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Comic writers losing control of their creations Anonymous 09/01/2021 (Wed) 02:13:34 No. 17466
How many instances have you seen of writers getting screwed out of how their series/characters/whatever are portrayed and complain about it later? In a recent DC Black Label book (Suicide Squad: Get Joker), they had Wild Dog in that universe be part of the Jan. 6th Capitol Hill tour insurrection as a right wing fanatic, and his original creators Max Allan Collins and Terry Beatty went bitching to BleedingCool about it, and that made me curious about other incidents. Here's the rant: https://archive.is/9NiSS >My first reaction at discovering Wild Dog had been recruited into the Suicide Squad as the leader of the Jan. 6 Insurrection as a defecating Proud Boy-style seditionist was bewildered shock. Basically, "Huh?" That quickly grew to rage, expressed mostly as, "F-ck DC," and "F-ck the writer." I shared these sentiments with Wild Dog's artist/co-creator, Terry Beatty, and he basically tried to calm me down. But, obviously, it gradually worked him into a rabid lather, too. > For me, it's settled into disappointment and disgust. Wild Dog was conceived as a home-grown costumed hero. No cape, no cowl, just what could be put together out of such items as a hockey mask (with its Jason resonance) and body armor and real-world stuff from a hardware store and a home workshop. The usual "what if" all fiction writers operate from – "what if" somebody decided to actually be a costumed hero? > The results were not always beneficial. When Wild Dog found himself confronted by a would-be Bucky to his Captain America, despite our hero's best efforts to discourage the Pup's participation, the child is nearly killed. Terry and I pursued this with Ms. Tree – she was a vigilante, too, but wound up both in jail and in a mental institution. I might add in the Ms. Tree feature, Terry and I explored such then-current (and still current, unfortunately) topics as date rape, abortion clinic bombings, and gay bashing. > Some defenders of what we see as a perverted use of our creation dismiss it on the grounds that Wild Dog is a minor, forgotten character. Well, tell that to DC, who have used the character in at least three other comics, most recently as a cast member of the Cave Carson comic book, and to the CW network, where Wild Dog was a recurring character on Arrow. > Wild Dog debuted in a four-issue mini-series, had a regular slot in Action Weekly, and a "Special" double-length one-shot. In addition Terry is an Eisner-winning Batman artist, and we were Eisner nominees for our Ms. Tree work at DC. I wrote a year of Batman as well as two Batman graphic novels and was the initial writer of the Tim Burton-era Batman newspaper strip. My graphic novel (with Richard Piers Rayner), Road to Perdition, generated an Academy Award-winning film that is often cited as one of the best comic book movies ever made, and the graphic novel itself appears on many "Best of" lists. As recently as 2011 Terry and I did Return to Perdition for DC. > So what? So Terry and I both have long relationships with DC and might have expected better where one of our creations is concerned. Yes, DC owns the rights to the character, but simple courtesy and common decency might suggest going down this path with Wild Dog was ill-advised – and that at least the creators should be warned. After all, invoking the Jan. 6 riot was bound to attract attention and controversy – shock value was the point, after all. > Of course we weren't informed, just as we were not told about Wild Dog being used on the Arrow TV show. We weren't paid for that (one of the few things our contract gave us) until that fact went public. I have worked with many terrific people at DC, but DC itself remains what it's always been – a corporation built on the bones of two Cleveland teenagers. > As for Brian Azzarello, who I have never met, I have to wonder what kind of writer uses the creation of another writer in such a reckless, disrespectful manner. Azzarello is one of a generation of comics writers who owe a certain debt to our Ms. Tree, the first successful crime comic book in decades when it appeared in 1981. Still the longest running private eye comic book of all time (50 issues plus specials), it paved the way for everything that followed. We might have expected better thanks than this. > DC owning Wild Dog doesn't stop it being characterized as my work – the fame of Road to Perdition guarantees I will be mentioned in the context of a character who is tied to a political movement I abhor. But a modicum of consideration from the publisher, and some respect from the writer, is too much to expect from the company and talent who ignore Bill Finger's Batman in favor of Batman fingering Catwoman.
So these couple of self-important liberal faggots are upset that the dime-a-dozen Casey Jones knock-off they made for DC got used without their personal approval? I suggest they get in line with probably everyone else that ever made a character for the Big 2.
>>17467 I always thought writers understood from the start the shit they made for capeshit wasn't there's. I mean, it's not like Moore and Watchmen where he got cucked out a whole story and they reprint it constantly solely to deny him any shekels. It's not often for an OC to catch on and unless management pushes for them, a writer wants to cocksuck them (like say Bendis self-inserting as Nigger-Spidey), or fan-demand is autistically stubborn enough to persist until management finally decides to throw them a bone (like the autism involving Wally West). There's enough minor villains and heroes to fill out entire wikis whose last appearances were in 19whenever or 20whatever who get dragged back out as cannon fodder for events because "we can't kill marketable characters goyim", and I bet you a good deal of them were meant by their creators to be the next big thing since Batman.
Obviously Collins' objection has more to do with Wild Dog being written as an alt-right strawman than him being used at all. Equating a Punisher derivative to a boomer at the Capital is pretty insulting.
>>17480 From OP's post < will be mentioned in the context of a character who is tied to a political movement I abhor The butthurt is because he personally dislikes whatever ideology he equates the Capital protest with. Hence Collins being a liberal faggot.
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>>17480 >alt-right strawman You can tell from his interview that he's a leftist who's made because is being made one of those scary maga people. Not that Qboomers shouldn't be shat on of course, as they're living strawmans.
Didn't Liefeld get pissed about Shatterstar being turned gay and say something about wanting to undo sometime before SJWshit became verboten to question in he workplace, or am I misremembering?
>>17527 Yes, he did say something along those lines. Of course, the early SJWs shouted him down, because pozzing everything in sight is more important to them than anything else.
Oh I see how it is. It's perfectly fine for them to gender, race, and sexuality swap characters, but the one time one of their characters gets gets a slight political change, then it's Heavens-to-Betsy terrible! Sound the alarms! Fucking hypocrites.
>>17555 Slight political change to something that I don't like, you mean. I guarantee you if this no name faggot was said to have been arrested for being involved in BLM this author would not have uttered a peep.
>>17466 >Max Allan Collins and Terry Beatty >>17481 >Hence Collins being a liberal faggot. Collins is in no way shape or form a later day liberal faggot, but he's your typical boomer Hollyweirdo liberal which is a very different beast. And their beef with the Orange Ganorage Man is that Trump did that one thing you are never supposed to do as a boomer man. If you're a boomer man you are to worship media approved wammen even if they've got dirty hands in the pot because the boomer woman is supposed to get her turn. Any boomer male that tells said approved media chick to beat it and leave is violating that pedestal worshiping rule of Holly weirdos land. Having said that, I also think it's deaf and dumb that Max Allen Collins has any remaining relationship with DC anymore since the editorial New York Staff he's talking about got flushed out not once twice but thrice after the 2010's. Also it's rather hypocritical that after doing years of coastie conservative approved works of detective and action fiction and working on Dick Tracy, that he stupidly thinks he'd own anything from a work for hire project.
I heard Rob Renzetti really wanted to continue with My Life as a Teenage Robot, but Nickelodeon has the rights and ignores him. That's why he supports the fanmade season 4 & 5, but it's on the fence when even if the first episode will be done given how easily fan projects crap out due to laziness and background drama.
I think W.I.T.C.H The creators claimed the wanted it to be different and a one arc only ( they wanted to end it around 12 or 16 chapters) but Disney Italy changed that. There was another comic made by a german guy who was using Disney Italy as a publisher. his stuff was not selling. Got put on "hiatus" and he could never use it back.
>>21027 There's a fan made mlaatr season happening?
>>21034 Yeah, apparently it's been a thing in progress since like 2014 but still active with updates (last video on their channel was just 13 days ago). I only learned about it recently myself. https://mlaatrrebooted.webs.com
>>17466 Shit like this makes me happy that DC and WB bleeding so much money. Peacemaker couldn’t hit a million views on HBO max and beaten by the sex and the city sequel.
>>22438 They wouldbve made more cash if they released the Ayer cut of the Suicide Squad.
>>21047 I hope nobody pulls a Fusion Fall and snitches on the production.
>>22441 Everyone would just pirate it.
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>>22438 >beaten by the sex and the city sequel. Which, I hear, is ALSO doing terribly. So a terrible show was defeated by a terrible show about former sluts dealing with their prolapsed vaginas.
>>22445 I know I pirated the Synder Cut, but it would still bring more eyes to the service. Its much easier paying for a streaming service than downloading a 10gb 4k file for a crappy movie.
>>22442 Wait that's how it got shut down!? Screw the bastard who did that.
>>22469 The fan revival, the orginal got shutdown because of money.
>>22456 It's much easier just not watching the crappy movie to begin with. I really don't get the snyder cut.
>>22476 I personally enjoyed it, its not amazing but with some intermediate breaks it was entertaining. People looking into the film probably got curious considering all the drama that surrounded it. Even now there's articles being written on how much of a shitshow the production was.
>>22486 The Snyder Cut was still bad but it's a hell of a lot better than The Whedon Cut. At least it's consistently bad instead of bad in multiple different ways at once.
>>22487 It's practically the same cut but doesn't line up with other movies in the universe, made Cyborg incredibly OP, extended scenes to an awkward degree, & made Darkseid fucking stupid by just forgetting about the planet he lost on that he knew the equation was on.
>>22489 >It's practically the same cut You're nuts. The actual plot is very significantly different. It's way more different than most Director's Cuts. >but doesn't line up with other movies in the universe, It lines up a lot better with the movies that came out before Justice League. The movies after Justice League were made as sequels to the theatrical cut, so of course they don't match something that isn't the theatrical cut. This is like saying Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut is worse than the Richard Lester cut because the Donner cut doesn't match up with Superman III or IV. >extended scenes to an awkward degree Yeah I do think a lot of it could have still been cut. WB/Whedon cut the wrong parts. Also note I still said it's a bad movie. Quite bad. But it's so much better than the Whedon cut that it's almost impressive, if you watch it with that in mind. If you watch it on its own, it's exactly what one would expect from a sequel to Batman v Superman (and the Extended Edition or whatever came out, if you want to get more autistic about it). It's a bad movie that's a fitting sequel to another bad movie. At least they go together. It's almost ridiculous enough to make me want to see the end, since it's clearly part 2 of 3 of Snyder's stupid trilogy. Or 3 of 4, but Man of Steel actually feels fairly different. But of course I only say it's "almost" ridiculous enough. I'm not losing sleep over not seeing what exactly he was going to do with Jared Leto Joker. But that ending was goddamn hilarious and better than anything in the Whedon Cut, if only in unintentional ways.
>>22490 The plot is exactly the same. No it actively contradicts Aquaman. Mera's parents are dead in the Snyder cut despite her dad being a big part of the plot in Aquaman. The worst thing any movie can be is boring. The Snyder Cut is so bad & joyless that I couldn't make it past 2 hours sitting down to watch it. It's a mess. A boring gray mess with most of the Whedon style humor being exactly what Zack wanted to begin with. Not to mention all the massive disrespect to every character through their designs, personalities, & actions.
>>22470 >>22442 FusionFall was an MMO so guild drama came with the package (esecially from kids considering it was a CN-based one), but what sort of motive would anyone have to crash a MLAATR reboot?
>>22500 Autistic rage?
>>22491 >The plot is exactly the same. Acting like Darkseid actually showing up doesn't change things is pretty ridiculous. There were plenty of changes. Again, I'm not even saying it's good, but it's notably different. >No it actively contradicts Aquaman. Aquaman came out well after Justice League. It was a sequel to the theatrical cut. >Boring >Joker shows up and pretty much says "we live in a society." >Boring It was less boring than the Whedon cut. That's not saying much. >Not to mention all the massive disrespect to every character through their designs, personalities, & actions. Which is also the case in the theatrical cut.
>>22506 Darkseid showing up changes little plot wise. We know Darkseid is the real big bad already. We know Steppenwolf is serving another figurehead. Replacing him in a different cut doesn't do anything to the plot itself. It just makes Darkseid look pathetic with how he lost once to a god that Wonder Woman killed. Yes? That's what I'm saying. Aquaman is a sequel to the Whedon cut. Because the Snyder cut makes the movie impossible with how it changed things. That's bullshit. I don't know how you could sit through 4 hours of of that drab edgy dreck & be entertained. Well yes. But again that's Snyder's fault. Whedon just came in after the fact to patch the film together because Snyder's daughter killed herself.
>>22509 The entire final fight being different is a big deal. My whole thing is that I said it's stupid to blame the Snyder Cut for not being consistent with movies that were made as sequels to the alternate cut. I then said that it was just less boring than the Whedon cut, which is not saying much. I didn't say it was very entertaining. The Whedon Cut is like two bad movies combined into one, and worse in sight of the wider series. At least the Snyder Cut is only one bad movie that matches the bad movie it's a sequel to. I'd rather one kind of bad than two.
>>22510 The only difference is how Steppenwolf dies though. Unless you count the Flash time traveling thing but that didn't have anything to do with Darkseid's inclusion on screen. But it doesn't match the universe it's supposed to be part of. Ironically built by Snyder to begin with. Look both are a mess but Snyder's is even worse than Whedon's. Most of the movie is still the same with the same beats that Snyder had in the original brought back in his cut.
>>22511 >But it doesn't match the universe it's supposed to be part of. Ironically built by Snyder to begin with. It matches the movies that preceded it. The sequels to Justice League are an alternate timeline that happens after the alternate cut of Justice League. They also happen to be shit movies just like this one, so I don't really care. But at least I can watch Batman v Superman and Justice League and it looks like Snyder gave a shit. He is stupid and the shit he was giving was stupid, but at least it looked like he tried. I can respect it on some low level. Not the case for the Whedon Cut. >entire climax is different >most of the movie is the same A whole bunch of the movie is very different. There is a lot of stuff that feels like it would have been trimmed if Snyder made it a theatrical movie, and probably should have been trimmed anyway, but there is a lot of stuff that isn't just extra, but alternate, and substantially different. It's a lot more different than Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut, for example.
>>22511 >Snyder's is even worse than Whedon's. Anon I know its difficult dealing with your retardation but you should really consider taking your meds.
>>22522 Oh wow a light hearted gag with the comedic character. How awful. At least bring up actual writing differences if you're gonna defend Snyder.
>>22525 Whedon's bad attempts at humor are especially bad because they clash with the rest of the film. His SJW shit isn't helpful either. Like the opening of his cut featuring "white supremacists" attacking some muslims. Look, I'll believe a man can fly, but this is a bit much.
>>22522 Snyder's version is four hours long filled with pointless slow motion shots, additional plot holes and character assassination. You're a normalfag who liked it because twitter memes told you to.
>>22532 >because twitter memes told you to. >even knowing what they talk about. Congrats you just outed yourself faggot.
>>22527 I'm not defending the humor. But saying bad humor is worse than a miserable edgy slog through 4 hours of nothing but emo characters is ridiculous. Especially when most of the humor is still part of the Snyder cut. Meaning it's what Snyder wanted to begin with.
>>22538 No, there is a very noticable difference between the Whedon material and the Snyder material. I'd rather one bad movie that's the product of one bad director, at least over two halves of two bad movies from two different bad directors, stitched together because of corporate meddling.
>>22536 >You don't like wojaks? You must be a cuckchanner since only they would know that cuckchanners spam wojaks
>>22543 Not when you look at their humor. It's both the same kind of cringe.
>>22598 Well now you're just being disingenuous, especially if you're gonna pretend there were as many attempts at humor in the Snyder Cut. Hell, they retooled Suicide Squad to add more humor as well, because it, in style of the Snyder movies that preceded it, was also supposed to lack humor, or at least that terrible Whedon style of humor. I don't know who you think you're gonna convince my making such a ridiculous claim. You need to be more subtle if you're gonna just bullshit like this.
>>22599 Nigger how? I saw the fucking movie. The jokes are practically the same. That's all.
>>22601 Okay. Anyone who has seen the movies can judge for themselves. And they have, and everyone knows Whedon is the bad joke guy and Snyder is the dark and edgy guy.
>>22450 I find it fascinating we starting to see anti-white female media backfiring. It almost impressive how you make a woke reboot of sex in the city of all things. That white women overwhelmingly hate.
>>22487 Honestly I agree with razorfist on unhinged joss Whedon. He calls out Gal Gadot being English second language and Ray cry racism fisher for being a horrible actor. As time goes zack Synder not only proven to be a hack but he far more SJW than joss Whedon.
>>23029 >As time goes zack Synder not only proven to be a hack but he far more SJW than joss Whedon. I don't know what Snyder has said outside the movie itself, but his cut doesn't have the part from the opening where some "innocent muslims" get "hate crimed" by "white supremacists." Whedon just had to add that. I've done my best to forget most of the rest of both cuts, but Whedon's was far more SJW, and his movies in general are more SJW than Snyder's movies.
>>23031 >I don't know what Snyder has said outside the movie itself Zack synder did the whole woke casting long before Disney doing with marvel. Including intentionally casting a faggot to play the flash.


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