Maybe she would still actually be popular if they didn't change her entirely from the character people actually liked, the character that was popular enough to get the suits' attention in the first place, into a completely different, practically opposite character that just happens to have the same name.

>>2860 Didn't that shit cartoon get a second season?

>>2867 It was ordered for 26 episodes than they split it into 2 seasons.

>>2872 Ah so it's the Voltron strategy.

>>2860 The comic had a good run, and the cartoon was okay. They have to make it consistent and have a good writer. They want her to be a hero, an antihero a villain. They should make their mind and just go with it.

>>2860 >but she seems to be having a really rough year Good, all but the mediocre comic were trash

>>2861 They saw how popular that Harley was among female/gay normalfags and tried to cash in on it, but the fad was too short lived.

>>2946 >tfw your (((propaganda))) comes home to roost on your son

>>3195 That guy's legit a pedophile. I think there's photos of him kissing his son on the lips.

>>2860 Why do everybody especially in mainstream media like Harley, she's meh, her outfit quite generic,

>>3205 Modern Harley is tumblr incarnate and basically female deadpool but somehow less funny.

Of all the characters they chose to push, why her? It always confused me

>>3228 The post above you covered the main points. Modern-Harley is tumblr incarnate. It also helps that she is a Batman character, and Batman is way more popular than any other DC property. And being a villain, or at least originally intended as a villain, they can have her get away with more stuff that the Trinity or other "hero" characters couldn't do without raising more eyebrows. Harley was supposed to be a villain, but always had a sympathetic side to her. Now they've used that sympathetic angle to cast her as an occasional hero (though they removed the aspects of her personality that actually make her sympathetic), but since she's still sort of a villain, they can have her do fucked up SJW shit, and SJWs can love it and say she's a hero for it, while everyone who recognizes it as being fucked up gets to hear apologists claim that it's supposed to be villainous anyway. They're trying to have their cake and eat it too, and use elements that used to exist in Harley's character to justify what would otherwise cause massive moral dissonance. Of course, to anyone who pays attention, it causes moral dissonance anyway, and that's part of the reason Harley isn't actually as popular as they want you to think. But then that's a major part of the reason SJW shit in general isn't as popular as they want you to think. Seeing villainous actions portrayed as if you're supposed to think they're good causes massive moral dissonance, and that's not going to make the audience like what's going on.

>>3229 Aren't there several series where the protagonist isn't actually the "hero" because they're just someone that everyone is glad about conveniently having on "their side", and gets away with do fucked-up shit because it just looks awesome?

>>3231 Yeah but those generally don't have political pandering or lose popularity when they be one political pandering. Even then, those of course have a significant amount of people who dislike that kind of media.

>>3231 Of course. There are plenty of great stories about villain protagonists, including anti-villains, and anti-heroes who stray pretty far into grey morality and make it hard to call them a "hero." Unfortunately, SJWs aren't good enough writers, or good enough people, to be able to write stories like that. You can't exactly do a story about grey morality, or exploring complex moral questions, or even just simple villain protagonists, when you're a person who thinks you're always right, and that the morality of an action is based on the genitals and melanin concentration of the person doing the action.

>>2861 The problem with Harley, i'd imagine is that peabrains would accuse her of only having one arc, her relationship with the Joker. The same person who throws the accusation that Mr. Freeze has nothing going for him but "Muh wife :(" So DC attempted to kill a fly with a sledgehammer and we get Clownpool the Feminist icon.

>>3270 > i'd imagine is that peabrains would accuse her of only having one arc, her relationship with the Joker. They are correct.

>>3270 Both those assertions are correct. Mister Freeze without his wife is just a boring generic crook. Harley being anything but Joker's minion has failed every single time.

>>3282 Could I just admit that I've always found the...worship given to the BTAS version of Mr. Freeze to be a little overrated? Especially since, now, EVERY villain has to have some "tragic backstory" explaining and justifying their motives. One or two guys it does make sense, but having the entire rogues gallery being a group of pitiful people just makes everything lose it's fun and purpose. I'm not sure if I'm suppose to feel bad that they're getting what they deserve as a result of their actions, or if I'm suppose to go rioting in the streets because it was the "world's fault" that they became a bad person. Especially when, using this particular case as an example, you have an emotionally traumatized corporate billion, throwing on a pointy eared mask every night, flying around a city that hasn't escaped the 1930's, and seeks justice by beating up the mentally ill and throwing custom-made razors at thugs. Given the changes made to the Batman formula, you'd almost expect them to do something smart about the fact that Bruce is just as crazy as the people he puts away, and ends up encountering the moral dilemmas of if his actions as Batman are really the best way to help the city rather than trying to use some of the money he has to actually solve some of the problems in a way that doesn't involved in everyone (Including himself) suffering from broken bones in a dozen different areas. You know, like how Batman & Robin concluded? But, nope, they never do that. They just make Batman the all-around "hero" while the villains are locked to in the most escapeable prison in the world. And, all that "sympathetic" story writing is just the writers way to pull at people's heartstrings while being able to turn out shlock because normalfags love that shit.

>>3270 >>3271 That's the same as Batman has nothing except "muh parents." You can tell plenty of stories about the character, but those key elements being held as a part of their personalities makes them much more interesting, not to mention helps actually keep them as being the same character. Especially with Harley Quinn, since she was actually invented as Joker's minion. It's not like Mr. Freeze where his wife was introduced like 40 years after the character first appeared, or even Batman, where his origin came at least a few months after his first appearance. Harley is Joker's henchman, and trying to remove that is just removing her entirely from what the original character was. Might as well just make a new character at that point. But then they wouldn't be able to market it as the character that people actually liked. Of course, the Harley we have now is not at all the character people actually liked, and that's why her material bombs. You can only tell people it is that same character for so long, but people who actually care will only get fooled a maximum of one time, and people who don't care... well they don't care anyway. They're not actually going to show up to your movie or buy your product, and WB should learn this by now, since they've made that mistake multiple times in big budget movies, and dozens of times in cartoons and comics. >>3285 >you'd almost expect them to do something smart about the fact that Bruce is just as crazy as the people he puts away, and ends up encountering the moral dilemmas of if his actions as Batman are really the best way to help the city rather than trying to use some of the money he has to actually solve some of the problems in a way that doesn't involved in everyone (Including himself) suffering from broken bones in a dozen different areas. There are tons of comics that do this. It's been a very big part of Batman comics for like thirty years. Of course they always conclude in a way that allows Bruce Wayne to continue being Batman, or to retire but then come back later, but there are tons of stories that have tackled this issue. Many of them very good. >I'm not sure if I'm suppose to feel bad that they're getting what they deserve as a result of their actions, or if I'm suppose to go rioting in the streets because it was the "world's fault" that they became a bad person. Usually what ends up happening is that Batman asserts that bad things happen to everyone, like sometimes children see their parents get shot, but that everyone has the personal responsibility to not turn into a supervillain over it. If anything, Batman proves that even if you are totally fucked up, you can use your trauma to motivate you toward good deeds rather than bad ones. Of course other stories tackle this and come up with other answers as well. Some argue that Batman isn't crazy, despite the furry costume, penchant for violence, and taste for the theatrical. Some argue he is, but he uses it for good. I mean even The Dark Knight does this to a degree, and I assume every casual in the world has seen that.

>>3285 >you'd almost expect them to do something smart This is big two comics we're talking about. We both know they can't & won't do anything clever or definitive. It's all just bait to keep readers buying floppies despite none of the stories ever mattering due to lack of permanence & consistency. > villains are locked to in the most escapeable prison in the world Arkham's an ASYLUM. Yes it's still ridiculous that it's for the criminally insane yet no one there is good at at least keeping the damn criminals locked up. That's just shitty comics for you.

>>3294 There are also a great deal of stories dealing with why Arkham, and Gotham as a whole, is so bad at dealing with the supervillains. It's even a big part of the video games that all the casuals have been into for over a decade now, so I'm surprised you're not aware of it.

>>3295 Hugo Strange and the mob?

>>3295 I am aware. You seem to misunderstand the grievances people have. Speaking just on DC, even though Marvel has this problem too, you can't use "well this version says this" to explain the logic in comics. There's the main line of comics then there's the multiverse of different out of what passes for continuity titles. An out of continuity title doesn't excuse the poor writing of the mainline titles. Does this make sense to you?

>>3297 not the guy you are replying too, but I believe he's saying that in continuity a reason similar to the arkham asylum games is given in multiple stories. The arkham asylum example was just given to imply that even normalfags should be aware of it generally.

>>3298 Perhaps he was. Say that is the case, there's a problem with mainline explanations too. Being that anything can be changed as soon as a writer changes & history is constantly altered creating new universes that change up how things work constantly.

>>3295 >big part of the video games It is? I purged my memories of the writing after Knight.

>>3299 eh That's true, but I recall arkham asylum being shit was one of the things that largely remained un-retconned once it was introduced, like gotham being a pretty shitty place to live.

>>3296 That's part of it. Also the bit about Amadeus Arkham being some sort of nutcase, and there's a degree of supernatural stuff about Gotham being haunted or something as well. There are lots of different explanations that all go together. >>3299 >Being that anything can be changed as soon as a writer changes Theoretically that's the case with any work of fiction. It doesn't even require the writer to actually change. It could just be the one writer changing his mind. That doesn't matter since it is still canon, and has been referenced heavily for at least 30 years as far as I know. Even if some new retcon came along and said all those older explanations were actually incorrect all along, there are still tons of stories that treat them as true, and those stories are the ones that continue to influence the public consciousness, so much so that they've been used in a hit video game series, some of the most successful movies ever made, multiple cartoons, and a live action tv show. And even if it was retconned in the comics, which would be highly unlikely with a popular element like this, it would also likely be changed back either once another writer got the chance (which is very frequently since there are so many Batman comics every month) or simply once the writer "reveals" that the idea just a ruse by some villain or something all along. Popular elements tend to stick around, or even be incorporated if they're from another continuity originally. That's why the comics adapted Harley Quinn, and the Mr. Freeze origin, and have continually tried to adapt Batman Beyond, even though it never quite works. By the same token, that's why popular elements that have been removed over the years, like say Bat-Mite, have been re-introduced, with "reveals" and "remembering" that they were canon all along. Honestly Batman is a bad example for this since his corner of the DCU isn't really affected by major retcons or universe altering events very much. Batman: Year One is his Post-Crisis origin, but it doesn't really change much from his original origin from 45 years earlier, it just expands on it. Batman was practically unaffected by Flashpoint, which caused major problems actually, with things like Robin Rises making it a plot point that the Justice League is scared of Darkseid because he hasn't been seen except for the one time the Justice League fought him in their origin, but also the same story flashes back to Batman fighting Darkseid in Final Crisis. Of course later they "reveal" that history being fucked is an actual plot point caused by Doctor Manhattan, so that "fixes" that too. The point is that they don't like to change Batman because they don't like to change popular elements, and Batman is always very popular. >& history is constantly altered creating new universes that change up how things work constantly. Not quite. The current DCU is the same universe that's almost always been used since January 1945. Technically earlier stories were retconned to be a different universe (Earth-Two), but the broad strokes of stories for characters that existed in both Earth-One and Earth-Two remained canon anyway. And then later Earth-One and Earth-Two merged so both were canon in the main universe anyway. Earth-One became New Earth which became Earth-0 which became Prime-Earth. They just changed the name to New Earth when other universes got merged into it, and then to Earth-0 when other universes were copied from it (because they'd need a new name to differentiate it from the others. Don't know why they didn't go with Earth-1 though. Earth-1 would later be revealed to be a different, unimportant failed comics line of an Earth). Also they changed the name to Prime-Earth when two other timelines got merged into it with Flashpoint, but Prime-Earth is a fucking stupid name, and technically it's still also officially called Earth-0 by The Monitors, but it is useful to have a different name for the different eras. They didn't change the name after Zero Hour changed history, and that's a bit of a pain, honestly. >>3300 You played all the way to the fourth one, then that one made you retroactively hate the other games? But you obviously liked them since you played up to the fourth one.

>>3303 There's a huge difference between a writer having one plan then changing his mind later & a new writer on a project just completely paving over or ignoring everything the previous writer did. >DCU isn't really affected by major retcons or universe altering events very much You must not be paying attention to Post Flashpoint DC. There's a universe altering major event every other month now. >well achtually it's way more complicated & complex I hate this. I hate comic books with a burning passion burning in my soul.

>>3305 >There's a huge difference between a writer having one plan then changing his mind later & a new writer on a project just completely paving over or ignoring everything the previous writer did. The latter doesn't really happen, though. Sometimes they try to retcon things, or ignore things that can be ignored (because not all elements need to be relevant in every story), but even this is overstated. >You must not be paying attention to Post Flashpoint DC. There's a universe altering major event every other month now. I didn't say the DCU wasn't affected by stuff like that, I said Batman's corner of the DCU wasn't affected by stuff like that very much. Batman in particular doesn't get changed very much because he's popular and they want to keep popular elements. Since he's more popular, more of his elements are popular. Green Lantern was also largely unaffected by Flashpoint since he was very popular at the time. Even after the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Green Lantern was only affected in a few minor ways (redoing Hal's origin to have Sinestro train him, for example). Superman and Wonder Woman are better examples for characters who are changed a lot, but even then, it's less than casuals think. A lot of times they write things in ways that would let newbies think it's a reboot even though it's not. Like Man of Steel was a redo of Superman's origin, and then lead into a new series that continued plot points from the Man of Steel miniseries. But there are huge time gaps in that miniseries, and the implication is that all the Pre-Crisis stuff still happened in those time gaps, except for the things that are contradicted by Post-Crisis things. >I hate this. I hate comic books with a burning passion burning in my soul. That's the best part.

>>3308 Hating this mess is the best part of this mess?

>>3309 >Hating this mess is the best part of this mess? It makes it more fun for me, yes. But no, obviously I meant that the absurd confusion and complexity is fun.

>>3310 I disagree. It would be fun if things made sense & didn't require your encyclopedia worth of posts to make sense of it.

>>3303 >You played all the way to the fourth one, then that one made you retroactively hate the other games I didn't retroactively hate the games but after Knight's story I could not give a shit in replaying the games while paying attention.

>>3312 But they do make sense, if you have that encyclopedia to make sense of it. It fulfills half of your criteria. Though I understand why someone wouldn't want to bother reading all the shit required to understand it. Even before SJWs deliberately killed the industry, this shit was already the industry digging its own grave. >>3313 I only played each one once, but given that literally the entire series is about Arkham Asylum and goes pretty hard into this stuff, I didn't have to replay it to remember these elements.

>>3315 Well at least you understand.

>>2861 Well said, whatever the nu quinn is it's not harley quinn.

>>3294 >This is big two comics we're talking about. We both know they can't & won't do anything clever or definitive. And this is why if you grew up with bande dessin comics and British comics, you wouldn't have that problem to begin with.

Seems like a good place to put the The Suicide Squad watch thread. Weasel drowns, Blackguard gets his face blown off after he sold out the squad to Corto Maltese troops, Boomerang gets hit with shrapnel then shredded by a helicopter, Javelin gets shot, Mongal dies burning in agony, TDK gets shot in the arms, & Savant gets his head blown up for deserting the mission. At least they earned their rating.

Idris Elba/Bloodsport is literally just here because they couldn't get Will Smith back.

Someone liked DmC because they literally just say "Fuck you" over & over.

That's Calender Man I guess.

Is this uh... is this a thing Polka Dot Man does?

That's a penis. Should let you know I've not laughed once. Thankfully Harley has been kept to a minimum.

They don't even save Starro to the very end. Just shows up in archival footage.

Someone call Nintendo so they can sue Warner Bros. I'm serious. Do it.

I get it. It's not making me laugh. But I get it.

Movie's just too dull to even finish. At least I had something to talk about with Justice League, BvS, & Man of Steel. This just sucks. It's joyless. Harley's still just a whoring Mary Sue that can't do a New Jersey/New York accent to save her life.

>>16409 >This just sucks. It's joyless. Care to write a much more detailed review?

>>16412 None of the jokes land. I said through over an hour of this 2 hour movie. Didn't get a chuckle. They at least kind of gave a shit about giving characters accurate costumes. Except for Harley but that's already obvious. Action is okay. I guess. I will compliment the gore. For a movie about a black ops team where they're on suicide missions, it makes sense to have gore to show how real the situation is. But again the choices for the teams make no sense. This team is just there to die as a distraction while Team B heads in from the back. So why have Flagg on the team that's expendable? If Waller was as cold as the movie keeps trying to drive home then why didn't she just kill Harley when she was captured? That's all I got. It's just boring. I shouldn't be bored watching bad guys shooting & killing other bad guys. It's a poor man's Deadpool. Deadpool isn't even that great either.

>>16399 All I can think of is Sleepaway Camp, and that's not a good thing. Because I know its a far better movie than this.

>>3288 I find it odd that Harley never got some sort of reinvention as a new villain or anti-hero type completely divorced from the Joker with how often other characters have had that treatment in cape comics. At least then, the change in character could be more easily justified. Instead, they basically replaced her with a worse version of herself in every way and insist that she's the real McCoy.

A thought occurred to me. There's a part where Harley kills one of the bad guys after he mentions killing kids. She says it's a 'red flag' & berates him over it. But in this universe... she helped Joker kill Robin.

>>3270 You're very correct, I have both opinions. I suppose I'm just not enough of a sophisticated connoisseur to appreciate the emotional nuance of having every story you're ever in revolve around the same plot point. You could say the same is true of many of Batman's rogues, but at least with other Batman villains they generally don't pretend that there's a lot of emotional depth to their motivations. Other than maybe Ra's al Ghul, all Batman villains can have their motivations summed up in a sentence of twenty-five words or less without omitting major details or being reductio ad absurdum. "My boyfriend is crazy so he made me crazy and he's abusive but I love him" would definitely be Harley Quinn's sentence and "My wife is sick and needs a cure but I can't make it without resources I don't have" would be Mr. Freeze's.

I hate her Suicide Squad design and I hate that they keep pushing it.

>>16434 Whores & their prostitots love it.

>>16422 >reinvention as a new villain or anti-hero type completely divorced from the Joker That's supposedly where they are trying to go with all of this. As a matter of fact, it's the whole reason behind the Thelma and Louise romance thing with Ivy. Just read the first 10 issues of the 2014 run of Harley Quinn.

>>16495 Yet it doesn't stick because Harley is only good as an abused minion. Lesbian baiting doesn't work when neither characters have any chemistry. Ivy shouldn't even care about people to begin with.

I watched the new Suicide Squad. So many jokes, constantly. I hate this trend where nothing is taken seriously because no one making the film takes the characters seriously.

>>16516 If you throw out so many jokes at one time at least one or two might hit through sheer volume.

>>16517 I remember chuckling once, near the beginning of the film. That's it. After that the constant attempts at humor and constant, abrupt halting of serious moments with dumb jokes just started pissing me off. And it's incredibly obvious; you can absolutely see it coming every time. The only good character dies in exactly the same way as many of the jokes are set up. Serious moment > abrupt joke/levity. It pisses me off the more I think about it.

>>16413 Don't forget Harley Quinn's irrelevant side plot. >HQ is captured >the dictator falls in love with her >they have a short romance >HQ kills him after she realizes that he is a dictator with a weapon of mass destruction that was tested on kids >She is taken prisoner and lightly cattle prodded >She easily breaks free >HQ defeats a palace full of guards with only a revolver and a thrown javelin. >She rejoins the rest of the team who have been doing things relevant to the main story This subplot was clearly added to placate Margot Robbie's ego and because Harley Quinn is a popular character DC wants to market. It and the original dictator could have been easily cut out. Movie would miss anything important, and it would be less meandering instead.

>>16551 >Harley Quinn is a popular character DC wants to market. Is she really though? She was from the animated series till the early 2000s but she's never had a massive normie following. Well aside from washed up mothers trying to pretend they're still young wanting to dress as the Suicide Squad version of her.

>Starro Robot Chicken did this 5 years ago. That's how late they are.

>>16552 >normie The word is normalfag if you had lurked for even a week you would have known this you colossal newfag.

>>16552 She is popular enough for DC to put her in everything they can, and she was popular with normalfags since Batman Arkham games and then even more so after the first Suicide Squad film. DC saw an opportunity to turn Harley Quinn into their version of Deadpool. She got multiple comic book series, was front and center of marketing for both Suicide Squad films, got her own film (that flopped because it was shit and had a dumb title), animated series, animated long feature film, and is prominently featured in every DC related video game.

>>16568 A constant push doesn't always mean popularity. Especially in comics. Captain Marvel, Kamala Khan, Squirrel Girl, & America Chavez aren't popular. They keep getting pushed. Harley is no different. DC wanted to revamp her as her own solo girl power character because it was the woke thing to do. Not because there was reader demand.

>>16500 They only force shipped on account of the Harley & Ivy episode of BATAS and 2001 comic. If it hadn't been for those, Harley would still be Joker's lovable, stooge. >>16552 What was done for Harley can easily be done for Mercy Graves or even Baby Doll's assistant Merriam. >>16568 >DC saw an opportunity to turn Harley Quinn into their version of Deadpool. People say that and I have yet to see it. DC can make Livewire into the new Harley, if they shoved her as much. But an answer to Marvel's merc-with-a-mouth? No. Tankgirl, kind of.

>>16572 And it would work about as well. Lackey minions should remain lackey minions.

Thankfully The Suicide Squad has flopped at the box office hard. I don't think even HBO Max streaming will return any profits. How many people seriously even use it compared to Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon? Hell they didn't even make their marketing budget back.

>>16621 >How many people seriously even use it compared to Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon? My family is getting it for free as a phone plan. I've mostly been using it to watch movies and cartoons that are over 30 years old, meanwhile the rest of the family has reverted back to watching the DVDs we have of films and TV shows. It's that barren.

>>16621 I use it a fair amount but like >>16626 said it's kinda barren aside from niche stuff and some older favorite movies of mine, otherwise Netflix and Hulu dominate my watching. Putting day 1 release theatre shit onto their site was a massive blunder on their part, most every theatre release they had on there so far was utter shit except the new Mortal Kombat movie(and the animated Scorpian movie,) which was fucking great. Aside from those I can't really think of anything memorable they've stuck on there aside from older horror and action movies which any fan of said movies would already have on DVD/VHS/Blu-ray already at this point. It's not a total waste of a streaming service, but it's damn close.

>>16627 >utter shit except the new Mortal Kombat movie Anon that movie sucked hard. At least that Scorpion movie at least tried to actually adapt the original game's story. The live action movie isn't even a Mortal Kombat movie. There's no tournament. It's the kind of movie that existed as a script no one wanted so they made it into MK very loosely on the condition the director could have his OC.

>>16631 Its technically a prequel with a self insert OC as the main protagonist.

>>16633 It's not. Because it ends with a lead in to Shao Kahn ready to invade Earth. Not to mention it completely fucks the lore of Scorpion & Sub Zero. There was also no need for anyone to do anything. Because, like I said, there's no tournament yet. The plot happens because Shang Tsung wants to cheat by killing the competition. The only reason Raiden can't just win the tournament himself is because he's not allowed to interfere. But there is no tournament yet! He should have free rein to kick ass!

>>16635 >But there is no tournament yet! >Because it ends with a lead in to Shao Kahn ready to invade Earth. That's what a prequel is.

>>16636 Again it's not a prequel because it's trying to do the first game's story just like the Scorpion movie did. It's just a shitty adaptation that gets it all wrong.

>>16631 It's not as if they couldn't have analyzed the 1995 film for its best and worse attributes. >There's no tournament. And they thought that would fly? Then again, these people rarely dive into the lore of what they try to make a movie and/or animated adaption of.

>>16639 And that's the problem that ties back to Harley Quinn too. These fucking companies & people just don't give a shit. They don't respect what actually came before. They don't want to adapt. They want to make fanfiction completely detached from the legacy of writing actual creators put the work into.

I used to like her a lot, but she is just Joker' sidekick with great character design and basically that's why everyone liked her in the first place. >>3303 >have continually tried to adapt Batman Beyond, even though it never quite works That's because those comics are made by talentless hacks who never watched the entire cartoon series and also BB is cursed franchise. >>16413 >Waller Is there version of her that doesn't suck? Or she doomed to be shitty character as she is boring glowniggeress instead of fun supervillain. >>3205 >her outfit quite generic You mean her original outfit?! Because that, the Royal Flush gang (from Batman Beyond) and BB Batsuit are easily some, if not the best designs by Bruce Timm, they're beautifully simple and sleek and their color scheme is just prefect. >>16434 >>16435 The slutty street wear makes it easy for merch clothing and allow lazy filthy casualfags to cosplay. If they're going to stray away from the original simple costume, they should at least keep it true to the Jester theme, I'd love to see elements such as upper puffy sleeves, puffy short pants, ribbons, more lace, more pompons or bells (pics related). >>16572 >>16576 >Harley would still be Joker's lovable, stooge >Lackey minions should remain lackey minions When I watched JL and Joker slapped Harley Quinn so hard she reeled, it really hit me hard pun intended how she is nothing more and nothing less than Joker' (abused) sidekick. >>16647 They just want to use an existing franchise because it easier and cheaper than coming up with something new and to hell with it being "outdated" or having to go through previous/original iteration/s.