Why would a bum fight crime instead of just getting a job or something?

>>24558 Sometimes a man needs more than food in his belly, sometimes a man hungers for justice in a world that's abandoned him.

>>24453 Perhaps this speaks to a deeper truth where one must be capable of saving/helping themselves, before they can help others/society. Any superhero that was born a human/raised human is not going to be permanently afflicted with this issue, as, generally, their abilities are going to grant them the ability to at least work a normal job and live a modest life. Any superhero that isn't human either transforms into one to maintain cover, or doesn't actually need shelter and lives in a spaceship\self-built habitat. To have a terminally homeless superhero, the hero needs to simultaneously be able to fight crime, while being too stupid/too weak to engage with society when living as a normal human. Any kind of superhero that is too weak/too stupid to maintain a human job is very unlikely to be a superhero. It is possible to write stories where superheroes are temporarily homeless, this happens all the time, but I am aware of no way to sell someone able to fight crime but unable to take care of themselves. To take care of others and to save others, one must save themselves first.

>>24560 Just make him mentally ill. Moon Knight could be a good candidate.

>>24560 Not really though. I mean lets say superman needs money and for whatever reason has no journalism degree. Does he flip burgers? How long until he inevitably fucks up and flips a burger through the ceiling? Or maybe he's a used car salesman, but between trying to stop crime he never makes a sale. I mean hell you are telling me you can't write any compelling reasons why a man with super strength has a hard time finding and keeping steady employment? And finally >>24562 You are all just rewriting Rorschach from scratch.

>>24563 Superman won't flip a burger through the ceiling for the same reason he doesn't crush every doorknob he uses to dust. He's strong, but has control. If he had no control, he would be more like a beast. >I mean hell you are telling me you can't write any compelling reasons why a man with super strength has a hard time finding and keeping steady employment? He has to both be strong enough and intelligent enough to fight "for good" and be a superhero while also being dumb enough he can't maintain a living situation. What is he, a giant dog? Well he's not very superheroy in that case, he's just a force of nature that's at best neutral f not destructive. >>24563 Rorschach wasn't homeless he was perpetually on the run. I suppose he technically counts though. To make a homeless superhero just have the bad guy control the entire city.

>>24453 >There seriously needs to be more stories about homeless or struggling heroes Isn't it fairly common for capeshit heroes to be struggling economically for long streatch's of time. I recall daredevil sometimes finds his law firm in hot water's financially and I thought Spiderman hustling was a major part of his character for much of his history.

>>24564 >has to be intelligent enough to fight evil Wait what? I mean really? You see a rapist and you punch him in the face. The victim wanders off, you feel good and wander off, rapist wakes up says wtf and goes home for the night. To be clear superheroes aren't very good crime deterrents. In fact I would argue every superhero is fucking retarded, even Daredevil whose a goddamn lawyer seems confused about how an arrest and charge work. You just need a muscle bound freak who doesn't think five minutes ahead. That's your prototypical superhero. Basically a pro Wrestler who gets into street fights for little to no reason, in reality we'd call that man insane, in fiction though it's taken as a good guy thing. In fact I like the pro wrestler angle, have him accidently killing or crippling someone in the ring, and now when the story picks up its a few years later and he's totally blacklisted, living out of his truck, going city to city robbing small time drug dealers and shit for money.

>>24591 Are you that same faggot from the batman thread? You're such a joyless fuck. >well actually superhero's wouldn't be that effective if they were real.

>>24591 >>24593 I also have to ask, how much capeshit have you actually read?

>>24593 No, my only post there was a sarcastic comment at the beginning to the effect of "you are inviting the Batman autist to talk about epilogue" And lo and behold that was indeed a day later what occured. >>24594 Well. I mean. Like individual issues? Collected runs? Graphic novels? All counted together? Idk. It doesn't really matter exactly what you are asking because I haven't really kept track. It's been a lot of comics over several decades. No idea how many.

Homelessness isn't a bad premise, but it's hard to get a lot of mileage out of it if it's dependent on a character staying homeless because it restricts the situations you can put them in. Peter Parker taking pictures of himself for a publisher that hates his alter-ego might be considered hokey today, but it serves a purpose: to help involve Peter in situations where Spidey is inevitably needed and give him supporting characters to play off of. How do you do that with a homeless superhero without them being a perpetual drifter a la The Fugitive/The Incredible Hulk 1977?

>>24612 Well it depends on assumptions. If we assume all homeless wish they weren't then yeah any arc would be about getting out of that pit. But what if we assume other motivations exist? Drug and alcohol addiction seem to be the predominant real life examples of alternative motivations, but I've met hobos personally, and there are other motives. Some men hate the government and refuse on moral principles to ever pay a single penny in taxes which will inevitably be used by our government to transport and sell drugs and children. Others like the freedom of being a drifter. Some other are genuinely slightly crazy and simply cannot hold a job because they can't go 20 minutes without discussing something totally insane. Then you have those who simply drop out of society, who literally head into the woods to stealth camp in roving sites merely to exist outside of our culture. Others are survivalists who tire of prepping continually for a disaster which never comes. So they engineer a personal disaster of sorts. Sell all property and homes. Take a pack with the bare essentials and exist in the peripheral places adjacent to society. Some of these motives leave your eponymous hero far from other people, and that's gonna hurt a story. Others leave you with a more or less permanent place on the outskirts of city. Is it homeless if you have a home that no one recognizes as your property? What if no one cares. What if they cops like you and actively ignore calls about you. So yeah change the reason for being homeless from the assumed reason and you have a more or less good or at least better reason. I'm rambling.

They're called "adventurers" OP. They're in loads of fantasy comics.

>>24564 >Superman won't flip a burger through the ceiling for the same reason he doesn't crush every doorknob he uses to dust. He's strong, but has control. If he had no control, he would be more like a beast. Yeah but if he's flipping burgers maybe he's young. Maybe he just turned 18 and The Kents just died and it turns out they were massively in debt and the bank took the farm. Now he's an awkward nerdy teenager trying to make it on his own, so he moves to the city because that's where the jobs are, but he can't find anything and ends up flipping burgers, trying to save until he can afford rent, utilities, and tuition. He went to apply for a job at the Daily Planet, and Perry White saw his lack of experience and credentials and laughed right in his face. (Which is pretty much what happens in most of his modern origin stories.) So he goes to the less prestigious Daily Star instead, and George Taylor also laughs right in his face (usually he's the one who gives Clark a chance, but that's unrealistic for a guy with no experience or credentials). So Clark is left flipping burgers at night while going to school during the day. Sure he's strong, but in his mind he's still just nerdy young Clark Kent, and one day his boss yells at him for fucking up an order (and maybe he didn't even fuck it up. Not like fast food workers get the most respect from their bosses), and he gets surprised and flips a burger through the ceiling. Actually, a lot of this is just Spider-Man. Spider-Man would have been homeless through most of the '70s if Harry Osborn wasn't the nicest guy in the world, and let Peter stay rent free in his awesome apartment just because he was lonely, even though Peter was a total dick and Harry shouldn't have even been his friend. Also, Hal Jordan was near-homeless for a very long time. It's rarely brought up now, but Hal left the aerospace industry and became a traveling toy salesman for decades (and his solo series got cancelled for much of this time, so not many stories focused on it, but that was still his job for that era). Also it's kind of weird for him to become a toy salesman given the fact that he later became a canon child-molester to Arisia (but to be fair, she was coming on to him for years). But that's beside the point. He was basically homeless. Also, Hal Jordan is pretty much a dumbass. He isn't the smartest, but he has willpower, and that's what matters. Actually, Hal's dumb willpower is not terribly unlike Goku, who would also be homeless (and happy about it) if he didn't get child-married to a princess and then eat her entire fortune. And then he's lucky that he is friends with the world's richest woman, and that his son is married to Hulk Hogan's daughter. Also, isn't Spawn homeless? The Incredible Hulk was homeless in the tv show. Which is the best version of The Hulk, despite being vastly different from the source material. He remains homeless for the entire run of the show, and then the tv movies a decade later have him still mostly homeless, nearly 15 years after he originally became the Hulk. In fact, The Hulk is very often homeless in the comics, too, but his situation changes often, and he is frequently Hulk in the woods for months at a time, so I don't know if Hulk counts as homeless, or if he needs to be Banner to count as homeless. One time Banner was homeless and tried to stay at the YMCA, as homeless people do, but some gay guys tried to buttrape him and he hulked out and couldn't stay there anymore. >>24591 >Basically a pro Wrestler who gets into street fights for little to no reason, Spider-Man was a pro-wrestler before he gave it up because he felt it was wrong to use power for wealth and fame. Action is his reward.

>>24623 Its also over saturated to hell.

>>24728 Yeah I believe spawn was. And you get it man. That's what I'm saying.

>>24564 >What is he, a giant dog? Well he's not very superheroy in that case, he's just a force of nature that's at best neutral f not destructive. >implying Krypto isn't a superhero >implying Lockjaw isn't a superhero. >implying Ace isn't a superhero. >implying Streaky isn't a superhero. Yes Streaky is a cat, but your point would still apply and still be stupid. I'm not listing Comet since he was originally humanoid, hence why he wants so badly to give Supergirl his massive horse cock.

>>24788 >not only does krypton have aliens which look exactly like humans, but it has aliens which look exactly like dogs See this is why the original idea of superman being a human from the future was better.

>>24794 Take it from the perspective that the human form is the best form for intelligent sapient life to take.

>>24788 I would argue Krypto is sentient.

>>24794 The original idea was that Superman was some bald criminal that gets psychic powers. Krypton also has niggers. In a planet that's supposed to be a futuristic paradise, that is much more unrealistic than dogs. >>24812 He is usually treated as having the mind of an Earth dog. Lockjaw is also treated as a regular dog (even though I think he has an origin story where he was originally a human, but that's fucking stupid). Streaky is a regular cat that got superpowers. Ace is a regular dog who just fights crime because he was trained by Batman, just like Robin.

>>24453 Wasn't Darkman homeless? And also technically the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?

>>24972 Actually, come to think of it, most homeless in stories are Mole People, and Mole People are generally villains.

>>24794 >krypton have aliens which look exactly like humans Remember that in the DC universe capital G God is explicitly real, to the point a direct agent of His was a public asset of the allies in WW2. It's actually really easy to explain why aliens all look human: Most intelligent life was created by God in His image.

>>24813 >Krypton also has niggers. In a planet that's supposed to be a futuristic paradise, that is much more unrealistic than dogs. Are you implying that 13% of Krypton's population caused 100% of the planet's core to go into a nuclear fissile explosion?

>>25108 The guy who killed Krypton was called Black Zero. But he isn't a black guy from Vathlo Island. He's an alien pirate.

This was a good thread, and deserves a second think.

>>24560 >To have a terminally homeless superhero, the hero needs to simultaneously be able to fight crime, while being too stupid/too weak to engage with society when living as a normal human. Any kind of superhero that is too weak/too stupid to maintain a human job is very unlikely to be a superhero. This is stupid and shows you aren't very familiar with superhero stories, since it's not exactly uncommon to say that being a superhero is precisely what fucks up the character's personal lives, including finances. Spider-Man is a genius, and should by all accounts be an Iron Man or Reed Richards type billionaire scientist, but his psychological hangups, his overwhelming sense of responsibility, results in him shunning his own personal life because he needs to keep saving people. Other stories, like a lot of Superman stories, deal with the same topic, but specifically say that Superman has come to accept that he can't save everyone, and has learned to take an appropriate amount of time out for himself, for his own mental and emotional well-being. But it makes perfect sense for other characters to not feel the same way. It makes perfect sense for some characters to be just a little further on the "responsibility" end of the spectrum than Spider-Man, and thus be homeless.

>>24453 Be careful what you wish for.

I'm surprised none of you have mentioned The Maxx yet. You don't get more homeless than this guy. Give it a read, it's pretty short.

>>30853 OP here, for some reason it never passed my mind when making the thread. Even though I recently rewatched the hbo series at the time.

Spawns a hobo.

>>30891 Spawn is a nigger

>>25107 >an agent of God >public asset of the (((Allies))) in WW2 So either (((G_d))) is evil or a demon in disguise.

>>30898 DC comics was created & operated by jews. They have a certain bias.

>>30895 You arent wrong.

>>30898 >>30899 Not just jews, but importantly, Americans, for an American audience. Of course they're not going to make a protagonist character be on the enemy side. They do have Enemy Ace, but they didn't exactly invent the Red Baron, and of course that series was well after World War I. Also, in DC, Hitler got the Spear of Destiny, AKA the Spear of Longinus, the spear used to stab Jesus when he was on the cross. He used its powers to keep most Allied superheroes from interfering in the war. But importantly, using its power at all is usually treated as inherently unholy, and thus Hitler was acting against God by using it. Also, The Spectre isn't just an agent of God (the literal Angel of Death from Exodus), but he is merged with a human, who happens to be an American. Note that the Angel of Death is treated as unstable when not bound to another being, as he sometimes goes too far, so the guy he's attached to has a great deal of control over him, to the point that one time the demon Neron managed to get The Spectre to bind to him, and Neron then had Spectre powers, and the Spectre personality couldn't do much about it. So if Spectre's normal human host, Jim Corrigan, wanted to fight on his country's side, he would. Also, all that shit about The Spectre being another being that fused with Corrigan wasn't introduced until many decades later anyway. Until then he was just treated as a ghost with crazy powers that God gave him. In Marvel, Hitler survived WWII by putting his brain in a clone body, and created a "Hate-Ray" with psionic/empathic abilities which he could use to manipulate the emotions of large numbers of people at the same time. He then took on the costumed identity called The Hate-Monger and battled the Fantastic Four, among others. Note that in the '60s, when this story happened, many characters, including Mr. Fantastic and The Thing, were treated as being World War II veterans. One time Hate-Monger re-appeared and when unmasked turned out to be a werewolf, but it turned out this was just another guy called the Man-Beast impersonating Hitler/Hate-Monger. But still, yes, Hitler-616 is much more on-the nose and therefore dumber than Hitler (Earth-One/New Earth). DC did a much better job, in my opinion. But yes, it was jews. Lee and Kirby especially didn't exactly bother with subtlety about it, either.

>>30906 That was a lotta pointless words to just come to the same basic fact.

>>30906 I agree this was long and pointless as the other anon says, but I differ in my conclusions. I enjoy off topic tangents explaining obscure super heroes. By all means continue please.

>>30906 >>30909 Actually I looked it up. Hitler having the Spear of Destiny was introduced in All-Star Squadron, written by Roy Thomas, who has described himself as a "lapsed Lutheran." So surprisingly, not jews. Most DC characters from actual World War II era comics did not actually fight in the war. They would sometimes deal with saboteurs and fifth-columnists and whatnot, but few went to fight in the actual war. That concept was introduced in the '80s, as a retcon, because Roy Thomas, a major Golden Age nerd, wanted to see all the Golden Age guys team up, more than they had in actual Justice Society stories. He figured World War II would be a logical reason to do that. But he also needed a way to make it so their activities were secret, and thus could reasonably be retconned into 40 year old continuity. Thus Hitler had the Spear of Destiny, which could prevent even The Spectre from interfering in the war directly.

>>30891 Also he is not a super hero. He is a demonic entity in spandex.

>>30971 Yeah, but he's still a superhero. That's like saying Superman isn't a superhero, he's an alien in spandex.

>>30971 >>30973 Technically an anti-hero. Trying it back to the jews, he's just as heretical/disrespectful to Christianity. The Spawn comics make God a villain alongside Satan. Taking credit from the real Goddess who actually created the universe. At one point Spawn even remade earth without God or Satan.

>>30971 >He is a demonic entity in spandex. <implying it's made of spandex and not the skins of aborted children

>>24453 >There seriously needs to be more stories about homeless or struggling heroes. I'd rather be reading stories about homeless and struggling comic book writers and artists. Also suicidal comic book writers and artists.

>>30985 Still a superhero, just one from a series that got totally cucked.

>>31034 It was always cucked since it was always Todd McFarlane.

>>31034 >>31035 Okay sure whatever, but like he is homeless. So the idea has been done, just rarely focusing too much on the hobo part. But would that be more entertaining? Or boring.

>>31043 It'd be kinda pointless. He's a hell monster. Does he even need to sleep?

>>31044 I dont think I ever read a single issue of spawn.

>>30853 Underrated gem >>30857 MTV, not HBO

>>25107 I might know this feel

>>24813 <Krypton also has niggers. In a planet that's supposed to be a futuristic paradise, that is much more unrealistic than dogs. >usually portrayed as an ice planet or, at least, a planet with a red sun and therefore not particularly warm or subject to heavy UV rays >develop negroes >negroes who somehow don't die from the rickets I swear, I'm so sick of the black Kryptonian shit. A black Superman would have half or less of the power a white Superman possesses. White skin is meant to take advantage of a northern, often darker climate, whereas black skin is meant to be a natural sunscreen in the hottest places. Having black Kryptonians is every bit as pantsu-on-head retarded as having black Asgardians.

>>33436 Kryptonian powers in the first place, nevermind looking identical to humans, is pantsu-on-head retarded for supposed science fiction. Now, if superman was some kind of space-fantasy, with Kryptonians being gnomes or gods or whatever who just happen to live in space, it would be less retarded. I guess early sci-fi basically was fantasy that just replaced the word "magic" with "science" but otherwise kept the same basic feel.

>>33436 >>33439 The sci-fi explanation for Kryptonian powers is that they absorb sunlight through their skin, but since they come from a red sun, the higher energy of a yellow sun gives them superpowers. They're basically humanoid plant people. I can accept that. But yes, anon raises a good point that the inhabitants of Vathlo Island should be much weaker than other Kryptonians, since their skin would absorb less solar energy. Of course, in their attempt to placate '70s SJWs, they said that the niggers of Vathlo actually had super-science even by Kryptonian standards, so maybe they're all just juiced up on alien super-steroids or whatever.

>>33440 Krypton has always been a fucked up place, no matter how you slice it. Especially in the Silver Age. They had a sudden baby boom of melon-headed children born without thumbs. Krypton's solution? Abandon the babies on a deserted island to die horrible deaths. Except the babies somehow lived long enough to realize they had powerful telekinesis and, therefore, had no need of thumbs. I guess they still needed their fingers for sex. Anyhoo, they came back to the city of their parents and basically gave them the "We're too advanced to shame you, and we forgive you for your shameful, shameful activities" speech. I've been trying to find examples from the comic online but "superman no thumb babies" isn't exactly working for me. It was a backup story in the old Superman comics run about Kryptonian history.

I can't even imagine how fun it must have been to be the writers, back in the Silver Age. Luring fans in with covers that had nothing to do with anything and then telling one shaggy dog story after another. And the insane shit the heroes got up to was just hilarious! Can't think of anything for Superman to do this week? Red kryptonite, bitches! Luthor's schemes getting a little stale? Bam! He's the Superman of his own planet and Kal-El is powerless and universally reviled by the people. Writing may have gotten better (kinda) over the years, but holy crap did the fun come bleeding out of the comics.

>>33440 The sci-fi explanation for Kryptonian powers is that they absorb sunlight through their skin That's the fuel source, it doesn't explain how their bodies do it. The explanation for that is currently that their bodies generate some energy force field that gives them powers, but how their biology does this is not explained in any detail. As far as I know, the color of a star has no bearing on the kind of light it gives off or energy it has. The idea that kryptonian biology is, or ever could be through any natural or scientific processes, such that they conveniently gain all these powers is beyond retarded. They didn't even evolve to have these powers, they just happen to have biology which someone procedures all these very specific powers which would require very specific mechanisms laser vision, levitation, x-ray vision, an energy field that functions in such a way to allow all these to work if they could even exist at all. It's the least scientific, most magical logic-defying bullocks known to man. That doesn't make it bad, but it does make it a bit silly for ol' supes to be considered a science-based character.

>>33515 >That's the fuel source, it doesn't explain how their bodies do it. The explanation for that is currently that their bodies generate some energy force field that gives them powers, but how their biology does this is not explained in any detail. They absorb solar energy through their skin cells and then their skin cells spit it back out as a thin psychic aura. This psychic aura is what really gives Superman super strength, not his actual muscles. It's why he can catch Lois at super speed and not just cut her in half in the process. His aura subconsciously extends to things he touches. He can use telekinesis to levitate himself, to levitate things he is touching and effectively have super strength, to propel himself forward at super speed, to compress the air in his lungs and allow super-breath, etc. Superboy, being an altered clone, has a variation of these powers, where he outright has tactile telekinesis, and can consciously use telekinesis but only on things he is touching. Heat Vision is a krpytonian body expelling excess solar energy, and it just so happens to be through the eyes. And uh... I guess he can move super fast just because he has super cells. I suppose telekinesis wouldn't fully explain that one. I can accept that. >As far as I know, the color of a star has no bearing on the kind of light it gives off or energy it has. Of course it does. it gives off different wavelengths. That's what color is. Longer wavelengths have less energy. Red light has less energy than yellow light. >The idea that kryptonian biology is, or ever could be through any natural or scientific processes, such that they conveniently gain all these powers is beyond retarded. Well yeah, it's a fucking comic book. >hey didn't even evolve to have these powers, they just happen to have biology which someone procedures all these very specific powers which would require very specific mechanisms laser vision, levitation, x-ray vision, an energy field that functions in such a way to allow all these to work if they could even exist at all. I'm pretty sure there are stories about prehistoric Krypton that describe the slow evolution of their bodies, adapting to absorbing more and more light as their sun got older and redder.

>>33515 I miss Brave and the Bold.

>>33521 >their skin cells spit it back out as a thin psychic aura How? Plus things like 'psychic' and 'aura' are magical bullshit which hackfraud "science"-fiction writers stuff into their settings because they want to have their cake and eat it. >telekinesis Impossible magic bullshit >Heat Vision is a krpytonian body expelling excess solar energy, and it just so happens to be through the eyes Well lazers use lenses so I guess there's an iota of logic to them coming through his eyes. >it gives off different wavelengths Learnt something new. Still doesn't make sense why it would depower him though. Freeze-breath ironically enough has an actual scientific explanation, pic related. >Absorbing more light That explains how their bodies absorb more light.They didn't evolve to generate a psychic aura that works in such a way to give all the powers superman has. Even if they did it wouldn't change anything else I said.

>>33531 >telekinesis is magic Look man, the reason it's called science fiction and not just real science is because there are bits where you have to suspend your disbelief a bit. The trick is how far down those bits are buried. John Byrne had a problem with Superman being able to lift an airplane without his hands punching holes into it, so he invented the psychic aura idea. Is it still fiction? Yes, but the place where you have to suspend your disbelief is buried a little deeper. Instead of having to suspend disbelief to accept that that airplane can support its own weight on an area the size of Superman's hands, now you just have to accept that, through some biological process that is not thoroughly delved into, sunlight can be converted into a psychic energy, which is a real form energy that has also just not been thoroughly delved into. It also helps that there were already a zillion psychic guys in the DCU before this explanation was offered, and most of them are said to be sci-fi rather than fantasy as well.

>>33541 No. Science Fiction required you to suspend your disbelief in that "we haven't done it yet, but we might be able to". Not "it's complete capeshit garbage". Gay superheroes aren't Science Fiction no matter how hard you masturbate to them.

>>33554 You might be able to do anything. There are plenty of science fiction explanations for telekinesis that just involve things like energy/particle fields that we haven't learned to detect or manipulate yet. It makes just as much sense as a warp drive in Star Trek, because it's all bullshit anyway. Yes, some sci-fi is "harder" than others, but it's all bullshit on the level you're complaining about. Again, it's about how far down the suspension of disbelief is. Would you be happier with the original explanation that Kryptonians were just plain more evolved, and there was no autism about sunlight or telekinesis to explain their powers? It's less masked in pseudoscience, but in a way, simplicity can make it more believable just because it doesn't ask you to think about it very much.

The thing I've always loved about Superman is the same thing I've always loved about Captain America: they never give up, they stand up for the defenseless, and their values and morals are from a better time. Superman has been depowered many times, but he's never stopped doing what was right. When the writers decide to "deconstruct" him or nerf his powers, he somehow manages to overturn their bullshit and ends up as powerful as ever. He's a good egg.