power, which foreseeth the necessities and dangers of the Common-wealth, (finding the passage of mony to the publique Treasure obstructed, by the tenacity of the people,) whereas it ought to extend it selfe, to encounter, and prevent such dangers in their beginnings, contracteth it selfe as long as it can, and when it cannot longer, struggles with the people by strategems of Law, to obtain little summes, which not sufficing, he is fain at last violently to open the way for present supply, or Perish; and being put often to these extremities, at last reduceth the people to their due temper; or else the Common-wealth must perish. Insomuch as we may compare this Distemper very aptly to an Ague; wherein, the fleshy parts being congealed, or by venomous matter obstructed; the Veins which by their naturall course empty themselves into the Heart, are not (as they ought to be) supplyed from the Arteries, whereby there succeedeth at first a cold contraction, and trembling of the limbes; and afterwards a hot, and strong endeavour of the Heart, to force a passage for the Bloud; and before it can do that, contenteth it selfe with the small refreshments of such things as coole of a time, till (if Nature be strong enough) it break at last the contumacy of the parts obstructed, and dissipateth the venome into sweat; or (if Nature be too weak) the Patient dyeth. >Again, there is sometimes in a Common-wealth, a Disease, which resembleth the Pleurisie; and that is, when the Treasure of the Common-wealth, flowing out of its due course, is gathered together in too much abundance, in one, or a few private men, by Monopolies, or by Farmes of the Publique Revenues; in the same manner as the Blood in a Pleurisie, getting into the Membrane of the breast, breedeth there an Inflammation, accompanied with a Fever, and painfull stitches. >Another infirmity of a Common-wealth, is the immoderate greatnesse of a Town, when it is able to furnish out of its own Circuit, the number, and expence of a great Army: As also the great number of Corporations; which are as it were many lesser Common-wealths in the bowels of a greater, like wormes in the entrayles of a naturall man. I love the term Body-Politic and comparison of human politics to the human anatomy.
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Dialogue Hobbes speaks through P >L: But I know, that there be statutes express, whereby the King hath obliged himself never to levy money upon his subjects without the consent of his Parliament. One of which statutes is 25 Edw. 1. c. 5, in these words: We have granted for us, and our heirs, as well to archbishops, bishops, abbots, priors, and other folk of holy Church, as also to earls, barons, and to all the commonalty of the land, that for no business from henceforth, we shall take such aids, tasks, or prizes, but by the common consent of the realm. There is also another have been since that time confirmed by diverse other Kings, and lastly by the King that now reigneth. >L: In the said statutes that restrain the levying of money without consent of Parliament, is there any thing you can take exceptions to? >P: No, I am satisfied that kings that grant such liberties, are bound to make them good, so far as it may be done without sin: but if a King find that by such grant he be disabled to protect his subjects, if he maintain his grant, he sins; and therefore may, and ought to take no notice of the said grant. For such grants, as by error or false suggestion are gotten from him, are, as the lawyers do confess, void and of no effect, and ought to be recalled. Also the King, as in on all hands confessed, hath the charge lying upon him to protect his people against foreign enemies, and to keep the peace betwixt them within the kingdom: if he do not his utmost endeavour to discharge himself thereof, he committeth a sin. >P: Nor do I hereby lay any aspersion upon such grants of the King and his ancestors. Those statutes are in themselves very good for the King and the people, as creating some kind of difficulty for such Kings as, for the glory of conquest, might spend one part of their subjects' lives and estates in molesting other nations, and leave the rest to destroy themselves at home by factions. That which I here find fault with, is the wrestling of those, and other such statutes, to the binding of our Kings from the use of their armies in the necessary defense of themselves and their people. The late Long Parliament, that in 1648 murdered their King, (a King that sought no greater glory upon earth, but to be indulgent to his people, and a pious defender of the Church of England,) no sooner took upon them the sovereign power, than they levied money upon the people at their own discretion. Did any of their subjects dispute their power? Did they not send soldiers over the sea to subdue Ireland, and others to fight against the Dutch at sea; or made they any doubt but to be obeyed in all that they commanded, as a right absolutely due to the sovereign power in whomsoever it resides? I say not this as following their actions, but as testimony from the mouths of those very men that denied the same power to him whom they acknowledged to have been their sovereign immediately before >P: I know what it is that troubles your conscience in this point. All men are troubled at the crossing of their wishes; but it is our own fault. First, we wish impossibilities; we would have our security against all the world upon right of property, without paying for it; this is impossible. We may as well expect that fish and fowl should boil, roast, and dish themselves, and come to the table, and that grapes should squeeze themselves into our mouths, and have all other contentments and ease which some pleasant men have related of the land of Cocagne. Secondly, there is no nation in the world where he or they that have the sovereignty, do not take what money they please for the defense of those respective nations, when they think it necessary for their safety. The late Long Parliament denied this; but why? Because there was a design amongst them to depose the King. Thirdly, there is no example of any King of England that I have read of, that ever pretended any such necessity for levying money against his conscience. The greatest sums that ever were levied, comparing the value of money, as it was at that time, with what it is now, were levied by King Edward III and King Henry V; kings in whom we glory now, and think their actions great ornaments to the English history >P: All this I know, and am not satisfied. I am one of the common people, and one of that almost infinite number of men, for whose welfare Kings and other sovereigns were by God ordained: for God made Kings for the people, and not people for Kings. How shall I be defended from the domineering of proud and insolent strangers that speak another language, that scorn us, that seek to make us slaves, or how shall I avoid the destruction that may arise from the cruelty of factions in civil war, unless the King, to whom alone, you say, belongeth the right of levying and disposing of the militia by which only it can be prevented, have ready money, upon all occasions, to arm and pay as many soldiers, as for the present defense, or the peace of the people, shall be necessary? Shall not I, and you, and every man, be undone? Tell me not of a Parliament, when there is no Parliament sitting, or perhaps none in being, which may often happen. And when there is a Parliament, if the speaking and leading men should have a design to put down monarchy, as they had in the Parliament which began to sit the third of November, 1640, shall the King, who is to answer to God Almighty for the safety of the people, and to that end is intrusted with the power to levy and dispose of soldiery, be disabled to perform his office, by virtue of these acts of Parliament which you have cited? >And by that means the most men, knowing their Duties, will be the less subject to serve the Ambition of a few discontented persons, in their purposes against the State; and be the less grieved with the Contributions necessary for their Peace, and Defence; and the Governours themsleves have the less cause, to maintain at the Common charge any greater Army, than is necessary to make good the Publique Liberty, against the Invasions and Encroachments of foraign Enemies
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Jean Bodin on the same >As for the right to impose taxes, or imposts upon the subjects, is as proper unto sovereign majesty, as is the law it self: not for that Commonwealth cannot stand without taxes and tallages, as the President the M. hath well noted, that taxes were not levied in this realm, but since the time of Saint Louis the king. But if it must needs be that they must for the public necessity be levied or taken away; it cannot be done but by him that hath the sovereign power; as it hath been judged and by a decree of parliament, against the duke of Burgundy; and many times since, aswell in the high court of parliament, as also in the privy council. >But here might some object and say, "That the estates of England suffer not any extraordinary charges and subsidies to be laid upon them, if it be not first agreed upon and consented unto in the high court of parliament: for so it is provided by an ancient law of Edward the first, king of England, wherewith the people as with a buckler hath been oftentimes seen to defend itself against the prince. Whereunto mine answer is, "That the other kings have in this point no more power than the kings of England: for that it is not in the power of any prince in the world, at his pleasure to taise taxes upon the people, no more than to take another man's goods from him; as Philip Commines wisely showed in the parliment holden at Tours, as we read in his Commentaries: and yet nevertheless if the necessity of the Commonwealth be such as cannot stay for the calling of a parliament, in that case the prince ought not to expect the assembly of the states, neither the consent of the people; of whose good foresight and wisdom, next unto God, the health & welfare of the whole state dependeth. >And yet for all that the just Monarchy, hath not any more assured foundation or stay, than the Estates of the people, Communities, Corporations, and Colleges: For if need be for the king to levy money, to raise forces, to maintain the Estate against the enemy, it cannot be better done, than by the estates of the people, and of every Province, Town, and Community. For where can things for the curing of the diseases of sick Commonwealth, and of the members thereof; there are heard and understood the just reforming of the Estate, be better debated and handled, than before the Prince in his Senate before the people? There they confer of the affairs concerning the whole body of the Commonwealth, and of the members thereof; there are heard and understood the just complaints and grievances of the poor subjects, which never otherwise come unto the prince's ears; there are discovered and laid open the robberies and extortions committed in the Prince's name; whereof he knoweth nothing, there the requests of all degrees of men are heard. Besides that, it is almost a thing incredible to say, how much the subjects are eased, and how well they are also pleased, to see their king to sit as chief in the assembly of the estates, and to hear him discouring; how every man desirabeth to be seen of him, and if it please him to hear their complaints, and to receive their requests, albeit that they be often times denied the same; yet O how it pleaseth them to have had access unto their Prince…[Although] Our Kings do not so often call together the assemblies of their estates, as do the kings of England.
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>Dante Alighieri Letters Political Letter V >Part 1 To all and singular the Princes of Italy, and the Senators of the Sacred City, as also the Dukes, Marquises, Counts, and Peoples, a humble Italian, Dante Alighieri, a Florentine undeservedly in exile, prayeth peace. Behold now is the accepted time, wherein arise the signs of consolation and peace. For a new day beginning to break, revealing the dawn in the East, which even now is dispersing the darkness of our long tribulation. Already the orient breeze is freshening, the face of the heavens grows rosy, and confirms the hopes of the peoples with an auspicious calm. And we too, who have kept vigil through the long night in the wilderness, shall behold the long-awaited joy. For the Sun of peace shall appear on high, and justice which, like the heliotrope, deprived of his light, had grown faint, so soon as he shall dart forth his rays, once more shall revive. All they that hunger and thirst shall be satisfied in the light of his radiance, and they that delight in iniquity shall be put to confusion before the face of his splendour. For the strong lion of the tribe of Judah hath lifted up his ears in compassion, and moved by the lamentations of the multitudes in captivity hath raised up another Moses, who shall deliver his people from the oppression of the Egyptians, and shall lead them to a land flowing with milk and honey. Rejoice, therefore, O Italy, thou that art now an object of pity even to the Saracens, for soon shalt thou be the envy of the whole world, seeing that thy bridegroom, the comfort of the nations, and the glory of thy people, even the most clement Henry, Elect of God and Augustus and Caesar, is hastening to the wedding. Dry thy tears, and wipe away the stains of thy weeping, most beauteous one; for he is at hand who shall bring thee forth from the prison of the ungodly, and shall smite the workers of iniquity with the edge of the sword, and shall destroy them. And his vineyard shall he let out to other husbandmen, who shall render the fruit of justice in the time of harvest. But will he then have mercy on none ? Nay, for he will pardon all those who implore his mercy, since he is Caesar, and his sovereignty derives from the fountain of pity. His judgements abhor all severity, for he punishes ever on this side the mean, while in rewarding he aims ever beyond the mean. Will he then countenance the daring of the evil-doers, and drink success to the undertakings of the presumptuous? Far be it, for he is Augustus. And being Augustus shall he not take vengeance for the evil deeds of the backsliders, and pursue them even unto Thessaly, the Thessaly, I say, of utter annihilation? Put off from you, ye Lombard race, the barbarism ye have acquired, and if aught of Trojan and Latin seed yet survive in you, give heed thereto, lest when the eagle from on high, swooping down like a thunderbolt, shall descend upon you, he find his own young cast out, and the place of his offspring usurped by a brood of ravens. Up then, ye sons of Scandinavia, and so far as ye may show yourselves eager for the presence of him whose advent ye now justly await with dread. And be not deceived by the wiles of avarice, which with a charm as of the Sirens of old is able to destroy the vigilance of your reason. Come before his presence with confession, submitting yourselves unto him, and sing a psalm of repentance unto him with joy, remembering that 'whosoever resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God'; and that whoso fighteth against the divine ordinance, kicketh against a will which is as the will of the Almighty; and 'it is hard to kick against the pricks'. But ye that groan under oppression, lift up your hearts, for your salvation is nigh at hand. Take the mattock of true humility, and break up the parched clods of your pride, making smooth the field of your minds, lest perchance the rain from heaven, coming before the seed has been sown, fall in vain from on high. Let not the grace of God be turned from you, as is the daily dew from the rock, but may ye conceive like a fertile valley, and put forth green, the green, that is, which shall be fruitful of true peace. And when your land shall be green with this verdure, the new husbandman of the Romans with greater love and more confidence shall yoke the oxen of his counsel to the plough. Forbear, forbear, from henceforth, well-beloved, who with me have suffered wrong, that the shepherd descended from Hector may recognize you as sheep of his fold. For though the temporal chastisement be committed to his hands from above, yet that he may be redolent of the goodness of Him, from whom, as from a point, the power of Peter and of Caesar doth bifurcate, he delighteth him in the correction of his household, but delighteth him yet more in showing them compassion. Wherefore if ye be not hindered by that inveterate sin, which oft-times, like a serpent, is thrown on its back, and is turned against itself, ye may hence both the one and the other of you perceive that peace is prepared for each one, and may even now taste the first-fruits of the unlooked for joy.
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Political Letter V >Part 2 Awake, therefore, all of you, and rise up to meet your King, ye inhabitants of Italy, as being reserved not only as subjects unto his sovereignty, but also as free peoples unto his guidance. And I urge you not only to rise up to meet him, but to stand in reverent awe before his presence, ye who drink of his streams, and sail upon his seas; ye who tread the sands of the shores and the summits of the mountains that are his; ye who enjoy all public rights and possess all private property by the bond of his law, and no otherwise. Be ye not like the ignorant, deceiving your own selves, after the manner of them that dream, and say in their hearts, 'We have no Lord'. For all within the compass of the heavens is his garden and his lake; 'for the sea is God's, and He made it, and His hands prepared the dry land'. Wherefore it is made manifest by the wonders that have been wrought that God ordained the Roman Prince beforehand, and the Church confesses that He afterward confirmed him by the word of the Word. Verily if 'from the creation of the world the invisible things of God are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made', and if through the things that are known those that are unknown are revealed to us, it is without doubt within the capacity of human understanding to comprehend the Mover of the heavens,and His will, from the motion thereof. This pre-ordination then will be readily apprehended even by such as are but casual observers. For if we survey the past, from the first tiny spark of this fire, namely from the day when hospitality was denied to the Argives by the Phrygians, and, if time allow, review the events of the world's history down to the triumphs of Octavian, we shall see that certain of them have altogether transcended the highest pitch of human effort, and that God at times has wrought through man as though through new heavens. For it is not always we who act, but sometimes we are the instruments of God; and the human will, in which liberty is by nature inherent, at times receives direction untrammelled by earthly affections, and subject to the Eternal Will oft-times unconsciously becomes the minister thereof. And if these things, which are as it were the preliminaries for the proof of what we seek, do not suffice, who is there who will not be compelled to agree with me in the conclusion drawn from such premisses, namely the fact that the whole world was wrapped in peace for twelve years, whereby is revealed, as with accomplished fact, the face of its Syllogizer, namely the Son of God? And He, when, after He had been made man for the revelation of the Spirit, He was preaching the gospel upon earth, as if He were dividing.two kingdoms, apportioned the world to Himself and to Caesar, and bade that to each should be rendered the things that are his. But if an obstinate mind does nut yet assent to the truth, and demands further proof, let it consider the words of Christ when He was bound; for when Pilate asserted his power against Him, our Light declared that power to be from above, of which he boasted who was exercising the office of Caesar by vicarious authority. 'Walk ye not therefore as the Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their senses, shrouded in darkness'; but open ye the eyes of your mind and behold how the Lord of heaven and of earth hath appointed us a king. This is he whom Peter, the Vicar of God, exhorts us to honour, and whom Clement, the present successor of Peter, illumines with the light of the Apostolic benediction; that where the spiritual ray suffices not, there the splendour of the lesser luminary may lend its light.
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Political Letter VI >Part 1 Dante Alighieri, a Florentine undeservedly in exile, to the most iniquitous Florentines within the city. Written from beneath the springs of Arno, on the confines of Tuscany, on the thirty-first day of March in the first year of the most auspicious passage of the Emperor Henry into Italy. The gracious providence of the Eternal King, who in his goodness ever rules the affairs of the world above, yet ceases not to look down upon our concerns here below, committed to the Holy Roman Empire the governance of human affairs, to the end that mankind might repose in the peace of so powerful a protection, and everywhere, as nature demands, might live as citizens of an ordered world. And though the proof of this is to be found in holy writ, and though the ancients relying on reason alone bear witness thereto, yet is it no small confirmation of the truth, that when the throne of Augustus is vacant, the whole world goes out of course, the helmsman and rowers slumber in the ship of Peter, and unhappy Italy, forsaken and abandoned to private control, and bereft of all public guidance, is tossed with such buffeting of winds and waves as no words can describe, nay as even the Italians in their woe can scarce measure with their tears. Wherefore let all who in mad presumption have risen up against this most manifest will of God, now grow pale at the thought of the judgement of the stern Judge, which is nigh at hand, if so be the sword of Him who saith, 'Vengeance is mine', be not fallen out of heaven. But you, who transgress every law of God and man, and whom the insatiable greed of avarice has urged all too willing into every crime, does the dread of the second death not haunt you, seeing that you first and you alone, shrinking from the yoke of liberty, have murmured against the glory of the Roman Emperor, the king of the earth, and minister of God; and under cover of prescnptive right, refusing the duty of submission due to him, have chosen rather to rise up in the madness of rebellion? Have you to learn, senseless and perverse as you are, that public right can be subject to no reckoning by prescription, but must endure so long as time itself endures? Verily the sacred precepts of the law declare, and human reason after inquiry has decided, that public control of affairs, however long neglected, can never become of no effect, nor be superseded, however much it be weakened. For nothing which tends to the advantage of all can be destroyed, or even impaired, without injury to all – a thing contrary to the intention of God and nature, and which would be utterly abhorrent to the opinion of all mankind. Wherefore, then, being disabused of such an idle conceit, do you abandon the Holy Empire, and, like the men of Babel once more, seek to found new kingdoms, so that there shall be one polity of Florence, and another of Rome? And why should not the Apostolic government be the object of a like envy, so that, if the one twin of Delos have her double in the heavens, the other should have his likewise? But if reflection upon your evil designs bring you no fears, at least let this strike terror into your hardened hearts, that as the penalty for your crime not only wisdom, but the beginning of wisdom, has been taken from you. For no condition of the sinner is more terrible than that of him who, shamelessly and without the fear of God, does whatsoever he lists. Full often, indeed, the wicked man is smitten with this punishment, that as during life he has been oblivious of God, so when he dies he is rendered oblivious of himself. But if your insolent arrogance has so deprived you of the dew from on high, like the mountain-tops of Gilboa, that you have not feared to resist the decree of the eternal senate, and have felt no fear at not having feared, shall that deadly fear, to wit human and worldly fear, not overwhelm you, when the inevitable shipwreck of your proud race, and the speedy end of your deeply to be rued lawlessness, shall be seen to be hard at hand? Do you put your trust in defences, in that you are girt about by a contemptible rampant? O you of one mind only for evil! O you blinded by wondrous greed! What shall it avail you to have girt you with a rampant, and to have fortified yourselves with bulwarks and battlements, when, terrible in gold, the eagle shall swoop down upon you, which, soaring now over the Pyrenees, now over Caucasus, now over Atlas, ever strengthened by the support of the host of heaven, gazed down of old on the vast expanse of ocean in its flight? What shall these avail you, most wretched of men, when you stand confounded in the presence of him who shall subdue the raging of Hesperia?
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Political Letter VI >Part 2 The hopes which you vainly cherish in your unreason will not be furthered by your rebellion; but by this resistance the just wrath of the king at his coming will be but the more inflamed against you, and mercy, which ever accompanies his army, shall fly away indignant; and where you think to defend the threshold of false liberty, there is sooth shall you fall into the dungeon of slavery. For by the wondrous judgement of God, as we must believe, it sometimes comes to pass that by the very means whereby the wicked man thinks to escape the punishment which is his due, he is the more fatally hurried into it; and that he who wittingly and willingly is a rebel against the divine will, is unwittingly and unwillingly a soldier in its service. The buildings which you have raised, not in prudence to serve your needs, but have recklessly altered to gratify your wantonness, these, encircled by no walls of a renovated Troy, to your grief you shall see crumble beneath the battering-ram, and devoured by the flames The populace which now, divided against itself, rages indiscriminately, some for you, some against you, you shall then see united in their imprecations against you, for the starving mob knows nothing of fear. With remorse, too, you shall behold the spoliation of your temples, thronged daily by a concourse of matrons, and your children doomed in wonder and ignorance to suffer for the sins of their fathers. And if my prophetic soul be not deceived, which announces what it has been taught by infallible signs and incontrovertible arguments, your city, worn out with ceaseless mourning, shall be delivered at the last into the hands of the stranger, after the greatest part of you has been destroyed in death or captivity; and the few that shall be left to endure exile shall witness her downfall with tears and lamentation. Those sufferings, in short, which for liberty's sake the glorious city of Saguntum endured in her loyalty, you in your disloyalty must undergo with shame but to become slaves. And beware of gathering confidence from the unlooked for success of the men of Parma, who under the spur of hunger, that evil counsellor, murmuring to one another, 'Let us rather rush into the midst of battle and meet death', broke into the camp of Caesar while Caesar was absent. For even they, though they gained a victory over Victoria, none the less reaped woe from that woe in a way not like to be forgotten. But bethink you of the thunderbolts of the first Frederick; consider the fate of Milan and of Spoleto; for at the remembrance of their disobedience and swift overthrow your too swollen flesh shall grow chilI, and your too hot hearts shall contract. O most foolish of the Tuscans, insensate alike by nature and by corruption, who neither consider nor understand in your ignorance how before the eyes of the full-fledged the feet of your diseased minds go astray in the darkness of night! For the full-fledged and undefiled in the way behold you standing as it were on the threshold of the prison, and thrusting aside any that has pity on you, lest haply he should deliver you from captivity and loose you from the chains that bind your hands and your feet. Nor are ye ware in your blindness of the overmastering greed which beguiles you with venomous whispers, and with cheating threats constrains you, yea, and has brought you into captivity to the law of sin, and forbidden you to obey the most sacred laws; those laws made in the likeness of natural justice, the observance whereof, if it be joyous, if it be free, is not only no servitude, but to him who observes with understanding is manifestly in itself the most perfect liberty. For what else is this liberty but the free passage from will to act, which the laws make easy for those who obey them? Seeing, then, that they only are free who of their own will submit to the law, what do you call yourselves, who, while you make pretence of a love of liberty, in defiance of every law conspire against the Prince who is the giver of the law? O most wretched offshoot of Fiesole! 0 barbarians punished now a second time! Does the foretaste not suffice to terrify you? Of a truth I believe that, for you simulate hope in your looks and lying lips, yet you tremble in your waking hours, and ever start from your dreams in terror at the portents which have visited you, or rehearsing again the counsels you have debated by day. But if, while alarmed with good reason, you repent you of your madness, yet feel no remorse, then, that the streams of fear and remorse may unite in the bitter waters of repentance, bear this further in mind, that the guardian of the Roman Empire, the triumphant Henry, elect of God, thirsting not for his own but for the public good, has for our sakes undertaken his heavy task, sharing our pains of his own free will, as though to him, after Christ, the prophet Isaiah had pointed the finger of prophecy, when by the revelation of the Spirit of God he declared, 'Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows'. Wherefore you perceive, if you be not dissemblers, that the hour of bitter repentance for your mad presumption is now at hand. But a late repentance after this wise will not purchase pardon, rather is it but the prelude to seasonable chastisement. For 'the sinner is smitten so that he shall surely die'.
No matter how much I proselytize, The /pol/fags & monarchists never listen to me. So much time and effort for little pay off.
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"And this is the reason why Hellenic states were originally governed by kings; …the kingly form of government prevailed because they were of the same blood [and suckled 'with the same milk']" -Aristotle, Politics The ideal of a Hereditary Royal Monarchy is to extend a familial bond to the People and make them all stronger. In Christianity, this royal bond prevails when Christians drink the blood of Christ, exactly what Aristotle said what prevailed for the royal bond. The problem is trying to realize this as a political ideal. But unfortunately most Monarchists or people who speak about Monarchy don't see the potential or only reserve this for spiritual matters rather than as a political incentive for Monarchy. That has to change.
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This video is by a dog-hater. But accurately explains why the Political matters.
>>4111 I think we have players, but we don't have a GK outfit and the person who was designing the GK outfit still isn't back yet.
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>>4111 I might have to take matters into my own hands. But I've never designed a kit before.
>>4113 If you guys have a roster then please share it at the /icup/ thread while the other anon works on the kit.
>>4115 I'm not sure the other anon is working on the kit. Also, I would re-organize the roster, but I'm not sure what positions on it are important so I can put some names in important spots.
Is there a template I can just take into paint.net and design it?
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>>4114 Just have Grace play nude.
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So anons thoughts about Philippines voting back the son of a dictator? Sign that the world is finally sick of the ravages of democracy and willing to accept the divine right of one ruler?
>>4116 >I'm not sure what positions on it are important so I can put some names in important spots. Feel free to ask over there. I'm sure they can help you with that.
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>>4122 I really hope so. The pre-eminence of one ruler will manifest itself.
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If the site dies / another exodus, there are emergency routes planned. 1st route: v our primary bunker v https://9chan.tw/monarchia/catalog 2nd route: ---> take refuge at anon.cafe's /shelter/ 3rd route: if all else fails ---> go to endchan Royal court: >>4136
Saud poster & a few anons remain. We're a smol board. Know the emergency routes, esp. /monarchia/ bunker. If any /monarchy/ friends or anons native to /monarchy/ want to re-introduce themselves, this is a good time.
>>4137 Also, there are fallback measures on /site/
>>3857 /monarchy/ team: gk Leviathan lb Leopold II of Belgium cb Charles V cb Philip the Fair rb King James I lmf Caligula cmf Grace Chan cmf Louis XIV SILVER cmf Charles II of Spain BRONZE rmf Henry VIII BRONZE cf Tsar Nicholas II -------------------------------- gk Hoppesama gk Ramses II lb Huey Long lb Tsar Alexander I cb King Edward III cb Mansa Musa cb Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud cb Nero rb Qin Shi Huang rb Prince Charles imf Kaiser Wilhelm II cf Victoria II
>>4142 Who's the gold player?
>>4143 Are we missing a player?
>>4144 The roster has specified the silver and bronze players, but not the gold one.
>>4145 Grace Chan is gold
>>4146 Okay then. You should also update that roster post on /icup/ with this info.
>>4147 Done.
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when political parties are made illegal >strengthening the body-politic >when the people united, not divided >loyal to one person, loyal by one sovereign bond >to make them all walk as if one man >a royal bond, making all people kin as if a great family >so the State is a political household under one head and bury beneath it all the partisans and longing for multi-party democracy
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Multi-partisanships bring stagnation through their in-fighting designs and disavow critical thinking with their party platforms. Those who invest in them only invest short-term, since these parties would be swapped in and out in conjunction with other party coalitions. There is nothing their end to betterment is directed towards their party and doesn't see itself for the benefit of mankind. Whereas mankind is raised by familial bonds and kinships and without any bias seeks for the benefit and nourishment of its members without spite or envy. One person can decide without partiality and seek the general benefit by this design. Whereas the condition of multi-party is always to pulling apart and looking to foil the investments and work of the other parties.
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Dynasties also have an adequate track record imo. It promotes generational wisdom & forward-thinking.
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By generational wisdom, you have the travail and experiences of your ancestors to help guide you. By forward thinking, you have your offspring and planning ahead, combined with goodwill and a nourishing instinct.
A dynastic rule mirrors the generations of people, followed by generations of rulers who descend by lineage. Hereditary rule instills the intent of nature and constitutes the relationship of husband and wife and parent and child throughout its structure as found throughout the State and all familial ties. Dynasties preserve the persona of the State. The person who rules is succeeded by his own offspring. There is a deeper bond of trust. Who else would you trust to carry forward the State than the ruler's own? Who has more onus not to betray the lineage of his parents… whereas partisan hyenas clatter and always seek to foil their predecessors – the partisan hyena can only at best seek to become a spiritual successor. Rituals followed throughout everyday people's lives, like birth and marriage, are celebrated in the State and everyone feels proud to see the lives of their Sovereign as the bond of the State becomes the LIFE of dynasty. The hereditary rulers are attached to their State and are well ROOTED as a family tree. The partisan hyena screams in assemblies and is a charlatan to his fellow countrymen. His rituals build off the conceit of his countrymen and animosity to his peers. His party affiliation is as meaningless as the buttons they pass around. The partisan hyena is an enemy to mankind. He carries forward with slogans and slander. Embracing partiality and wielding a few percentages against the total unity of the State, the partisan attempts to divide the People. Only by following a dynastic rulership can the preservation and long-term thinking succeed without interruption by partisans. It teaches the People to embrace their familial bond, not only with their own natural parents, but with their countrymen together with their dynasty. It has the virtues of loyalty that no matter what affiliation, your care for others is blood deep and not superficial. No matter what belief, your bond is steadfast and tied. No affiliation is stronger than this. No party affiliation can compare to a royal bond. A one-party state attempts to become like a political household by being anti-partisan, that is, inhibiting other parties and outlines the descent of one party. It would be best realized to become a dynasty like North Korea's continued attachment to the Kims and I believe the success of their State is by the lineage of their Leaders in spite of partisanships. Why North Korea has preserved the character and persona is also thanks to holding onto a dynastic bond.
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Those who are opposed to what I say might say I am anti-social. But I genuinely believe partisanships are against the common good of their countrymen and are against any critical thinking for the temporal benefit of their People. I believe partisanships are shallow. They also cling to the principle of partiality. They embrace stagnation and in-fighting. What is more reviling and anti-social than squabbling and divided partisans. What is more anti-social than making vast percentages of the other deemed to be killed? The partisan embraces this outlook and paints others as his enemies. The constitutionalists believe in them based on their equilibrium and in-fighting as a virtue, but when this becomes the end of the State it is very anti-social and very disruptive to the soul of countrymen who yearn for the benefactors and true politics. The partisanships distract from the body-politic and what is truly at stake. They bastardize the People. They replace what could be a genuine royal bond. What Aristotle said what was worst about tyrannies in seeking to divide the People is not comparable to what we see today from partisanships. Banning them would liberate the People from factionalism. It would bring the People's attention closer to the the whole body-politic rather than the partiality of partisans.
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Hesiod's Praise of Kings >All the People look to him as he decides between opposing claims with straight judgments. He addresses them without erring and quickly and knowingly ends a great quarrel. For this reason, Kings are wise.
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>Monarchy tries to appeal to people with the concept of tradition and bloodline Not always, I tell you. Many people attach themselves as traditionalist with being monarchist, not out of strong political connections, but rather as a cultural identity or as an extension of x denomination. My love affair is squarely political, but for some people it's /his/ or simply fashionable. My standard for judging monarchist politics has always been the classic Herodotus Debate and framed in a way to justify why one person as opposed to democracy or oligarchy. >Monarchies are just partisans I truly believe Monarchy is anti-partisan. Now, we can debate whether dynasties can or not be. But I strongly disavow what I call monarchist playboy politics where they want to participate and endorse multi-partisan politics with a monarchist political party. To quote Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn: <Monarchy is by its nature dissociated from party rule. Only in the "constitutional" (i.e., parliamentary) monarchy are royalist parties imaginable; yet in a sound, organic monarchy all parties accept the common monarchic denominator, and the opposition is thus "His Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition." But sadly, this doesn't stop so many "monarchists" from buying into propping up dynasties as if they were political parties or as an alternative to partisanships… whereas the Monarchist assertion is that there should be one dynasty supreme and one person to lead us. A good example of those playboys are those who support a particular dynasty (like jacobites) or those wretched neofeudalists, who like to prop up various dynasties as if they were parties with platforms. I've long said that if I had to tolerate political parties, one-party sounds like a solution as if one dynasty, being like the household that is called a monarchy.
Jean Bodin on equality & a state as household? >But the error originated with Plato, who, after he had established a popular state, introduced dangerous equalization. Then the Academicians who came from his school amplified his reasons, assuming that society is maintained by harmony, harmony by equality of justice, and equality by a popular state. Then all the citizens are made one and the same in the most perfect equality and likeness, and this should be the aim of human society. Aristotle did not confute the hypothesis of Plato, but he thought that Plato had erred especially in trying to make the citizenship one and the same; in that way the state is destroyed and becomes a family. This reasoning seems to me to be ineffective; but I judge the hypothesis not only absurd, as Aristotle would have it, but also clearly false. >And the ancients (to assure Popular estates) did strive to equal all citizens in goods, honours, power, and rewards: and if any one were more virtuous, more just, or more wise, than the rest, he was banished, as I have showed before, seeking to make an equality, if it were possible: and even Plato did wish, That wives and children should be common to all, to the end that no many might say, This is mine, or, That is thine: for those words of Meum, and Tuum (said he) were the breeders of disc0rd, and the ruin of states. By the which there will grow many absurdities: for in so doing, a city shall be ruined, and become a household (as Aristotle said) although that a household or family (which is the true image of a Commonweal) has but one head. And for this cause, an ancient lawmaker, being importuned by some one, to make his country a Popular estate: Make it (says he) in thine own house. And if they say, That it is a goodly thing so to unite citizens and a city, as to make one household of it, they must then take away the plurality of heads and commanders, which are in a Popular estate, to make a Monarch, as the true fathers of a family; and to cut off this equality of goods, power, honour, and commandment, which they seek to make in a Popular estate; for that it is incompatible in a family.
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Jean Bodin on Monarchy continued >If we should inspect nature more closely, we should gaze upon monarchy everywhere. To make a beginning from small things, we see the king among the bees, the leader in the herd, the buck among the flocks or the bellwether (as among the cranes themselves the many follow one), and in the separate natures of things some one object excels: thus, adamant among the gems, gold among the metals, the Sun among the stars, and finally God alone, the prince and author of the world. Moresoever, they say that among the evil spirits one alone is supreme. But, not to continue indefinitely, what is a family other than the true image of a state? Yet this is directed by the rule of one, who presents, not a fictitious image, like the doge of Venice, but the true picture of a king. >If, then, Plato were to change the nature of things and set up several lords in the same family, several heads for the same body, several pilots on a ship, and finally several leaders among bees, flocks, herds (if only the farmers will permit); if at length he would join several gods into an association for ruling, then I would agree with him that the rule of the optimates is better than a kingdom. >But if the entire nature of things protests, reason dissents, lasting experience objects, I do not see why we ought to follow Plato or anyone else and violate nature. What Homer has said, "No good thing is a number of masters; let one man be master, one man be king," Euripides has repeated, "Power belongs to one man in the homes and in the cities." For this reason Sibylla is said to have prophesied in her poems that the safety of the Roman Republic is founded upon a kingdom, that is, the citizens cannot be protected unless they have a king. Jean Bodin on Equality continued >For if we refer all things to nature, which is chief of all things, it becomes plain that this world, which is superior to anything ever joined together by immortal God, consists of unequal parts and mutually discordant elements and contrary motions of the spheres, so that if the harmony through dissimilarity is taken away, the whole will be ruined. In the same way the best republic, if it imitates nature, which it must do, is held together stable and unshaken by those commanding and obeying, servants and lords, powerful and needy, good and wicked, strong and weak, as if by the mixed association of unlike minds. As on the lyre and in song itself the skilled ears cannot endure that sameness of harmony which is called unison; on the contrary, a pleasing harmony is produced by dissimilar notes, deep and high, combined in accordance with certain rules, so also no normal person could endure equality, or rather democratic uniformity in the state. On the other hand, a state graduated from the highest to the lowest, with the middle orders scattered between in moderate proportion, fits together in a marvelous way through complementary action. It is true this gives rise to that blight of all public affairs, the fact that people who are alike from a certain aspect think that they are altogether unlike; but, those who are in a certain degree unlike, think that they are altogether alike. If, therefore, such is the disparity of men among themselves, such the disparity of natural talent, who would divide authority, resources, honors, and offices on the basis of equality? It is as if the same food and clothing were given to boys, grown men, old men, the sick, and the strong and by this reasoning they think to preserve equality.
>>4162 Hobbes on Equality >The cause of mutual fear consists partly in the natural equality of men, partly in their mutual will of hurting: whence it comes to pass that we can neither expect from others, nor promise to ourselves the least security: For if we look on men fullgrown, and consider how brittle the frame of our human body is, (which perishing, all its strength, vigour, and wisdom itself perishes with it) and how easy a matter it is, even for the weakest man to kill the strongest, there is no reason why any man trusting to his own strength should conceive himself made by nature above others: they are equals who can do equal things one against the other; but they who can do the greatest things, (namely kill) can do equal things. All men therefore among themselves are by nature equal. >The question whether of two men be the more worthy, belongs not to the natural, but civil state; for it has been showed before, Cap. I. Art. 3. that all men by nature are equal, and therefore the inequality which now is, suppose from riches, power, nobility of kindred, is come from the civil law. I know that Aristotle in the first book of Politics affirms as a foundation of the whole political science, that some men by nature are made worthy to command, others only to serve; as if Lord and Master were distinguished not by consent of men, but by an aptness, that is, a certain kind of natural knowledge, or ignorance; which foundation is not only against reason (as but now has been showed) but also against experience: for neither almost is any man so dull of understanding as not to judge it better to be ruled by himself, than to yield himself to the government of another; neither if the wiser and stronger do contest, have these ever, or often the upper hand of those. Whether therefore men be equal by nature, the equality is to be acknowledged, or whether unequal, because they are like to contest for dominion, its necessary for the obtaining of Peace, that they be esteemed as equal; and therefore it is in the eight place of the Law of nature, That every man be accounted by nature equal to another, the contrary to which Law is PRIDE. >Some there are who are discontented with the government under one, for no other reason, but because it is under one; as if it were an unreasonable thing that one man among so many, should so far excel in power, as to be able at his own pleasure to dispose of all the rest; these men sure, if they could, would withdraw themselves from under the Dominion of one God. But this exception against one is suggested by envy, while they see one man in possession of what all desire: for the same cause they would judge it to be as unreasonable, if a few commanded, unless they themselves either were, or hoped to be of the number; for if it be an unreasonable thing that all men have not an equal Right, surely an Oligarchy must be unreasonable also. But because we have showed that the state of equality is the state of war, and that therefore inequality was introduc'd by a general consent; this inequality whereby he, whom we have voluntarily given more to, enjoys more, is no longer to be accompted an unreasonable thing. The inconveniences therefore which attend the Dominion of one man, attend his Person, not his Unity. >This great Authority being indivisible, and inseparably annexed to the Sovereignty, there is little ground for the opinion of them, that say of Sovereign Kings, though they be Singulis Majores, of greater Power than every one of their Subjects, yet they be Universis Minores, of less power than them all together. For if by All Together, they mean not the collective body as one person, then All Together, and Every One, signify the same; and the speech is absurd. But if by All Together, they understand them as one Person (which person the Sovereign appears,) then the power of all together, is the same with the Sovereign's power; and so again the speech is absurd; which absurdity they see well enough, when the Sovereignty is in an Assembly of the people; but in a Monarch they see it not; and yet the power of Sovereignty is the same in whomsoever it be placed. >And as the power, so also the honour of the sovereign, ought to be greater than that of any or all the subjects. For in the sovereignty is the fountain of honour. The dignities of lord, earl, duke, and prince as his creatures. As in the presence of the master, the servants are equal, and without any honour at all; so are the subjects, in the presence of the sovereign. And though they shine some more, some less, when they are out of his sight; yet in his presence, they shine no more than the stars in the presence of the Sun. >The inequality of subjects proceeds from the acts of sovereign power, and therefore has no more place in the presence of the sovereign; that is to say, in a court of justice, than the inequality between kings and their subjects in the presence of the King of kings. The honour of great persons is to be valued for their beneficence, and the aids they give to men of inferior rank, or not at all. And the violences, oppressions, and injuries they do are not extenuated, but aggravated, by the greatness of their persons, because they have the least need to commit them. The consequences of this partiality towards the great proceed in this manner. Impunity makes insolence; insolence, hatred; and hatred, an endeavor to pull down all oppressing and contumelious greatness, though with the ruin of the Commonwealth.
"O he links his feelings with the people with the blood relationship" -World of Humane Affection "Nobody can cut our bloodline linked with him" -To the End of the Earth "Our ties to the General is as to our own flesh and blood. Like a family to our hearts. Always with him, our whole people as one single mind" -Single-minded people "For high ideals, to become one with him… We are all under his guidance. Nothing in this world can separate us. We came from the same bloodline" -Whether 1000 ri or 10 000 ri "We all share one single heart. His affection is our flesh and blood." -Our Revolutionary Armed Forces Support Only the Marshal's Leadership "And this is the reason why Hellenic states were originally governed by kings; …the kingly form of government prevailed because they were of the same blood [and suckled 'with the same milk']" -Aristotle, Politics
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I'm too lazy to type this all down. But I found information on the indivisibility of sovereignty. On the Indivisibility of Sovereignty: https://arcade.stanford.edu/rofl/indivisibility-sovereignty So I'll post my screencaps + link
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End of screencaps The 3rd screencap here is from something else I think is somewhat related.
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Robert Filmer / Directive Power >The first Father had not only simply power, but power monarchical, as he was a Father, immediately from God. For by the appointment of God, as soon as Adam was created he was monarch of the world, though he had no subjects; for though there could not be actual government until there were subjects, yet by the right of nature it was due to Adam to be governor of his posterity: though not in act, yet at least in habit. Adam was a King from his creation: and in the state of innocency he had been governor of his children; for the integrity or excellency of the subjects doth not take away the order or eminency of the governor. >but as for directive power, the condition of human nature requires it, since civil society cannot be imagined without power of government: for although as long as men continued in the state of innocency they might not need the direction of Adam in those things which were necessarily and morally to be done; yet things indifferent, that depended merely on their free will, might be directed by the power of Adam's command. Political & Economic, No Different >Aristotle gives the lie to Plato, and those that say that political and economical societies are all one, and do not differ specie, but only multitudine et paucitate, as if there were 'no difference betwixt a great house and a little city'. All the argument I find he brings against them is this: 'The community of man and wife differs from the community of master and servant, because they have several ends. The intention of nature, by conjunction of male and female, is generation. But the scope of master and servant is only preservation, so that a wife and a servant are by nature distinguished. Because nature does not work like the cutlers at Delphos, for she makes but one thing for one use.' If we allow this argument to be sound, nothing doth follow but only this, that conjugal and despotical [lordly / master] communities do differ. But it is no consequence that therefore economical and political societies do the like. For, though it prove a family to consist of two distinct communities, yet it follows not that a family and a commonwealth are distinct, because, as well in the commonweal as in the family, both these communities are found. What I think by both communties, – means the State likewise has public servants. That an economic household, with its division of labors and servants, like a chef, tutor for the master's children, and maids, are no less modeled for the City: there's no difference between political (the city) and the household (economic). >Suarez proceeds, and tells us that 'in process of time Adam had complete economical power'. I know not what he means by this complete economical power, nor how or in what it doth really and essentially differ from political. If Adam did or might exercise in his family the same jurisdiction which a King doth now in a commonweal, then the kinds of power are not distinct. And though they may receive an accidental difference by the amplitude or extent of the bounds of the one beyond the other, yet since the like difference is also found in political estates, it follows that economical and political power differ no otherwise than a little commonweal differs from a great one. Next, saith Suarez, 'community did not begin at the creation of Adam'. It is true, because he had nobody to communicate with. Yet community did presently follow his creation, and that by his will alone, for it was in his power only, who was lord of all, to appoint what his sons have in proper and what in common. So propriety and community of goods did follow originally from him, and it is the duty of a Father to provide as well for the common good of his children as for their particular. This is why I'm not so "right libertarian" (among many other reasons) or see economics as separate from politics. So I use the term political economy. The economy itself is a kind of governance, and also the State governs through the economy and by these means. Play a city management game or tycoon and this is all apparent, I guess. Maistre on Sovereignty >If sovereignty is not anterior to the people, at least these two ideas are collateral, since a sovereign is necessary to make a people. It is as impossible to imagine a human society, a people, without a sovereign as a hive and bees without a queen: for, by virtue of the eternal laws of nature, a swarm of bees exists in this way or it does not exist at all. Society and sovereignty are thus born together; it is impossible to separate these two ideas. Imagine an isolated man: there is no question of laws or government, since he is not a whole man and society does not yet exist. Put this man in contact with his fellowmen: from this moment you suppose a sovereign. The first man was king over his children; each isolated family was governed in the same way. But once these families joined, a sovereign was needed, and this sovereign made a people of them by giving them laws, since society exists only through the sovereign. >There was a people, some sort of civilization, and a sovereign as soon as men came into contact. The word people is a relative term that has no meaning divorced from the idea of sovereignty: for the idea of a people involves that of an aggregation around a common center, and without sovereignty there can be no political unity or cohesion…
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Bodin on Wars of Religion: >"No greater proof of a stable state exists than was shown recently in the religious wars that flamed throughout all France. Although the leaders of the parties devastated everything with slaughter and fire, yet the splendor and prestige of the courts and of the greatest cities strangely enough was undiminished. Then many battles and great tumults were quieted in a short time by an edict of the best of kings, as swarms of bees may be checked by the throwing of a little dust. The prince forgot all injuries. Goodness of such a nature is innate in the race of the Valois." This reminds me of what Hesiod said about Kings >>4157 here Against Anarchy >"For under the pretext of an exemption from charges, and popular liberty, they induce the subjects to rebel against their natural princes, opening the door to a licentious anarchy, which is worse than the harshest tyranny in the world." Against Regicide >But when I perceived on every side that subjects were arming themselves against their princes; that books were being brought out openly, like firebands to set Commonweals ablaze, in which we are taught that princes sent by providence to the human race must be thrust out of their kingdoms under the pretense of tyranny, and that kings must be chosen not by their lineage, but by the will of the people; and finally that these doctrines were weakening the foundations not only of this realm only but of all states, then I denied that it was the function of a good man or of a good citizen to offer violence to his prince for any reason, however great a tyrant he might be; and contended that it was necessary to leave this punishment to God, and to other princes. And I have supported this by divine and human laws and authorities, and most of all by reason which compel assent."
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Great Caesar's reign with conquest did begin, and with triumphant SHOUTS (3x) was ushered in.
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Accurs'd rebellion rear'd his head, and his proud banners vainly spread, back'd by all the powers of HELL, Pride, Ambition, Rage and Zeal But when Caesar from on high let his avenging thunder fly, how soon the threat'ning monster fell DOWN, DOWN from whence it rose to Hell
Rivers from their channels turned Other plains and meadows bless, And those tow'rs from whence they cease Ruined lie and unadorned; 'tis the prince's presence graces And his absence that defaces, Seats of monarchs naked look By the monarch once forsook, For majesty moves like the season's bright king, Appears and withdraws, restores and gives life Both to places and men. Welcome to all those wishes fulfilled That thrones of monarchs firmly build, Welcome to all the blessings of a long reign; Thus united duty pray and never pray in vain.
any other britbongs here who would like to support charles but are utterly appalled at his cuckery? I am a monarchist by ideal but the practical reality is that charles is anti-"racism" and anti-christian (re: Defender of the Faith*(s)
>>4221 There are probably many.
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I miss the Saudi flag poster. though he was a diaperfag agent
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Greetings /monarchy/, The 7th edition of ICUP is very close to starting soon, but we could use some help. If you are capable of commentating the matches please let us know so you can able to. Can't commentate? That's fine: you should be able to help in any capacity, whether by doing 3D modelling/rigging, making OC or hype material, helping with your team, assisting with the wiki, etc. Any help is good. As for your team, we need to know which colours to use for your team. Pic related is an example of what I mean. Besides this, you can also upload images of your players to be used as icons in the Game Plan view to replace the default ones. Those will be square (transparency encouraged) and downscaled to 75x75 so please use images that will look good there. That's all for now.
>>4230 There hasn't been much going on in the e-monarchist sphere here, so to speak, + I thought this place would actually be shut down
>>4286 Why? I lurk.
>>4285 >which colours Purple, white, orange. >upload images of your players to be used as icons I'll look into this. >That's all for now. Doesn't our team need tactics? We'll need someone to help draft our tactics.
>>4289 >Purple, white, orange. Okay then, that should settle it. >Doesn't our team need tactics? We'll need someone to help draft our tactics. You have two options: you can ask rigger for some help or you can check the sample tactics on this page (Infinity Cup 5 Ruleset, chapter 8) and adapt it to your needs: https://infinitycup.miraheze.org/wiki/Rules
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>>2850 >esoteric trads and conservatives put politics secondary The problem with "politics", or at least with discussing "politics", is that it often leads nowhere. Online ideologues are far too detached from reality to bear any tangible contributions; in a way I respect the conventional political aisles (e.g. republicans & democrats) more than terminally online nobodies because at least they have a stake on their tenets and decisions, as remote as it may be. The difference between "esoteric autism" and "politics", then, is that the truth is always the truth regardless if we live in a monarchy, oligarchy, or democracy; this does not mean there's no place for politics, understood as political philosophy, for it's principles hold insofar as any relation between ruling and being ruled be conceived. My only "political ideology", if you will, is that whether clown world collapses or lingers on, I want as little to do with it as I possibly can. Those are actionable, concise premises that I can pursue; no political ideology can offer me anything of the sort.
>>4299 Looks like Grace is a bit unruly. She should probably be severely disciplined.
>>4308 >is that it often leads nowhere Watch 2nd video related. Apoliticals believe this. They should live on a remote island without any relation to anyone or anything from civilization. See how fast they'll renounce their belief they could live independently from the political world. You're begging the question how does the structure and relationships governing my peers impact me? That's what the art of politics is all about. You should rescind your barking about clown world because also brings us back to an inquiry of politics, because politics has within it all the relationships and structures that govern the masses.
>>4310 My political ideology is that I realize things are collapsing and want to be the warlord king of the wastes. What does that make me?
>>4310 >Apoliticals believe this This isn't really an apolitical statement; just an evident fact. If one has no power, no (official) political affiliation, no political platform, no connections, can one truly say that one's self-ascribed political beliefs are meaningful? Is it not inane to speak about policies without the ability to even entertain enacting them? I think it's more prudent not to subscribe to any ideology, at least not inflexibly, so as to align one's thoughts with the actual. To lodge oneself into a pristine, immaculate world of one's preferred ideology/idealised past is detrimental to the mind. In my view, terminally online political identities are yet another symptom of the bugman phenomenon; succumbing to passivity upon the realisation that one's fantasies are untenable. This often has the effect of turning bugmen into major degenerates due to the perceived futility of conforming one's situation to one's ideal & moral prescriptions, and so it's not surprising that there are so many coomers, e-girls, faggots, and trannies in fascist and rightoid circles; it stems from the discrepancy between one's representation and one's expectations. For those and other reasons I try not to stretch over my bounds and limitations, and I try not to think about the past; only corpses are there for me. >You're begging the question how does the structure and relationships governing my peers impact me? But that alone does not legitimise any particular ideology. What you say about the innateness of politics in relationships and the structures they govern is of course true, but how exactly? Where? For whom and between whom? Asking those questions, insofar as they concern you and everything else immediately after, will guide your decisions and political stances. Why? For each one of us is a body politic unto ourselves, and all being in all, understanding our lot brings us nearer to the whole. 'tis why the first of Delphic maxims is to know oneself, and furthermore why Plato likens us to a chariot, with our passions and appetites curbed by the rein. So I already know why clown world is bad; instead of burdening myself with changing it, I'll first loosen the ties that fetter myself to it, so that I may stand on firmer grounds. I'll not grumble and wonder what might have been, nor unsettle my mind with things outside of my control; I'll decide upon what's more expedient, and build myself up from there.
>>4312 You probably know this already, but the avatarfag above isn't me.
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>>4312 >If one has no power, no (official) political affiliation, no political platform, no connections, can one truly say that one's self-ascribed political beliefs are meaningful? I never had any pretenses like these to begin with. Neither do I talk about Monarchy because I expect to wield influence over it. As someone who advocates a hereditary royal monarchy, I have no expectations whatsoever to elect this person, neither do I expect it to be upheld by party coalitions and popular support. I don't care to lift a finger. >But that alone does not legitimise any particular ideology A hereditary monarchy cannot function on homosexuality. The structure itself demands an heir and reproduction. Which can only happen with a man and a woman. Even if the king was gay, he'd have every incentive to pretty much to have a wife and children of his own for the sake of the State. >and so it's not surprising that there are so many coomers, e-girls, faggots, and trannies Just because there are coomers, e-girls, faggots, and even trannies, doesn't mean politics doesn't bring us closer to understanding ourselves and the State. >but how exactly? You might as well ask why children should have parents. How exactly does it matter that there is the structural integrity of the family? How do you expect to teach children any morality without any structural integrity that politics brings. The nature of the State is the City, that is, the polis -- that is where the term "political" originates from, like metropolis. Where could we begin to appreciate morality and how people should interact in these respective relationships, if we thrash away any notion of these structures to begin with? Like how children should respect their parents? What morality would there be without this in question to begin with? There would be no morality concerning these if they weren't manifest, if the parents couldn't provide for their children and make their relationship meaningful. A city roughly being made up of households, that is, the bricks of the political economy. The household relationship has the familial relationship and master and servants. This is the economical relationship. It is in the interest of the State to care for its parts, by design to teach the members of its community how to act and how to behave, like how peer pressure is, since we look at a body-politic and see it is made up of people. That is what governance is, that a State governs through the political economy, perhaps through the structural design of the family to begin with, since it is said that the State is made up of households, then the industrial political economy, to govern by their work and servitude for the general benefit or commonweal, another instance of governing, or the design of the city / political landscape itself, all the buildings that make up, like various departments of a household has a quarters for servants to cook, another room for the maintenance and sanitation of the household, another for laborers and another to teach the master's children. It requires the education of them to perform, that is another instance to govern them. It is another end of the State to use propaganda to educate them, so they'll know how to behave for these respective ends and for the interest of peer pressure. >Where? We start with the household. Not independent from the political design, but since these are made up of households and it has been said before that the family is a little city and that the city itself were as if not so different from a great household. Like I said before, that's why they use the term "public servants". The whole social framework functions politically.
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Great Founder Myth in Popular Culture /V/ EDITION Depictions of utopia or dystopia prompt the portrayal of a great founder who first established the city, like Aristotle >>2618 mentions. Andrew Ryan, as the founder of the City of Rapture Mr. House has a computer persona like an artificial persona, kind of a reference to Hobbes' Leviathan as the artificial person of the State. It should also be remembered, a household is a monarchy and that is a household rule like >>3204 these quotes say. I also made that comparison with >>3421 the Wizard of Oz.
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>>4315 This YT comment basically sort of makes the case for the pre-eminence of Mr. House
>>4314 >I don't care to lift a finger That makes it all the more intriguing. Why even entertain the thought when you have no intention to act on it? What end does it serve? Would you rather consign yourself to apathy in the absence of a monarch, assuming (that is, as you claim) your contribution is not crucial to the emergence of one? >Just because there are coomers, e-girls, faggots, and even trannies, doesn't mean politics doesn't bring us closer to understanding ourselves and the State Perhaps, but the problem itself stems from "fetishisation" (commodity, pseudo-identity, and general bugmanism) of politics, as it were, as opposed to real inquiry; it creates a chasm between thought and action that invariably cascades into absolution from responsibility and indifference, leading to degeneracy. I make my politics relational and contextually relevant; I don't commit to specific ideologies as there's nothing expedient in it for me. That of course does not mean I have no scruples; to me at least some principles are axiomatic, and everything else deduced from them as needed. >How do you expect to teach children any morality without any structural integrity that politics brings. The nature of the State is the City, that is, the polis. Where could we begin to appreciate morality and how people should interact in these respective relationships, if we thrash away any notion of these structures to begin with? Like how children should respect their parents? But what could occasion the polis prior to such relationships, let alone a family? For we already find abundantly in nature beasts who abandon their children and widowed mothers, and it's not unlikely that primitive man exhibited similar behaviour. What then could give rise to political structures, if not the individual man himself? Are we not already endowed with our own parts, subjects if you will, to govern? Won't we falter and sink if not fed? Could we avert danger and strife without courage? Won't the caprice of the belly afflict us with ruin and dissipation if not censored by shame? Won't a prideful heart imperil and delude us if not tempered by reason? It's only plausible then to conclude that it's from the self-actualisation of one's own lot that the family, then the tribe, then the community, then finally the city springs forth; for all things are in all things, and it's only to the extent that one is within the other that rulers and subjects are conceived of, just as there are many gods who nevertheless eat the same ambrosia. I would say you are presupposing that such moral and political notions are extrinsic to us, and that they have to be imparted by an already established authority or norm; I however assert that they are as innate to us as learning how to walk or talk, and experiences are only conducive to retrieving them. In that sense, all forms of government are, in varying degree, legitimate expressions of our political condition, though none of them perfect.
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>>4317 >That makes it all the more intriguing I am that confident, that if a Monarchy were to be established, it wouldn't necessarily require starting a political party, like I say for "playboy monarchists" or require so much of my support. I fully expect it to establish itself when the time comes. >Why even entertain the thought when you have no intention to act on it? Because I still believe a royal monarchy, fundamentally understood, would overall lead to a better commonweal. Plus it's more of an obsession of mine. >Would you rather consign yourself to apathy in the absence of a monarch No, I nevertheless still advocate, but don't seek to undermine any regimes. >but the problem itself stems from "fetishisation" (commodity, pseudo-identity, and general bugmanism) of politics This is a board where, jokingly, we make no fuss about being "LARPers". I know what you mean with -ism, but people long for an identity regardless, and politics is the place... since people strive for their calling in whatever way to serve the political. We talk about the "shopping market of political ideologies", but it's in people's nature, as you say, to identify this way... politics, to merge with the common weal and be part of a greater cause, delights the soul and gives them hope. >it creates a chasm between thought and action that invariably cascades into absolution from responsibility and indifference, leading to degeneracy That's what progressives are always telling moralists. Always stating that they themselves could never meet their standards. Calling them hypocrites. And making jokes like how those who oppose homosexuality must be secretly gay themselves. Monarchy (at least, how I see it) doesn't require the kind of action that partisans expect, always scrambling to get seats in parliaments, and competing for popular attention. Being wannabe anarchists. That is contrary to a monarchy. >I make my politics relational and contextually relevant; I don't commit to specific ideologies as there's nothing expedient in it for me Monarchy reveals to us the whole body-politic in the same sense that a classroom is best with One Teacher. Since many teachers would lead to confusion in the classroom, not knowing which teacher to listen to... they lose their focus and like you say find all sorts of trivialities thrown at them. Whereas Monarchy brings us structurally One Teacher allows us to pay heed to the entire State at hand more closely, without any of the food scraps you see today in multi-partisanship democracies, tossing food scraps to the people in terms of political issues... A monarchy adds to the sensation of serving a greater cause, since the action and thought are most united in monarchy. A monarch cannot very much disagree with himself like an assembly and is a personal ruler as a shepherd is, a mirror and persona. >leading to degeneracy Nobody takes Internet activism very seriously, truthfully said. I blame the medium. You're alluding to homo-fascist strasserists and "meme ideologies". I also feel disgusted with "anarcho-monarchists" for similar reasons. Most people are simply chasing their happiness and fixations. At the same time, I appreciate how it allows us to stretch out the fabric and study these at length. >But what could occasion the polis prior to such relationships, let alone a family? In the sense, that the chicken comes before the egg. The end is its aspiration and its hope its capacity for it. >let alone a family? A family requires a good pot of soil to flourish. The greater community ultimately influences members of the family whether we like it or not, seeing as how children will ultimately look to their peers--and that's a good thing--because they should interact and learn from others to better cooperate and function. There is the distinction for what we have in particular and what we have in general. The State does use particular means to benefit the general end, such as the political economy as mentioned before and pooling the various ends of different labors to benefit them in common. While itself being a great household itself. A family isolated doesn't flourish well and that's evident with inbreeding, that prompts more interaction with others. Traditionalists romanticize a pastorialism and being independent from civilization... to their own folly, like >>4310 this video mentions. They think they'll go innawoods, have a farmville, and be swell when SHTF and there's a collapse. Little do they consider how interdependent they are on the political well being in order for themselves to flourish. Like the tools, the seeds, the cattle, the machines, vehicles, and the maintenance of it all -- to live comfortably -- depend by extension their relationship with other humans... The same crap traditionalists abuse the word "secularist" as if our contemporary well being and contemporary matters are of no salience. I'd tell those hippies to live in a monastery, but even those benefit and aren't remote islands like the dog video says. >It's only plausible then to conclude that it's from the self-actualisation of one's own lot that the family, then the tribe, then the community, then finally the city springs forth; for all things are in all things
[Expand Post]There is, again, what we have in particular and in general. Jean Bodin says that if we had nothing in particular, there would be nothing in general and vice versa. There can be no kings, if every man was a king, in a sense. >In that sense, all forms of government are, in varying degree, legitimate expressions of our political condition, though none of them perfect We have talked about the state in a universal fashion and acknowledged there are other forms of state. Nevertheless, a monarchical state is fundamental for what I have in mind.
>>4318 >Because I still believe a royal monarchy Out of curiosity; do you have any ties to nobility, remote or otherwise? >Plus it's more of an obsession of mine Fair I guess. I can't I don't have aimless hobbies either. >This is a board where, jokingly, we make no fuss about being "LARPers It's one of the better political boards thus far; at least more philosophically inclined than just the typical activism and crude pontification. >to merge with the common weal and be part of a greater cause While I can see the appeal, niche ideologies are nevertheless plastic given that they are projected unto reality rather conducive to it. Yet another patch to the bugman's chimeric identity, another avenue for the bugman's nihilistic stupor. Such is the condition of modern man. I (and likely you as well) of course am no exception since I'm an urbanite, but I make an effort not to fall prey to it. >That's what progressives are always telling moralists Well, I did not intend that as charge of hypocrisy. The problem isn't being a moralist, but upholding a moral imperative as untenable, as only a part of some intricate ideal. "Oh well if only the government were BASED I would do those things I say should be done". Extremists, and I don't mean to say that having unconventional takes makes one an extremist, are especially susceptible to this as they are detached from reality and therefore led astray from nature, and tempted by unnatural vices. >Monarchy reveals to us the whole body-politic in the same sense that a classroom is best with One Teacher I rather see the king as preeminent not ontologically, but in rank and degree. As Plato narrates, each soul has a distinct metallic composition that determines her rank. So those with more bronze don't dispose of the soldier's diligence to ward themselves, nor the wisdom of the ruler to be regents of a estate, ergo they yield to the authority of the guardians; those with more silver have the decor to revere and exert the law as sacred, but not the acumen to understand and ratify policies, ergo they yield to the authority of the philosophers; those with more gold are such that their chief source of nourishment is knowledge, and it's thus in their best interest to preserve their subjects rather than self-advantage, ergo they yield to none but the gods. We all partake of the three faculties, and all is in all, but each in it's proper place; so the students are not just particular manifestations of the teacher or contingent on the teacher, as that would imply that the teacher rules himself qua teacher, which is demonstrably absurd, but simply lack, or are not wont to the excellence of the teacher. The student is self-actualised when he acknowledges his ignorance and is tempered by humility, and the teacher likewise when he incites the willing student's curiosity. >The greater community ultimately influences members of the family whether we like it or not Certainly, but what could have initiated such reciprocity were the individual man not spontaneously inclined to it? It is in this sense that, while of course preferable that there be established laws and customs, it's not necessary for political life; it's as inevitable as the sunset. >Traditionalists romanticize a pastorialism and being independent from civilization... to their own folly, like >>4310 this video mentions. They think they'll go innawoods, have a farmville, and be swell when SHTF and there's a collapse. The point of moving into the countryside isn't so much isolation as much as it is standing on one's own term, having something to bargain. In the city you don't have much recourse to resist, let alone protest the WEF and it's sycophants if you are completely reliant on them for subsistence. Also, arguing that isolated families don't flourish well is completely moot when the cities are barely capable of forming one in the first place; you need only look at our abysmal fertility rates to confirm this. When Western Rome fell there were no kingdoms; they had to be consolidated, gradually. Even you have to admit this. That's what I envision for the impending collapse of clown world at least. >Nevertheless, a monarchical state is fundamental for what I have in mind I at least am not convinced that any particular form of government is more fundamental than the other, as all are fashioned after the noble lie; though I recognise that a monarchy is less degenerate than a democracy, in the sense that it adheres more closely to the hierarchy of the Soul.
>>4319 >Also, arguing that isolated families don't flourish well is completely moot If you are a family man, you are a statist. The structure of the family is the governance of the State, it is integral of the State structure, it is another means to educate and prepare you for the common benefit of the City. >When Western Rome fell there were no kingdoms; they had to be consolidated, gradually. Even you have to admit this. It depends again, whether you consider the State to be natural or artificial. They use the term "State apparatus" and "machine government", but those reactionaries put their cookies into Hobbes' cookie jar when they concede to an artificial state rather than against it. When the State is natural, you acknowledge these institutions as part of the greater structure; as Aristotle says, man is a political animal and the whole is prior to the part since we cannot envision a hand or begin to understand a hand without reference to the entire body itself. There's nothing more I hate than when anarcho-feudalists use the term "organic" though to describe their envisioned State... because they toss the word "organic" around to sound better like a product at a grocery store. >as much as it is standing on one's own term, having something to bargain That doesn't remedy that fact in post-apoc scenario they should realize their tools and everything they have to secure their bargain came from the greater commonality of their peers in co-ordination to lay out the structure. It is another anarchistic delusion to believe it is natural to be independent from human authority, as if nature doesn't intend for mankind to structure and arrange the political economy. It's what I warned about with the anarchistic worldview in my 2nd pic related. Or like I mention >>4168 here. >but as for directive power, the condition of human nature requires it, since civil society cannot be imagined without power of government: for although as long as men continued in the state of innocency they might not need the direction of Adam in those things which were necessarily and morally to be done; yet things indifferent, that depended merely on their free will, might be directed by the power of Adam's command. I honestly don't dawdle too much on whether the State be artificial or natural. My determination is the same regardless. >I rather see the king as preeminent not ontologically, but in rank and degree. You must understand, that it isn't only in part of the general, but as the general itself is pre-eminence understood. As Aristotle mentions, >The proof that the state is a creation of nature and prior to the individual is that the individual, when isolated, is not self-sufficing; and therefore he is like a part in relation to the Whole. And yet says for the prince of pre-eminence: >and he who has this pre-eminence is in the relation of the Whole to a part It isn't like what King James I says, that the King is the head of the body-politic... but like Hobbes says, the Monarch is the soul of the commonwealth, having the superior relationship like the soul to the body, being the sovereign unity, the unity the defines the ship as a whole, and gives it a persona and form. The Sovereign Monarch is considered a kind of superior to everyone. A superior to myriads of people, to great notables, to great numbers of people, rich and poor, to vast percentages. The Sovereign Monarch is the State.
If I had to summarize what I disdain the most... with trads and ancaps and hoppeans and others in this community, it is their incessant pretensions against the pre-eminence of one. And yet they call themselves "monarchists" when they hate the pre-eminence of one man. Jouvenel's tantrum against absolutism (who I hate, btw) here sums up everything I dislike about their anarchistic views. Putting "family" and "social authority" as if these weren't of the State itself. Talking about many pre-eminences rather than one pre-eminence. Talking in terms of "private tie linking man to man" contradiction itself as if what doesn't link them together is what they have in common. Calling it "atomization" when like 3rd pic related it looks atomized and broken up into many little parts. And lastly, "where the extremes of individualism and socialism meet". What Jouvenel does is look beyond the whole beauty of monarchical pre-eminence, in my mind, with this tantrum, when ignoring how the individual pre-eminence of the sovereign monarch meets with the unity of the whole State. Like the individual thumb meets with the collective fingers to have a whole hand. These slants against monarchical pre-eminence are commonplace unfortunately because everyone is infatuated with ANARCHISM.
>>4320 >If you are a family man, you are a statist I'd go further than this; if one is alive at all, one is a statist. To live is to have the Soul governing the body. When we come into contact with others, our abilities, that is our proficiency to rule the body, are commensurated and our roles determined thereby, in rank (e.g. king & subject) and in degree (e.g. parent & child). >When the State is natural, you acknowledge these institutions as part of the greater structure; as Aristotle says, man is a political animal and the whole is prior to the part since we cannot envision a hand or begin to understand a hand without reference to the entire body itself Certainly, but the whole exemplified by philosopher kings rather than one man; for they make manifest the most optimal state of the multitude of the city, like a macrocosm to it's lower substrates. It's a noocracy for therein each entity holds primacy, just like the gods are imbued by the same nectar; and they are not dependent on one another like a stonemason is reliant on a craftsman for his tools and a craftsman on a mason to have his store built, but complementary like Hades sending the penitent souls to Elysium and Zeus banishing the wicked to Tartarus, in spite of their distinct dominions (i.e. ruler of heaven & ruler of hell). >It is another anarchistic delusion to believe it is natural to be independent from human authority By the same token, it's unnatural that a ruler should debase his subjects rather than provide for them, like a father without a son. Here I don't speak of a "bad king scenario"; I refer to the much worse, and curious case of liberal magnates who could care less if children are being groomed into becoming trannies or if people are being evicted from their homes due to unsavory monetary policies, but make it harder for them crawl out of such predicaments. Neither do sheep flock to impotent shepherd, nor do the sane follow liberal cynics. It goes both ways really; a rebellious son (i.e. anarchist) is unnatural, and a father who does not discipline his son (i.e. liberal) is unnatural.
>>4321 It's thanks to the cancer I call "Tocquevillism". >Certainly, but the whole exemplified by philosopher kings rather than one man Then I'm afraid we don't see eye-to-eye here. I am very particular about there being a pre-eminence of one person. If you refuse to think monarchically, that is. >if children are being groomed into becoming trannies or if people are being evicted from their homes due to unsavory monetary policies, but make it harder for them crawl out of such predicaments That is the disorder of the State itself and to its own detriment.
This >>4323 meant for >>4322
>>4323 See the problem with your reasoning, Graceposter, is that we are currently undergoing a massive reduction of societal complexity. As such, society is going to become more disordered, decentralized, and ad hoc for the forseable future, not more ordered, centralized, and established. We aren't due for the first monarchies to appear for a few generations or so.
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>>4325 "Whenever Sovereignty seems to be divided, there is an illusion: the rights of which are taken as being part of Sovereignty are really all subordinate, and always imply supreme wills of which they only sanction the execution." -Rousseau If Rousseau can say that the division of Sovereignty is an illusion, & >>4321 3rd pic related Jean Bodin call the HRE (which many people here appraise to be the most "decentralized" thing in existence) a unified State oligarchy, then notions of "centralization" & "decentralization" are an illusion to me. Each state has a unified social power, individual and indivisible, no matter how much "decentralized" since this is applied universally to all states. They imagine for themselves a stateless society because it is "decentralized", as if because you have men assembled in one room, like a senate that they call "centralized" it's a whole other thing when you take those same men assembled and put them in various parts "decentralized" -- it's not so. A body-politic has its center and its parts, there is no body decentralized without a center or center without its respective parts. The whole body itself has a superior relationship. >We aren't due for the first monarchies to appear for a few generations or so I never thought monarchies would hit the dust-bin of history like other people think. Monarchy is an attractive idea
>>4326 The states of the near future will be decentralized because without a large degree of societal complexity and the infrastructure associated with said complexity, the amount of land one person can manage (and therefore the amount of power one person can wield, because in the end all power that remains meaningful across crisis periods is derived entirely from the land) is substantially diminished. Rome didn't collapse into a thousand Germanic fiefdoms because that was what the Germans thought was nice. Rome collapsed into a thousand Germanic fiefdoms because in the chaos left by an empire that couldn't maintain its infrastructure of bureaucracy, one one-thousandth of the empire was about as much as one state could manage. As such, whatever social power the states of the near future possess, they will have to split the power among many people as the amount of land one person can manage will be far, far lower than it is today.
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>>4327 because without a large degree of societal complexity and the infrastructure associated with said complexity, the amount of land one person can manage (and therefore the amount of power one person can wield, because in the end all power that remains meaningful across crisis periods is derived entirely from the land) is substantially diminished. That's what Aristotle thought, but nevertheless monarchies had developed centuries after Aristotle deemed Monarchy would become obsolete. Look >>3676 here, for example. >The first governments were kingships, probably for this reason, because of old, when cities were small, men of eminent virtue were few. Further, they were made kings because they were benefactors, and benefits can only be bestowed by good men. But when many persons equal in merit arose, no longer enduring the pre-eminence of one, they desired to have a commonwealth, and set up a constitution. The ruling class soon deteriorated and enriched themselves out of the public treasury; riches became the path to honor, and so oligarchies naturally grew up "And though in the charters of subordinate corporations, a corporation be declared to be one person in law, yet the same has not been taken notice of in the body of a commonwealth or city, nor have any of those innumerable writers of politics observed any such union." -Hobbes So like Hobbes says, the Artificial Person of the State is a kind of Monarch itself, being One Personification. And despite how complex societies evolve to be, they converge back to a common power that paradoxically is one. >whatever social power the states of the near future possess, they will have to split the power among many people as the amount of land one person can manage will be far, far lower than it is today. It isn't land, but people that we manage. Like Bossuet says, men are the true riches of a king. Off topic: And that line about the pre-eminent person being a kind of god or beast, the Romans had thought the latter with Romulus being raised by a she-wolf.
>>4328 >it isn't land but people that we manage And how do you support those people? With the fruits of the land. A society that is nearing the end of its overcomplexity stage of development can deceive you into thinking that people can be disconnected from the land -- that you can have an "information economy" that is separate from and does not depend on the physical economy, but in the end that all falls away when the society enters the phase of collapsing complexity and what remains is a world where the determining factor in how much power you can wield is how much land you control, how many and what kind of resources that land produces, and how good you are at extracting said resources. As such, the societies of the near future will be feudal in nature. The leader will not be able to manage the land himself nor will he be able to sustain the kind of complexity required to have a dedicated salaried bureaucracy. Rather, he will have to designate people as the controllers of specific regions, with near total autonomy in running said regions in exchange for passing along some small portion of the income the land produces to his overlord. This will make these societies decentralized by default, as the ability of the central leader to command his underlings to do as he says in land they have day-to-day control over will be substantially diminished compared to a society where one man owns everything.
>>4323 >>4328 >So like Hobbes says, the Artificial Person of the State is a kind of Monarch itself, being One Personification Then perhaps we do see eye to eye after all. Though not headed by one man, the oneness of the philosophers kings ought to be recognised; hence the abolition of family and property among the guardians in Plato's Republic. At any rate, a noocracy to me is not something that I expect in this lifetime or the next; I rather see it as the paradigm of all States, and I fancy myself more a political anatomist than an ideologue.
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>>4329 >And how do you support those people? With the fruits of the land. They always make the case that currency made the land-based feudal relationship fade away. The economy in origin has its etymology in the "household management". That is said to be a monarchy. This is why the faces of rulers is printed onto coins, to signify themselves and their State as a provider.
>>4331 Currency in the near future will be largely worthless because the old institutions that gave currency value will be dead/dying and new institutions will not yet have been created. As such transactions in the near future will mostly be in the form of barter of useful goods and services, because without some standard by which the reputation of more fungible representations of such goods and services (i.e. money) can be trusted, the goods and services themselves become the only unit of value both you and the person you are trading with can trust.
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>>4332 Even with the fruits of the land, they can still ration it to serve the same purpose, as a means to provide and for the Monarch. As the Chinese emperors had portions of land and the yield devised for a stockpile, and other cases for a famine. A monarchy can be devised in any time period and whatever economic conditions could possibly be turned favorable to it. In politics, there are many causes that lead to a monarchical state. That's where I will lazily end my conversation.
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>>4333 My point is that as the margins upon which society operates become thinner, the bureaucracies and institutions required for one man to control the whole state will become unsustainable. Without these institutions, the leader of the state becomes unable to simply pay underlings to manage his lands but must instead allow them direct control over those lands to maintain their loyalty. Because they have direct control over most of these lands the leader cannot simply order them to alter their activities on a whim, because if they decide they don't want to play along the leader has no recourse against them. They possess the land directly and possession is nine tenths of the law. Sure, the leader could round up his men and march on his underling's fiefdom, but then all his underlings will realize that what can be done to that noncompliant underling can be done to all of them, and they will withhold their support of the leader. The leader controls far less land than his underlings combined, so this leaves him unable to just tell all of them to do as he says or else. As such, the leader does not possess the sole authority to do whatever he likes, but rather must contend with the opinions of his underlings, who are the ones that actually manage 90% of the land. The only way around this is to not grant your underlings direct control over the lands, but instead to create institutions run by staffers and bureaucrats who draw their compensation from resource handling apparati funded via tax money collected by yet another series of bureaucratic institutions. This is possible only when the margins society runs on are thick enough to support an entire class of people who do no useful labor themselves but rather manage resources controlled by someone higher than them on the food chain. If the margins thin, this class becomes unsustainable and so the leader must cut out the middleman and compensate his underlings by giving them direct control of the land, which introduces the awful little snag that he has effectively given them veto power over his actions because they can always just withhold the products of the land from the state, and any potential action the leader could take against the underling both requires these withheld resources to be undertaken and will inevitably push his other underlings further into noncompliance, worsening the problem. In short, absolutism becomes more commonplace when societal margins are thick, and federalism becomes more commonplace when they are thin. We are entering a period where societal margins will be incredibly thin, and so society will trend towards decentralization. This period will end and society will begin to trend towards absolutism once a sustainable floor of complexity is reached and society begins to develop into more complex forms again.
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>>4335 This period will likely begin some time early next century, when society has shed its unsustainable complexity and settled into a new dark age. From there, feudal forms of government will develop as they did after Rome collapsed. Over time, leaders will develop their lands to produce thicker margins, which will allow said leaders to develop society into more complex forms that can sustain the kind of bureaucracies required to make absolutist government work. This will however have to occur after a period of federalism, much as the age of absolutism only began after the age of feudalism.
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>>4336 When you talk about the "Age of Absolutism" and historiography as historians laid out, and I talk about the politics of absolute monarchy as Bodin expressed, we talk about two different things. Because I deem every age to be an age of absolutism. It was a universal political outlook. It discerns all states in general and for all ages. I get hammered over and over with the term "bureaucracy", but pretty much every state has its officials and public servants to accompany them. If you think because it is complex for one man to govern, that these lands divided among peers wouldn't also entail management of their territories, with the cities and their councils? >As such, the leader does not possess the sole authority The fundamental law of monarchy is that one person is the sovereign authority. Like I said elsewhere, you ponder that because there is one master, he wouldn't be able to have so many servants and manage them. Yet so a master can. The same question can be at your form of state, how do you expect these philosopher kings to manage all the myriads of people? The population is so vast you could make the case. >In short, absolutism becomes more commonplace when societal margins are thick, and federalism becomes more commonplace when they are thin. We are entering a period where societal margins will be incredibly thin, and so society will trend towards decentralization My answer >>4326 Like I also said before, paradoxically, the more "decentralized" they become, the more "centralized" it seems to be. Yet even Jean Bodin looked at the HRE, what many anons call the holy mother of "decentralized" and considered it a state oligarchical, that assembled then and again. To talk about all the people and land in general, there is a reference to a common bond they share together, and those who have a share in that want some unity with the others to maintain their harmony. This prompts those with control of the lands to concede to each with each other in a unison for it all to function. I'm sick of the narrative neofeuds have. Why I avoid neofeuds like the plague.
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>>4337 The man in the first pic and the man in the second pic were both kings. But the man in the first pic had far, far less power than the man in the second. The King Louis in the second pic could make sweeping changes to the State on a whim. The King Louis in the first pic could not. This is because the King Louis in the second pic governed through underlings who did not have direct ownership of the land they governed, and so had little recourse to defy the king's will. The King Louis in the first pic was forced to come to a compromise with the nobility on every single thing he wanted to do, because he governed via underlings who had direct ownership of the land they governed, and so who could and did flagrantly violate the king's will if they weren't given something they wanted. The King Louis in the first pic didn't govern this way because he wanted to. He governed that way because the resources produced by a society at the level of complexity of 13th century France couldn't support the kind of bureaucratic overhead required to govern Nice directly from Paris. So the King Louis in the first pic had to delegate some underling to control all the day to day facets of life directly, and nobody is going to do take on that level of responsibility if they aren't given the autonomy to govern their lands according to their own prerogatives. In 17th century France however, society had developed enough that the surplus value produced by the peasants could support a level of infrastructure and cadre of bureaucrats big enough for the second Louis to handle the matters of Nice directly from Versailles. And so he did not need intermediaries to handle day to day operations independently, and so his underlings could not demand the level of autonomy those of the King Louis in the first pic could. Societal complexity made l'etat c'est moi possible, and that societal complexity can't happen unless the peasants produce enough food for the king and his entourage of thousands of bureaucrats instead of just the king and a dozen retainers. The level of autonomy in a society is inversely proportional to the number of people one farmer can feed.
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My point in all this is that the degree of surplus value in society is about to fall through the floor and so the ability of the state to maintain direct control over the provinces will evaporate. Whoever is the man on top of the pyramid will have to govern with very few middle men which means they'll have to give their underlings considerable autonomy. So if said underlings decide they don't like their leader's policies, he won't be able to enforce them.
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>>4338 >But the man in the first pic had far, far less power than the man in the second. The King Louis in the second pic could make sweeping changes to the State on a whim It's not about the power and even absolute whim, but sovereign authority, by the law of the land, a monarchy. A sovereign authority could grant a dictator absolute power for a time, but nevertheless despite all the absolute power -- the sovereignty belongs to the sovereign since it is a perpetual power belonging to them. 2ndly, Jean Bodin's testimony is that even the nobles in great power recognized the pre-eminence of the King of France. Jean Bodin on the humility of parliament and great nobles before a Sovereign Monarch: >For otherwise if the King should be subject unto the assemblies and decrees of the People, he should neither be King nor Sovereign; and the Commonwealth not a Monarchical State, but a mere Oligarchy of many Lords in power EQUAL, where the greater part commands the less in general, and every one in particular: and wherein the edicts and laws are not to be published in the name of him that rules, but in the name and authority of the states, as in an Aristocratical Seignorie, where he that is chief has no power, but owes obedience unto the commandments of the seignorie: unto whom they all and every one of them feign themselves to owe their faith and obedience: which are all things so absurd, as hard it is to say which is furthest from reason. SO when Charles the Eight, the French king, [being but so young], held a parliament at Tours, although the power of the parliament was never before so great as in those times, yet Relli, then speaker for the people, turning himself unto the King, thus begins his oration, which is yet in print. Most high, most mighty, and most Christian King, our natural and onely Lord, we your humble and obedient subjects, &c. Which are come hither by your command, in all HUMILITY, REVERENCE, and SUBJECTION present ourselves before you, &c. And have given me in charge from all this noble assembly, to declare unto you the good will and hartie desire they have with a most firm resolution and purpose to SERVE, OBEY, and AID you in all your affairs, commandments, and pleasures. In brief, all that his oration and speech is nothing else but a declaration of all their good wills towards the King, and of their humble obedience and loyalty. Even John Fortescue gives testimony that the Kingdom of France was purely regal, even called it somewhat despotical, I think. Consider the antics of Philip the Fair, not long after Saint Louis, and you'll have a testimony. Kings in the Middle Ages had civil servants too and those invested in the affairs of their states. I wouldn't even go as far as to call the ancien regime of Louis XIV that much of a bureaucracy, but regardless I think the term "bureaucracy" is abused to death. It isn't the number of bureaucrats or civil servants that defines absolutism, grumble, but an indivisible and sovereign power, perpetual and pre-eminent, absolute in the respect it is not divided against itself, likewise the infinite, for what majesty alludes to, and since sovereignty is a word synonymous with majesty. The whole kingdom has its unity directly from the King. >"So also might we say of the state of Lacedemonians, which was a pure Oligarchy, wherein were two kings, without any sovereignty at all, being indeed nothing but Captains and Generals for the managing of their wars: and for that cause were by the other magistrates of the state, sometimes for their faults condemned to fines... And such were in ancient times the kings of the cities of the Gauls, whom Caesar for this cause oftentimes called Regulos, that is to say little kings: being themselves subjects, and justiciable unto the Nobility, who had all the sovereignty." -Jean Bodin So there you have a testimony of an oligarchical state, but even in the Middle Ages it was considered a state Monarchical even with all your pretenses of the nobility. But like always neofeuds peddling a crypto-oligarchist buffoonery and being snakes. Jean Bodin recommends perpetual offices for Monarchy, so it's not even that hostile towards the idea of nobility. There is also a harmony of the state with nobles and the popular estate, between rich and poor. >And so he did not need intermediaries to handle day to day operations independently In a state oligarchical, although the land could seem so much divided, these great notables who have land don't see themselves too independently from each other: for absolutist view is that powers divided destroy one another, and so these notables have some kind of concord, that being a unity, and have need to assemble and guide the state respective to each other, like I say, although you would make all kinds of pretensions of them being entirely independent because they are "decentralized"--civil servants are no different assembled than as notables with great estates, who will still take a seat at the table to correspond with one another in relation to their state. >and that societal complexity can't happen unless the peasants produce enough food for the king and his entourage of thousands of bureaucrats You've changed it from land to food. That suddenly it depends if the King can amass enough to provide for civil servants is kinda bunk since kings most certainly have wealth to feed a couple civil servants. I'm not convinced there will be a "dark ages" next century. It looks like the opposite is happening more and more anyways.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 08/02/2022 (Tue) 07:31:26.
>"Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened." George Washington, Farewell Address >"Instruction of the people in the essential rights which are the natural and fundamental laws of sovereignty... it is his duty to cause them [his subjects] to be instructed; and not only his duty, but his benefit also." >"But Kings are the Fathers of Families... [the Public Good / education of subjects], the care of which they stand so long charged withal, as they retain any other essential Right of the Sovereignty." >For he that deserteth the Means, deserteth the Ends... [Such as] of appointing Teachers, and examining what Doctrines are conformable, or contrary to the Defense, Peace, and Good of the people. Secondly, it is against his duty, to let the people be ignorant, or misinformed of the grounds, and reasons of those his essential Rights >"It is his Duty, to cause them to be so instructed; and not only his Duty, but his Benefit also, and Security..." Hobbes on Instruction
"Republicanism vs Monarchism" distinction wasn't always a thing. Jean Bodin's "Six Books of a Commonwealth" was originally called "Les Six livres de la République", but later as that tension grew on and that distinction developed the English translation changed the word "Republic" to "Commonwealth" in Richard Knolles' translation since by then the "monarchist vs republican" dichotomy had since then developed. "Commonwealth" basically means the "public good" and I have read bloggers who disagree with Bodin strictly because they thought he was "too republican" for his study of the Roman state and the word "Republic" <How is the term "Republic" like "Commonwealth" used in this sense, and why does Bodin use the term "Republic" and "Commonwealth" for Hobbes' Leviathan? Here's an important distinction The term "Republic" is a word for the State itself rather than the "form of state". In my terms, there are 3 forms of state and no such thing as a 4th mixed state, but only 3: monarchy, oligarchy, democracy. <Why the term "Republic" with State itself doesn't bother you? The State itself is synonymous with the political. Hobbes in his works refers to the State sometimes as the "City" and that's how politics in principle extended itself even beyond city-states to being the nature of states in general. Republic is understood in the same way to refer to the City since the City itself is the public good or "commonweal". <how then does Bodin's use of the term "Republic" matter? Because we somewhat universally back what Plato says, that there's no distinction between what is economical (household) or political (city). As if there were no difference between a great household or a small state, that no matter whether it be a king, a statesman, a dictator, or household manager, they all govern and have the same expertise and craft anyways. … Hobbes calls a family a little city and uses that to refute the view that there were families before the institution of commonwealths or cities. The same is understood when we use the term "public servants" for statesmen, since servants are something a household management has, whether it be a domestic master and slave or any business or industry with boss and employee. Aristotle called it an erroneous view to see no difference between a great household and small state, but does mention how a Monarch should treat his subjects like his own kin and offspring and foreigners like slaves (I think) and how a Monarchy rules various kinds of state, like cities, nations, or empires like a household.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 08/02/2022 (Tue) 13:15:43.
>>4337 >how do you expect these philosopher kings to manage all the myriads of people? For reference; I'm not the alunyafag.
John Cook, regicide and lawyer from the trial of King Charles I. Cook writes here, Greater than any one, but less than all I have a few responses to this doctrine. Aristotle >and he who has this pre-eminence is in the relation of the Whole to a part The pre-eminent Monarch is a whole other ballpark. He brings up the Duke of Venice, what I guess John Cook means to say an elective kingdom and mixed state, and surely says this cannot refer to absolute Monarchs. Yet an absolute Monarch has the relationship of the Whole, the State being unmixed and the Monarch a superior, not taking any turn or being mixed A mixed State (which absolutists deny) would set the Monarchy as a mere part, not a whole, in equal basis with other forms of state, mixed with them as another mere component and not as the whole itself. This could be a Monarchy where the monarch is a subject of a superior form of state, whether it be oligarchy or democracy. Jean Bodin >But in a monarchy it is otherwise, where every one in particular, and all the people in general, and (as it were) in one body, must swear to the observation of the laws, and their faithful allegiance to one Sovereign Monarch,; who next unto God (of whom he holdeth his scepter and power) is bound to no man. For an oath carries with it reverence unto whom, or in whose name it is made, as still given unto a superiour. So the Monarch is a superior to both the people in particular and in general on Bodin's terms. Has a pre-eminence, or majesty, called Sovereignty. Francis Theobald (3rd pic) >"That the King is greater than any particular single man, but less than the whole body of men in a nation." >"If there be any force in this way of arguing, by the same reason it will follow, that a flock of sheep are more excellent than a man, because the shepherd is found out for the sheep, and not the sheep for the shepherd; for if there were no flocks of sheep, there would be no need of a shepherd." Thomas Hobbes >This great Authority being indivisible, and inseparably annexed to the Sovereignty, there is little ground for the opinion of them, that say of Sovereign Kings, though they be Singulis Majores, of greater Power than every one of their Subjects, yet they be Universis Minores, of less power than them all together. For if by All Together, they mean not the collective body as one person, then All Together, and Every One, signify the same; and the speech is absurd. But if by All Together, they understand them as one Person (which person the Sovereign appears,) then the power of all together, is the same with the Sovereign's power; and so again the speech is absurd; which absurdity they see well enough, when the Sovereignty is in an Assembly of the people; but in a Monarch they see it not; and yet the power of Sovereignty is the same in whomsoever it be placed. What I think John Cook is referring to is the food argument / water argument, that one wise man might outwit each person from a council, regardless they all together can bring more "food" to the table in terms of knowledge. My opinion is pre-eminence is another ballpark: the pre-eminent Monarch has the relationship of the whole and like Aristotle says is a kind of god or beast; that's why Hobbes calls the Leviathan a "Mortal God". The question of pre-eminence is always whatever justifies this Monarch to be a superior or on par to them all in general and has the relationship of the general to particular. Everyone knows Louis XIV's famous saying, "L'état, c'est moi". It is disputed whether Louis XIV said this. His motto is "Nec Pluribus Imar". This motto means the same, because it means "Not Unequal to Many". Compare that with what John Cook poses, Greater than any one, but less than all and you see the significance of it.
Good news. /monarchy/ is prepared to enter the /icup/. I decided to change the anthem for the sake of a friend. To When the King Comes Home In Peace Again
>>4349 >>4350 Cam on Charlie Score another goal
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>>4351 /MONARCHY/ WILL WIN Soon to beat /leftypol/ & /fascist/ at /icup/
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>>4352 But /fascist/ won't play...
>>4366 /fascist/ will be playing in this cup since they won the last one and are also the hosts for this current one despite the fact that they have scattered by now
>>4367 When is the I.C.U.P?
>>4368 >I.C.U.P I see what you did there. From their thread: Hard deadline on tactical changes: Monday, 15 August. Round 1: Saturday 20 August & Sunday 21 August Round 2: Saturday 27 August & Sunday 28 August Round 3: Saturday 3 September & Sunday 4 September Finals: Saturday 10 September & Sunday 11 September It's not mentioned in there but the draw/test stream will be done on August 12th.
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/monarchy/ icup thread: https://anon.cafe/icup/res/3966.html
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>>4370 Draw/test stream on August 12th at 18:00 UTC over at https://cytu.be/r/infinitycup >>4374 Nice work
>>4375 It is courtesy of an artist friend.
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Here are the group draws from yesterday's stream. You will be playing in Group D with /2hu/, /a/ and /ac/. Replay: https://fedimovie.com/w/diM25rGaYXMkNDR6e4sawG Your match against /leftypol/ starts at 2:11:11.
>>4382 I forgot to mention: there's another match earlier at 50:15 against /yuri/
>>4382 >>4383 what date, today?
>>4384 The stream already happened yesterday. That link is just the VOD for it. Speaking of, one thing about >>4382 is that the rest of the match is in Part 2: https://fedimovie.com/w/usfA8EFLgR9T3dEL29GbZH
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>>4386 /monarchy/ vs /2hu/ on August 20th
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'Pre-eminent Monarchy', in song: We must admire him everywhere Let's talk of his virtues, recounting his exploits~ Barely can we suffice, with all our voices! Barely can we suffice, with all our voices! Happy empire who follows his laws! The Monarch here is viewed as a superior, hinted at w/ the lyrics "Barely can we suffice, with all our voices!" Very little do other monarchists contemplate this, and toss around the style of majesty w/o a second thought.
This >>4345 related to >>4439
Monarchist bros please update your wiki page's roster with images and maybe a description of your players https://infinitycup.miraheze.org/wiki//monarchy//Roster
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/monarchy/ vs /2hu/ game starts at 21:00 UTC, I believe. https://cytu.be/r/infinitycup I think it will be broadcasted here^
>>4482 The games start at 17:30 UTC.
>>4485 Starts in one hour
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We have a good start on /icup/!
/icup/ was really fun.
I looked at the /monarchy/ wiki page & fixed a few errors I saw. But the roster page I'm not sure how to make.
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>>4814 >king doesn't even know basic webdev Honestly you can't even call it webdev anymore; it's just dragging prebuilt UI elements around a canvas.
>>4824 It is kinda embarassing.
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>>4825 True, but good luck finding anyone else to do it who won't run it into the ground. Web development has become largely right brain over the past decade or so due to how easy it's gotten. This is why most websites look like shit these days. Websites were meant to be designed by hyper left brained autists with the kind of sheer focus on utility autism affords, not heavily right brained ethots that bloat up the page with megabytes and megabytes of CSS and javascript and HTML5 elements. We must retvrn to 90s Web 1.0 style and the corresponding Windows 3.1 era non compositing desktop environments. Compositing desktop environments are a tool developed by Satan with the express purpose of corrupting the good word of the digital world with inane garbage.
>>4827 okay, but the flipside is the BO already cant do anything. Im not sure making it require actual effort again is gonna improve that.
>>4828 >BO that doesn't know basic tech stuff Clearly, the IB situation is even worse than I thought.
No worries. I finished the work.
>>4830 I bet Graceposter doesn't even know what an SRV record is.
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/monarchy/ vs /a/ tomorrow
King James VI & I Speech >What God hath conjoined then, let no man separate. I am the husband, and all the whole isle is my lawful wife; I am the head, and it is my body; I am the shepherd, and it is my flock. I hope therefore no man will be so unreasonable as to think, that I am that am a Christian king under the gospel, should be a polygamist, and husband to two wives, that I being the head, should have a divided and monstrous body, or that being the shepherd to so fair a flock, whose fold hath no wall to hedge it but the four seas, should have my flock parted in two. >So my Sovereignty obliges me to yield to you love, government and protection: Neither did I ever wish any happiness to myself, which was not conjoined with the happiness of my people. I desire a perfect Union of Laws and persons, and such a Naturalizing as may make one body of both Kingdoms under me your King, that I and my posterity (if it so please God) may rule over you to the world's end; Such an Union as was of the Scots and Picts in Scotland, and of the Heptarchie over here in England. And for Scotland I avow such an Union, as if you had got it by Conquest, but such a Conquest as may be cemented by love, the only sure bond of subjection or friendship: that as there is over both but unus Rex, so there may be in both but unus Grex & una Lex >First, by my descent lineally out of the loins of Henry the seventh, is reunited and confirmed in me the Union of the two Princely Roses of the two Houses of Lancaster and Yorke, whereof that King of happy memory was the first Uniter Hobbes on the aim of James VI & I >And this was it our most wise King, King James, aimed at, in endeavouring the Union of his two Realms of England and Scotland. Which if he could have obtained, had in all likelihood prevented the Civil wars, which make both those Kingdoms at this present, miserable.
Alexander Hamilton >"I will go farther, and assert, that the authority of the British Parliament over America, would, in all probability, be a more intolerable and excessive species of despotism than an absolute monarchy. The power of an absolute prince is not temporary, but perpetual. He is under no temptation to purchase the favour of one part of his dominions, at the expence of another; but, it is his interest to treat them all, upon the same footing. Very different is the case with regard to the Parliament: The Lords and Commons both, have a private and separate interest to pursue. They must be, wonderfully, disinterested, if they would not make us bear a very disproportional part of the public burthens, to avoid them as much as possible themselves" >"You are mistaken, when you confine arbitrary government to a monarchy. It is not the supreme power being placed in one, instead of many, that discriminates an arbitrary from a free government." >"The nations of Turkey, Russia, France, Spain, and all other despotic kingdoms, in the world, have an inherent right, when ever they please, to shake off the yoke of servitude, (though sanctified by the immemorial usage of their ancestors;) and to model their government, upon the principles of civil liberty." This triggers me. I know Jean Bodin wouldn't agree w/ this, b/c he considered these places to be sovereign monarchies. Jean Bodin <But if the prince be an absolute Sovereign, as are the true Monarchies of France, of Spain, of England; Scotland, Turkey, Muscovy, Tartarie, Persia, Ethiopia, India, and of almost all the kingdoms of Africa, and Asia, where the kings themselves have the sovereignty without all doubt or question; not divided with their subjects: in this case it is NOT lawful for any one of the subjects in particular, or all of them in general, to attempt any thing either by way of fact, or of justice against the honour, life, or dignity of the Sovereign: albeit that he had committed all the wickedness, impiety, and cruelty that could be spoken; for as to proceed against him by way of justice, the subject has no such jurisdiction over his Sovereign prince : of whom depends all power and authority to command: and who may not only revoke all the power of his Magistrates; but even in whose presence the power of all Magistrates, Corporations, Colleges, Estates, and Communities cease, as we have said, and shall yet more fully in due place say. Now if it be not lawful for the subject by way of justice to proceed against his prince; the vassal against his lord; nor the slave against his master; and in brief, if it not be lawful, by way and course of justice to proceed against a king, how should it then be lawful to proceed against him by way of fact, or force. For question is not here, what men are able to do by strength and force, but what they ought of right to do: as not whether the subjects have power and strength, but whether they have lawful power to condemn their Sovereign prince. Now the subject is not only guilty of treason of the highest degree, who has slain his Sovereign prince, but even he also which has attempted the same; who has given counsel or consent thereunto; yea if he have concealed the same, or but so much as thought it… And albeit that the laws inflict no punishment upon the evil thoughts of men; but on those only which by word or deed break out into some enormity: yet if any man shall so much as conceit a thought for the violating of the person of his Sovereign prince, although he have attempted nothing, they have yet judged this same thought worthy of death, notwithstanding what repentance soever he have had thereof. As in proof it fell out with a gentleman of Normandy, who confessed himself unto a Franciscan Friar, to have had a purpose in himself to have slain Francis the first, the French king: of which evil purpose and intent he repenting himself, received of the frier absolution, who yet afterward told the king thereof, who sending for the gentleman, and he confessing the fact, turned him over to the parliament of Paris for his trial, where he was by the decree of that high court condemned to death, and so afterwards executed. Another passage caught my eye from Hamilton. >"Were there any room to doubt, that the sole right of the territories in America was vested in the crown, a convincing argument might be drawn from the principle of English tenure… By means of the feudal system, the King became, and still continues to be, in a legal sense, the original proprietor, or lord paramount, of all the lands in England.*—Agreeable to this rule, he must have been the original proprietor of all the lands in America, and was, therefore, authorized to dispose of them in what manner he thought proper." Archibald Kennedy >There is, in every Family, a Sort of Government without any fixed Rules; and indeed it is impossible, even in a little Family, to form Rules for every Circumstance; and therefore it is better conceived than expressed; but perfectly understood by every Individual belonging to the Family. The Study of the Father or Master, is for the Good of the Whole; all Appeals are to him; he has a Power, from the Reason and Nature of Things, to check the Insolent, or Indolent, and to encourage the Industrious: In short, the whole Affairs of the Family are immediately under the Care or Direction of the Father or Master; and this is a natural Prerogative, known and acknowledged by every Man living, who has ever had a Family, or been any Ways concerned in a Family, in all Ages and in all Places. His Majesty, as he is our political Father, his political Prerogative, from the like Circumstances and Reasons, is equally necessary. And this political Authority has been allowed the supreme Director, in all States, in all Ages, and in all Places; and without it, there would be a Failure of Justice. Although this author is for a mixed monarchy, this passage here feels absolutist.
Edited last time by Ramses_the_Great on 09/03/2022 (Sat) 05:18:35.
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Ebenezer Gay >Light is an Emblem of Authority. It is the Firstborn of Things visible: Hath the Pre-eminence among them, or Predominancy over them: >Rulers are the light of a People, and as when the Sun shineth brightly, there is a pleasant Day over the face of the Earth, so when they shine with Wisdom, Justice, Meekness and the like, and shed abroad the reviving Rays and benign Influences of good Govern|ment, there is a chearful Day of Prosperity enjoyed; truly their Light is sweet. >The Law of Gratitude obligeth People continually to pray for their Rulers. They that exercise Authority upon Men are called Benefactors, Luk. 22.25. and if Magistrates duly exercise the Power they have over others, they highly merit this Title from them, for they do a great deal of Good. They are stiled Gods, not only in respect of their Dignity, but because they resemble him in their extensive Beneficence. They are the Pillars of the Common-Wealth, the main Supporters of it, without which the Fabrick would unavoidably sink.— They are the Shields of the Earth, defending a People from their Enemies. They are the Shepherds of Israel, that with tenderness and Compassion feed the People according to the Integrity of their Hearts, and guide them according to the Skilfulness of their Hands. To them under God People are indebted for the Protection of their Lives and Liberties, Names and Estates, for the Preservation of good Order and happy Peace, for the Security and Comfort they have in all their Enjoyments. Rulers are God's Ministers for good to a People, attending continually on this very thing. Rom. 12.— They are vigilant and solicitous for the temporal Interest and spiritual Benefit of their People: studious in contriving, and industrious in prosecuting Measures for the advantage of the Publick. They take much Care and Pains to dispense Judgment, to en|courage Virtue, and suppress Vice. Such Rulers are call'd Lam. 4.20. the Breath of a People's Nostrils, and under their Shadow they enjoy Safety, eat the Fruits of their Labour, "possess the Comforts and Conveniences of Life, with security from Rapine, from Contention, from Solicitude, from continual fears of Wrong and Outrage." >It is true, that unjust and oppressive Rulers do a great deal of Mischief. Prov: 28.15. As a roaring Lion, and a ranging Bear, so is a wicked Ruler over the poor People. In|stead of feeding them as a Shepherd, he terrifies and devours them, like a roaring Lion and hungry Bear. Yet if Rulers are bad, People receive some Good from their Government, at least in comparison of the Mischiefs they would suffer from Anarchy, or a total want of Government. >Magistrates are God's Representatives upon Earth, they bear his Character, and shine with some Rays of his Majesty; and ought therefore to be highly respected according to the dignity of their Station. Much Honour is put upon them by God, and much should be paid unto them by Men. They are the Heads of the Tribes, and more honourable than their Brethren. They are the Protectors of the civil and religious Liberties of a People, the Conservators of the publick Peace, and Revengers to execute Wrath upon those that disturb it; and should be esteemed greatly, and had in Reputation for their Work sake. They are the Fathers of their Country, and the fifth Commandment obligeth us to honour them * When Joseph was made Ruler over all the Land of Egypt, they cried before him, Abrech, tender Father, (which our Translators render, Bow the Knee, Gen. 41.43.) It is the Duty of People to express their Satisfaction in, and Thankfulness for, the wise, just and beneficial Administrations of their Rulers: and commend the Skill and Faithfulness which they discover in the management of arduous and important Affairs. >People should not easily conceive Prejudices, nor utter Complaints against those in Authority. It is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the Ruler of thy People, Act. 23.5. It may be as commonly from Ignorance, as ill-Will, that Men speak evil of Dignities: They are wont to accuse, arraign and censure those Proceedings, which they are incompetent Judges of, not having Capacity or Opportunity to know the Reasons thereof. There are Arcana Imperii, the Mysteries of State, which every one cannot penetrate into. People should be willing to believe, that ordinarily their Rulers are able to discern more and farther than they, having greater Advantages therefor. They should be cautious lest they speak evil of those things which they understand not; and not presume that they know the way better than their Leaders. >People should take to themselves their share of the blame of the Mis-Conduct and Mal-Administration of the Government over them, and not impute it all to their Rulers. Much of the Fault is their own. Their Sins incense God's righteous Displeasure, so that he withholds or withdraws his Spirit and Presence from their Rulers, and then thro' the prevalence of Temptations, the Influence of bad Counsel, and the power of their own Lusts and Passions, they are misled into those Courses, which are destructive to the Weal and Tranquillity of a People >And certainly much Praise is due unto good Rulers from an obliged People: It is a just Debt they owe to their Protectors and Benefactors. The prudent and tender Fathers of a Country should be acknowledged and blessed >That our KING is a nursing Father, and our QUEEN a nursing Mother, who have express'd their tender Care of, and Concern for us, their poor but dutiful Children, in these distant parts of their Dominion. Myles Cooper >"Great shade of Locke, immortal Sage! >Bright Glory of thy Land, and Age. >… >The choicest Boon, of bounteous Heaven; >To curb, the lawless Tyrants Rule, >And rescue Slaves from Filmer's School; >Refute what Hobbes, what Oxford dreamt, >And shew the Ends, of Government; >TO ridicule, the biggot Rules, >Which Knaves devis'd to govern Fools; >To prove in spite of pedant claims, >God made not Men, for Charles, or James. >But bid them Tyrant Pow'r control, >Nor let a Part, enslave the Whole; Here's an utter rejection of monarchical pre-eminence.
Hail Britannia Immortal beacon shows the way Step forth and seek glory! Hoist your swords high into the clouds Hail Britannia! Our Emperor stands astride this world He'll vanquish every foe! His truth and justice shine so bright All hail his brilliant light! Ebenezer Gay >Light is an Emblem of Authority. It is the Firstborn of Things visible: Hath the Pre-eminence among them, or Predominancy over them
The Queen is Dead, Long Live the King!
Rest In Peace
>>5003 F in chat for the Queenie t. /ita/
>>5003 I hate Elizabeth II. She gave up the empire. Edward should have held the title and invoked his royal prerogative.
>>6779 Charles should resurrect it.
Thoughts on King Charles prostate problems? Grace OC of her getting a prostate check when?
>>2424 >STFU pagans >while holding a cross If only he knew...
>>5003 >hail the great betrayer
>the new king might be retarded >yes ok that makes sense but what happens when the monarch is a militant atheist or indifferent
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>>6949 *shrug* So it happens. Why? are you Catholic? Not every King is going to be Louis IX.
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ngl I'm kinda getting fed up with people whose only affection for monarchy is as denominational jewelry or crusader meme.
>>6954 Thats unfortunate, uh I hope its not me thats upset you. I thought you liked board war stuff so thats why i involved you. Sorry if it annoyed you. I'm just trying to find an excuse to hang out with you.
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>>6956 >came here to ask hypothetical questions idk monarchists don't like standard hypotheticals or silly and incredulous >what if questions
>>6957 ? Oh you were responding to someone in particular on here. Sorry just saw your post on the front page, and came to say hi. Well hope that other guys leaves you alone if hes bugging you then. Well. Have a great day man.
What is your lörs onion on America bringing democracy to third world countries?


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