>your console is failing >pivot to a concept that already failed a decade ago when Valve tried it Microsoft really have no idea what the hell is going on do they

>>972649 >>your console is failing >>pivot to a concept that already failed a decade ago when Valve tried it Microsoft really have no idea what the hell is going on do they it's amazing how hard suits are fighting to not admit moving away from disk was a mistake.

>>972640 It doesn't matter what they do with the next console if the game making side of things is still mismanaged into oblivion.

>>972653 Hello newfriend

AAA is imploding and I can't stop laughing

>But a pre-built Windows machine licensed out to third-parties Remember 3do?

>>972658 >Remember 3do? Yes it gave us gex that's more than the ps5 ever did for us.

>>972642 >>972649 Alienware $3000 xbox machine when??

How does MS expect to make any money off this short of being a third party on their own system? Valve's method of profit for Steam Deck is obvious: They own the biggest PC games store, getting a cut of every game sold, that's on the deck by default and are the only maker of the hardware so they make their money off that too. A Windows Box on the other hand, either has to be so locked down as to be pointless, or everyone will buy games from literally anywhere else. The Microsoft Store is known to be such crap everyone says to avoid it thanks to all the DRM (most mods are impossible on MS Store versions). All MS gets is the not that much Windows key price. Plus how is this going to handle different CPU and GPU processors? Is it just going to just be saying "Include at least this Intel and at least this Nvidia with this much RAM and it will run all WinBox 1 games fine" or are there going to be two CPU recs and three GPU recs?

Just make Xbox a goymer PC brand like Razer and Alienware and include a "toaster with LEDs" low-end model for the dudebros who only play FIFA and CoD and a "my parents paid all of this" top-end model for the retards who want maxxx graphixxx. MS already sells PCs (Surface) and the first and latest Xbox have been PCs with crippled OS.

>>972667 >so locked down as to be pointless Yeah, expect mandatory always online for all software run on it, as well as tying the hardware to your microsoft account so that if you try to homebrew or pirate anything your entire account is wiped.

>>972673 >consoles completing their slow transformation into pre-built PCs >consolefags start praising the benefits and freedom of PC gaming all of a sudden

>>972673 The first Xbox was based on the PowerMac G5, which Microsoft bought hundreds of for development and testing. I know someone supposedly found a beige box developer kit Xbox at one point, but if people really wanted to find the earliest dev hardware, they should've been looking at discarded Apple towers instead.

>>972642 >steam machines <but with Windows.

Consoles are sold at a loss, how the fuck would this work out for Microsoft if its just a prebuilt PC? The competitive advantage of a console is the lower entry cost.

>>972714 You mean the Xbox 360? The original Xbox came around the time of the PowerMac G4 and uses an x86 CPU unlike the Macs which used PowerPC. The Xbox 360 uses PowerPC however.

>>972731 Microsoft sells all the spyware data to Mossad

>>972653 It is not about admitting, but forcing control over everything or die trying. They literally prefer to go bankrupt than to let customers control the product. Which is good. Let them die. Any company that wants to take control away from the customer deserves to die.

>>972752 Microsoft used to have American MIC money to bankroll this but now that israel is in danger and Microsoft's MilitaryVR division failed to deliver a coherent product a lot of those MIC accounts have been drained.

>>972733 Oh! Well, look at that. Don't know how I got those confused. You're right; thanks.

>>972667 >A Windows Box on the other hand, either has to be so locked down as to be pointless, or everyone will buy games from literally anywhere else. The Microsoft Store is known to be such crap everyone says to avoid it thanks to all the DRM (most mods are impossible on MS Store versions). All MS gets is the not that much Windows key price. They will be gamepass machines. Most normalfags I know use gamepass. Microsoft's new scheme will try to lock people to use gamepass, and become THE subscription service of gaming. Locking it down is the feature. No different than how apple locks people down, and forces them to use their stores and services.

>>972756 >runs Windows11s TV edition

>>972756 >They will be gamepass machines. Most normalfags I know use gamepass Gamepass is what has M$ down the drain already, it's not sustainable on the gamedev / publishers end.

>>972761 Phil Spencer says it's profitable and generates billions of dollars.

>>972786 Philis a great liar, it's why he's the head of the company!

>>972789 They were the villain from day one

>>972793 even more broadly speaking Microsoft was founded in evil. They didn't even have a product, they just lied their way into contracts and build shoddy software to fulfill it afterwards.

>>972797 <The red ring of death was the first major red flag with Xbox lmao >Not the paid online >Not the paid MapPacks/DLC >Bot the push for making consoles more like PCs >Not paying for PC devs to develop for their console and ignore the PC version >Not being fucking Microsoft behind No, the RROD was the real issue!

>>972799 >The PS5 is a better, less immoral purchase Both are evil.

>>972799 >it's less immoral to buy from a company that censors all political thought outside of what trotsky wanted Off yourself.

>>972801 >>972805 >>972809 You're replying to the troll who made the Minecraft threads about how indies are killing gaming He just spams shitty bait to fish for (You)s

>>972815 Ah.

>>972819 >Ideas are a finite resource, and once exhaused - no new ideas can be produced. What the fuck are you on about? People have been saying there's nothing new under the sun since literally before Jesus (Ecclesiastes) and yet it's indie games fault for the creativity well running dry for real this time?

>>972828 You're responding to somebody that has been shilling in favor of the PS5 in this very thread, he's beyond retarded.

>>972649 >failed a decade ago when Valve tried it It failed because that was before SteamPlay so almost no games were compatible. Most do now, look at the Deck.

I just want them to announce this fucking leaked controller already, at least I hope this leak was real. I'v already disassembled and repaired the bumpers on controllers twice each already, and those screws are stripped. I'm not gonna be able to open them again next time they break. It would be nice to have an upgrade that isn't an Elite controller because I don't want all that extra shit, I just want a Controller that works.

>>972834 Greedy console makers still refuse to use hall effect analog sticks, which would vastly improve durability and precision. Good thing various chinese companies sell them now.

>>972830 Kill yourself

>>972834 >200 dollars >Thumbstick starts drifting in a month No thanks!

>>972714 I try not to think about it very often.

>>972895 kill all predditors

>>972895 >Give me the plant

I really wonder how Xbox's shooters online would react to this news? A lot of them have turned over the last few months, the recent shutdowns have almost entirely killed its hype. If the next Xbox really are a bunch of PCs with "Xbox" slapped on the side I think they'd lose their fanbase entirely, even if they sold better.

>>972877 It seems crappy thumbsticks can be an issue with the Elite controls, depending on your luck of the draw for the one you get. I remember there being people posting videos about faulty Elite controllers for a time, but from my experience, the standard Xbox controllers have had constant build quality for the most part. I never encountered Thumbstick drift in my years of using the Xbone, or Series controller. The real issue for them is the Bumpers, after enough use the plastic piece that actually clicks the button will eventually break with enough use, and it'll require a replacement or some superglue to give it some longer use time. The is also the issue of the pads for the triggers on the inside of the controller, there are little bits of sponge/rubber that dampen the noise from the triggers when they are pulled back all the way and make contact with the shell of the controller. Those little bits will eventually have the glue for them ware out, and them moving out of place can eventually cause the Trigger to stick. If those two issues can be ironed out in the next model of Xbox Controller then they'd be good to go, and if at the very least it's like how that "leaked picture" says and they make the process of repair and disassembly easier, then that would at least be preferable.

>>972834 >I'v already disassembled and repaired the bumpers on controllers twice each already I've had a sexbox 1 controller from way the fuck back and never had to replace the bumpers. Only issue with it was the control stick drifting a bit. Did I get lucky or something?

>>972918 It certainly depends on what games you are playing. In my case, i'v always played a ton of Devil May Cry, so the right bumper is used for Lock on constantly. I'm not at all surprised that the small piece of plastic responsible for clicking the bumper wares out and breaks after some years of usage.

>>972640 >>The next gen Xbox will allegedly not be a single console but a Windows-based device that other manufacturers can make their own versions of. Isn't that originally what the Xbox was "suppose" to be? >>972667 >All MS gets is the not that much Windows key price. Anon, M$ is a SOFTWARE company at the end of the day. Their money comes from selling SOFTWARE. >>972801 >>Not the paid online Sega did it before with the Dreamcast and Heat.net. >>Not the paid MapPacks/DLC Nintendo has been doing that since the Famicom Disk System. >Bot the push for making consoles more like PCs Amiga did it with the CD32, NEC did it prior with the PC-Engine/TruboGrafx, and Atari had been doing it since '79. >Not paying for PC devs to develop for their console and ignore the PC version Nintendo did that during the NES >>972812 >Until Nintendo actually releases a console with games like Stellar Blade on it Nier Automata is on the Switch. >or MGS1-5 on it Which you can currently do on a PS3. >or all the actual good Sony games You mean Bloodborne and Gravity Rush 2. >>972830 >Where do you think games go from here? Going back to what worked during the sixth gen and early seventh and improving upon THAT. >The best selling ones are open world slop Because those are the only games heavily marketed, and the only reason why they're so heavily marketed is because the company wasted so much money making those games in the first place. The open world games of today are not even bigger or better than those from the seventh gen. Fuel still has the record for the biggest playable full 3D open world, and many open-world games today still lack the complex physics of something like Red Faction Guerilla and Mercenaries.

>>972895 >Wake up >Enter thread looking for some discussions about the topic <This pops up Thanks, fuck you too

>>972927 >Isn't that originally what the Xbox was "suppose" to be? More or less, the part of the Xbox that was meant to appeal to developers was the fact that it's hardware was so similar to a PC. So if they were primarily PC developers, they would have already had their footing when making a game on an Xbox. The Xbox was supposed to simplify the idea of putting PC quality games in the hands of the consumer. The very fact the Series S exists is the kind of mentally retarded thinking that's the opposite of what the OG Xbox was supposed to represent, since that just doubles the work load of the Developers since they essentially need to port the game to Xbox Twice. It really is sad that Microsoft has needlessly fucked up the Xbox brand so much, I still have a lot of love for the Original Xbox, They really never recovered from that Xbox One reveal where they tried to make it online only, all the good will they built up vanished in an instant.

>>972927 >Comparing niche shit to popularization I guess Arcades created microtransactions too you dumb fucking big.

>>972933 >The very fact the Series S exists is the kind of mentally retarded thinking that's the opposite of what the OG Xbox was supposed to represent <Expecting rational thinking from the guy who placed the entire brand on being the Netflix of gaming

>>972756 Of course people use game pass, because it's free games. You know what that doesn't do? Make fucking money. Game pass is a money pit and the subs DO NOT make up for it. It was fine when Xbox was a rounding error in Microsoft's books and could basically do what they wanted. Then they ended up 70 billion in the whole buying a company and now the eye of Sauron is on them and they immediately started killing fucking everything. A "game pass machine" is not a win. It's a noose.

>>972933 >>972958 And yet the Series S is far and away the most successful thing Microsoft did this gen. It's almost as if most consumers buy consoles because they want to game cheaper. It's almost as if those gamers don't care about graphics. It's almost as if The Switch 2 is going to anally rape both Sony and Microsoft into oblivion. And no, before you sperg about it this isn't a "it's so great Nintendo is going to win" post. When one company dominates everyone tends to lose actually. This is a "oh many god Microsoft and Sony are so fucking stupid" post.

>>972964 Nintendo only got of it's ass because Valve lit a fire under it.

>>972964 To be fair, Xbox was already porting all of the games to PC by the time the Series X|S came out. So for the core demographic who brings people to these systems, there was no reason for them to buy an Xbox since everything on PC. The general rule of thumb is that you want to bring over your existing audience before attracting new ones. Nintendo was an exception because they saw a large demographic that wasn't being exploited and took the shot, and even then when it came time for their next system Apple took their lunch money and beat them into the dirt.

>>972946 >I guess Arcades created microtransactions I wouldn't say they "created" microtransactions, but you were paying almost a dollar for a handful of lives or a few minutes of time. The games were designed to be infuriatingly tough specifically so that you wouldn't beat them - but could compete for the local high-score. Especially if the establishment owner was feeling particularly Jewish and fiddled with the dip switches to set the games to hard mode. Even in today's microtransaction and monetization live service wasteland, a game where you have to purchase continues would be unheard of. Of course EA was all onboard with bringing that model back, and it went over even worse than the mystery meat disabled lesbian World War II commando which obliterated the Battlefield franchise.

>>972969 >almost a dollar When adjusted for inflation.

>>972969 >a game where you have to purchase continues would be unheard of I admit I haven't played this game, so take it with a grain of salt. From what I heard it is a free to play souls-like, where if you die, you either pay real money to revive the character on the spot, or restart from scratch and loose all your gear.

>>972972 It's been a long time since I played, but I don't recall ever spending a dime on it. Yeah, I think you could pay to get your character back after you died - but you could also just fight your way back to where you died at, and then kill (I think) your geared out character to get your stuff back. Or something like that. In any case, there's a fundamental difference between a game that sells a shortcut after being designed to be frustratingly hard, and game that's just an expensive flashing brick (or a digital crater on your drive) unless you regularly pay out like EA wanted. Shit, if you were REALLY good and lucky - you could beat an arcade title on a single credit, which is probably why EA chose to try to make you pay for reloads. Good luck getting that kill streak on a handful of shells and a stick of chewing gum.

>>972966 Plans for the Switch 2 were likely already being made before the Steam Deck came into existence. It was never much of a threat to Nintendo's market share. The Switch 2 might eat into the deck's prospects though. However, for the most part the Steam Deck will simply a companion piece to PC gamers.

>>972978 > It was never much of a threat to Nintendo's market share. It was to pretend it wasn't is being delusional, the deck put pressure on Nintendo and no amount of bold face denial will change that.

>>972978 >>972979 Didn't the deck sell a few million units compared to switch's 140 million?

>>972981 The Switch has also been out since 2017, but the deck selling selling a few million in 2 years is still pretty good. But the point is that the deck was definitely a factor in the Switch 2, now it's not the only factor.

>>972983 >The Switch has also been out since 2017 Exactly, it was more or less at the saturation point and the people at Nintendo all knew it. Sales were going to stop growing because the people who wanted a Switch had one for the most part. The couple million deck sales really didn't matter. Again, The Switch 2 was likely already well into development by the time the deck actually released.

>>972981 We don't know the exact numbers, but Valve has said "tens of millions" which implies it's more than what's led on.

>>972988 Wasnt Valve's main problem right now that they dont have enough supply for the demand? I know hte deck is being very sucesfull.

Googled and mathed omnia figures for deck and ir information and fiscal reports for switch, switch sells 10 times the deck for an average year, forecast is 8.25 times the deck for this fiscal year, over 33 times the deck since both were out

>>972988 No they said multiple millions

>>972981 About 0.80% of Steam users run the Deck's SteamOS. ~120 Million users are active every month. 0.80% of that isn't even 1 million. I doubt it's much higher than 3 million.

>>972972 Death Metal is what you pay for in Let it die, that and a 30 day Premium pass that gives you free use of the elavator, better daily rewards which include more death metals. Trust me while it's nice to have a few extra lives in your back pocket you absolutely can not pay to win in Let it Die. The game is grindy as fuck, and the grind is unavoidable. Beating the main game that's the first 40 floors isn't too unreasonable, but the game keeps going after you beat the main story, and the grind goes on and on and on. It's possible to eventually get to the end of the content, (The game is actually getting updated again tomorrow) but it'll take a long time to grind to get strong enough to stand enough of a chance to make it that far. If someone attempted to just pay their way to the end of all of Let it Die and expected to skip the grind they really wouldn't get too far, every time you die and use a continued, the amount of Death Metal you pay to revive is increased. So really using Revives is more of a sight to start thinking about getting the fuck outta dodge. You do get 1 free continue a day, so you're not automatic forced to use Death Metal every time you die. I only spent a bit of money on Let It Die because I enjoyed my time with it enough to decide that they deserved a bit of cash for that, If someone wants they can keep playing for free and make it to the end of all the content, premium stuff only helps so much, as stated it's all about the grind, and you can't do much to skip that grind. I would recommend the base story Floor 1 - 40, that's a decently balanced game that isn't unreasonable to beat, it'll only start getting hard at floor 31-40. It took me like 3 weeks playing without spending a sent to beat floor 40. Everything after floor 40, that's grinding for grindings sake.

>>972927 >Anon, M$ is a SOFTWARE company at the end of the day. Their money comes from selling SOFTWARE. Not exactly. The days of selling shrinkwrapped software are over. Their big money maker now is cloud computing services. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/microsofts-revenue-by-product-line/

>>972640 I didn't expect them to do this for another generation, but it sounds like their heads are out of their ass. They know which way the wind is blowing and they're trying to get ahead of it instead of waiting to be forced into it. Smart. >>972649 >>972653 Valve failed because the pieces weren't in place. Steam Machines were pre-Proton, had a very minimal Linux OS, and the offerings from manufacturers were poor. Consoles simply no longer make sense, and neither does maintaining two different ecosystems. Moving to a Steam Machines model is inevitable. You need PCs to be dumbed-down enough, and a stripped-down version of Windows is basically perfect and it helps leverage their advantage of owning the biggest desktop OS. Game developers can target DirectX and get PC and Xbox releases from them both. They should have tried this 5 years ago. The main question is how Sony will respond. If they double-down on dedicated consoles, they're going to get fucked. They have no exclusives, MS bought a ton of IPs, and every port for their console will need to be built targeting their hardware. All while PC sales are eclipsing console sales. If you're a small developer, your choice is to make an Xbox game that also compiles for PC or to make a Sony game that will need a bunch of extra work to make compatible with Windows. It will push cash-strapped studios towards Windows. I'd actually like to see Valve revive Steam Machines. They learned many lessons from the first attempt and used them to build the SteamDeck, which is a good product and very successful. Sony's a little fucked because their competitor owns Windows, so they can't just "make a Windows PC" themselves. Their best bet is probably to poke Gabe and see if they can make the next PlayStation run SteamOS. Nobody what Sony does, they're going to need to swallow a bitter pill. If they do not accept this direction, they die. If they do not adapt quickly enough, they die. They have very few options to get out of it with a viable product and none of them involve "just make another console like it's business as usual".

>>972933 I think GFWL was the beginning of the end. Patient zero for Microsoft saying "let's move everything to a single ecosystem!" and merging XBOX with PC. >>973103 >I'd actually like to see Valve revive Steam Machines Doubt that's gonna happen. Most of the draw of the Deck was the portability factor and it basically being a buffed up Switch. Most people who got one were core PC gamers who already had gaming rigs and wanted to bring a similar experience with them outside. New steam machines would just be "really good prebuilts" which most PC gamers don't really care about, and they would have to be sold at quite a loss to attract non-PC gamers. And unless they invent some tardproof, modular way to upgrade computer hardware, you can you can only dumb down the entry barrier for PC gaming so much on the hardware side.

>>973414 >I think GFWL was the beginning of the end. Patient zero for Microsoft saying "let's move everything to a single ecosystem!" and merging XBOX with PC. The idea could have worked if the first implementation was actually how it is now, and you could have got your games playable on both Xbox 360 and PC with a single Purchase, but they waited far too long. Any Xbox fans from that time like myself when they moved to PC used Steam because it was objectively the best choice, but if my catalog of Xbox 360 games could have be inserted / have been downloaded to my PC and have been playable, then things could have been a whole different story. Heck, if they could get that Xbox emulation they have put so much work into on their consoles, and implement that into their PC services, that actually is quite the selling point. Suddenly they'll have a ton of games that you can't get anywhere else on PC, aside from XEMU/Xenia Emulation that isn't perfected yet. >And unless they invent some tardproof, modular way to upgrade computer hardware, you can you can only dumb down the entry barrier for PC gaming so much on the hardware side. I mean, they could if they really wanted to. This idea came to me just now thinking about how the Series has SSD Memory expansions, and the N64 had a ram expansion, GameCube had expansion slots. Why not just take that concept of inserting expansions, but instead make that every piece of the hardware is easily replaceable? Building a PC is already a matter of slotting things into the correct spots, just streamline that. Have it, so each piece of the hardware has a protective little cube around most of it, and those cubes can just be slotted into the correct spots, and when upgrade time comes you just replace the cubes with a more powerful cube, and even the mother board could be replaced just make that a long tray at the bottom you slide in first.

>>973422 >Why not just take that concept of inserting expansions, but instead make that every piece of the hardware is easily replaceable? ain't that the framework laptop's whole shtick?

>>973422 >Why not just take that concept of inserting expansions, but instead make that every piece of the hardware is easily replaceable? Because that idea can become far too complicated too fast. And building a PC is already simple enough as all you need to do is just read a manual on which parts connect where. >>973437 The hook there is that it's a laptop. Laptops are not released in a customiable fashion like desktop PCs are, so that's where it's niche comes in.

>>973414 >modular… upgrade >>973422 >expansions One word: bottlenecks. You'll never have the performance possible with SoC components by having to design BRAND NEW AND UNIQUE-TO-COMPONENT connector pins for each individual upgrade (and you'd have to double the price for each, too).

>>972658 >>972789 >They'll buy up as much of the market as they can and run those things into the ground. Good i have been waiting for a crash for years the more microsoft force consolidation the more complete the burn when the crash come's i just hope the suits stay away from the new growth so we never get back to as bad as things are now.

>>972655 >>972799 >>972822 >>972877 >>972844 >>972911 >>972966 >>972988 >>973455 Don't mind me, just checkin these dubs

>>972834 GameSir G-7, best 3rd party one I've found, good grip texture, buttons are nice and clicky, no faults on triggers or drift on the sticks in 2 years.

>>973103 >Valve failed because the pieces weren't in place. Steam Machines were pre-Proton, had a very minimal Linux OS, and the offerings from manufacturers were poor. A big thing people always forget is Valve never actually made any Steam Machines. They sort of half-heartedly put out the framework then promptly abandoned it. The Steam Deck feels like their first real attempt the (pseudo-)console market. >I'd actually like to see Valve revive Steam Machines. They learned many lessons from the first attempt and used them to build the SteamDeck, which is a good product and very successful. There have been rumblings for years now they're cooking up some kind of Steam console, what looks to be a photo of one leaked last year. There were also a lot of hardware and software specifications coming up but I think those turned out to be for the Steam Deck OLED.