>>1040479 Yes, for the reasons I described. I don't think the actual developers of the series ever thought of Sonic living in a furry world, as evidenced by not just every game since Sonic Adventure, but some earlier materials such as Sonic The Animation. I don't think Elise being a human is the strange part. Sonic having any romantic stuff going on with any character other than Amy is the weird part, but not even that weird, given that Mario saves a princess all the time, and Sonic is a blatant response to Mario. Plus there's the whole Princess Sally thing. But the Japanese don't have any fucking idea what a Princess Sally is.

>>1040563 >But the Japanese don't have any fucking idea what a Princess Sally is. There was Spinball, but that's not really saying much.

>>1040567 Spinball was made by Americans, at Sega Technical Institute.

>>1040569 And it was published in Japan and is considered canon as of Sonic Origins.

>>1040563 I want to impregnate Sally.

>>1040592 Sure, but Sally and the Freedom Fighters are such miniscule cameos in that game that I think even a lot of Americans don't realize they're in the game. It's not like Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, where it's super obvious that it's cartoon related. Hell, Sally doesn't even have her final cartoon design in the game. They seem to be using the early comic designs, going by Rotor, and the Archie comics weren't published in Japan. As far as they'd know, these were just a few other animals, no different than Flicky, who is also in that bonus round. Also, is the dog thing in pic related supposed to be Antoine? I can't even tell. >>1040595 Sally is close to worst girl. Or at least she would be if the Archie writers didn't go out of their way to make girls that were supposed to be bad on purpose, just to make Sally look better. Amy is best girl, or at least she was until Flynn and others decided she wasn't allowed to actually like Sonic anymore. I suppose Tekno does suck worse than Sally, but she sucks so bad she almost doesn't count. TOP SEVENTY-THREE HOTTEST FEMALE SONIC CHARACTERS >Amy >Cosmo >Cream >Bunnie >Tikal >Maria >Blaze >Marine >Sticks >Rouge >Shade >Wave >Nicole >Sage >Lumina >Surge >Flora >Buns >Rosie (Moebius) >Illumina >Trip >Sara >Hope >Vanilla >Honey >Carrotia >Tiara >Aleena (Tamers) >Madonna >Newsstand Lady >Burger Shop Girl >President's Secretary >Casinopolis Gambling-Addicted Mother >Those two women fighting over that one dude outside Twinkle Park >Pearly >Coral >Elise >Sally (Fleetway) >Sally (SatAM/Adventures/Archie) >Cassia >Clove

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>Conquering Storm >Iron Queen >Undina >Opal >Blade >Belle >Lien-Da >Aurora >Saffron >Mecha >E.V.E. >Jewel >Whisper >Tangle >Lanolin >Alicia (Moebius) >Alicia (Mobius) >Tekno >Julie-Su >Fiona (spy robot) >Mina >Fiona (honestly becomes an okay character once the story admits she's horrible) >Sonia >Aleena (DIC) >Mindy >Mandy >Bernie >Rosemary >Lara-Le >Lara-Su >Witchkart Admittedly much of my list is biased by hate I grew for the characters over time, as they continued being too important in the story and just became annoying, even if I liked them to begin with. But still, numbers one through twenty-eight are Hot Chick Heaven.

>>1040396 06's story falls apart when you think about it and its continuity errors and plot holes, like just about everything with Blaze, but that's partly to be expected when attempting to do a time travel story. I remember a good buddy of mine used to rip on Mephiles for being a creatively bankrupt design choice and wasn't too fond of the overly anime aspects of the series or any "Evil/Dark Sonic concepts" with Scourge and Archie's Metal Scourge being his most hated characters, he was also a big Eggman fanboy if that means anything. (I miss him)

>>1040693 I don't care about the "plot holes" enough for it to significantly impact my enjoyment of the story. They're basically nitpicking. I also think Mephiles is awesome, and I'm tired of pretending he's not. I also love Scourge and Metal Scourge. Evil Sonic can be done in a lame way, but it can also be done well. But Mephiles isn't even that. Neither is Metal Scourge. Mephiles' visual design is that he's Shadow's shadow, which is kind of cool. But really I suppose his visual design isn't the main reason people think he's cool. Scourge is Evil Sonic but self aware, and that's what makes him good. It's that he and the story both realize that he sucks. "Evil Sonic," as he was previously known, sucked, but Scourge was awesome. Metal Scourge is just a logical plot device that would follow. Also in my list above I forgot to mention Morain, Nephthys, and Thunderbolt. They'd be at the very bottom, of course. Well, maybe Morain would go above Lara-Su, but that's it. I'm probably still forgetting a few more female Sonic characters, but they'd all be very near to the bottom of the list as well. Except Metamorphia. I can't believe I forgot her. She's actually pretty cool. I'd put her just above Madonna.

>>1040699 It's his Yami Pharaoh voice in the English dub that really did favors for him-his new one just sounds less intimidating. His plan didn't make too much sense given his time travel ability unless he really likes dicking around like Eggman. And here I thought people have grown tired of self aware plots that know how ridiculous things are when it came to things like Scourge.

>>1040773 >And here I thought people have grown tired of self aware plots that know how ridiculous things are when it came to things like Scourge. Well Scourge is from 2006, so that's a factor. But no, I think the real factor is that it's not done comedically, it's played completely straight. It's not that the story admits Evil Sonic sucks so as to laugh at him and then keep sucking, it's that the story admits Evil Sonic sucked so as to give him depth and pathos and motivation. Most modern "self-aware" plots are just excuses to look down upon the source material because these sequels and adaptations are written by women that never liked the source material in the first place. It's not like The Flash TV show taking a comic that did its best to justify things with a relatively thick layer of realistic scientific principles and then just treating it all as magic and saying it's silly to justify doing whatever they want. So many modern sci-fi things do that now. Scourge wasn't that. They took a character with a paper thin characterization and motivation and, by acknowledging it, managed to make it deeper, rather than shallower. He went from "evil because he's from the evil universe" to "evil because he knows he is literally a knockoff of the real main character of reality, and is now essentially overcompensating because he basically hates reality itself and, deep down, hates himself." He's a blatant knockoff of Ultraman and the rest of the Crime Syndicate from DC Comics, but honestly they made him deeper than any version of Ultraman ever was. Maybe a few versions of Owlman give him a run for his money, but even then it's debatable. I kind of like Surge for the same reason. Trying to take the themes that made Scourge work, but make it legally distinct due to legal bullshit. That said, it fails partially because Scourge actually did suck for 12 years of stories, giving a real sense of weight to his position in the story. Surge doesn't have that. Now, she sort of has that on a meta level, because if Scourge is a shitty ripoff of Sonic, Surge is a shitty ripoff of Scourge, and that kind of works even better. But of course they can never acknowledge that in the story itself, so that will never really pay off unless somehow the whole Penders thing gets cleared up AND Sega suddenly becomes cool and lets them use Scourge again, complete with his full continuity. Then again, it's all moot, because Surge's real problem is that the writers very quickly started treating her as far too sympathetic. Scourge had a degree of sympathy that he could evoke in the reader, but never to the degree that we would stop thinking he was the bad guy. If that happened, he would stop being interesting. We already have several "evil Sonics who turned good," including Knuckles and Shadow, not to mention some more obscure ones like Turbo. Scourge was an anti-villain, but Surge has very quickly become more of an anti-hero. I still hope the story takes a turn and has her essentially fail to become good, giving in to her insecurities, making a tragic tale of a character that almost became good but just couldn't make it, but I strongly doubt they're going to go that route. Practically no female characters in any media can stay evil, and I find that doubly unlikely given Flynn and Stanley's overt SJW tendencies. If Poison Ivy can't be treated as an evil character, when her motivation is to exterminate all animal life on Earth, and Flynn and Stanley are already more focused on writing even more sissified slop than modern capeshit, then there's no way they're going to let Surge be an actual villain.

>>1040691 >Also, is the dog thing in pic related supposed to be Antoine? I can't even tell. According to the Wiki it's suppose to be Muttski

>>1040963 I guess it does kind of look like Muttski's pre-roboticized form, but that's just about the most obscure visual design of any named character in the franchise. I'm trying to look it up, and as far as I can tell he only appeared in a photo in one episode of SatAM, in some illustrations in some chapter books, and in issue #0 of the first Archie miniseries. He does get de-roboticized later, but that's long after Spinball, and the artists draw him absurdly differently. (Plus post-Super Genesis Wave he gets anthropomorphized, which is super weird, but that's like 20 years after the stuff we're talking about.) Anyway I'm just autistically rambling, but my point remains that nobody, especially the Japanese, cares about those cameos in Spinball. Also, I just realized my list up there forgot Breezie. I'm deeply ashamed, as we all know she's one of the top semen demons in the whole franchise.

I'm really annoyed I'm near my flag limit after fiddling with making these.

Maybe >>>/fast/ can use them.

>>1040849 >Surge is a shitty ripoff of Scourge At least the design is better.

>>1040978 Disagree. Scourge, with his shades and his leather jacket with sweet flame decals, is even more tryhard cool than Sonic, which is precisely the point. With Scourge, they remembered that he's supposed to be overcompensating and not actually as cool as Sonic. That aspect has basically been forgotten with Surge. I'd also argue that her being a girl takes away from the effect, though I can hardly count it as a major point against, since it's partially for legalistic reasons, and because I can imagine ways it could actually be used effectively, even if I doubt they would ever do that. Surge could be such an awesome character, but in the time since she's been introduced, they haven't used her as effectively as I think Scourge was used. Then again, that could all be turned around at any time, just like how Flynn took Evil Sonic and actually made him into a good character.

>>1040993 as a guy who never read IDW and read archietwice, I'd say that surge's design is more immediately appealing than that of scourge, and her outward appearance screams punk

>>1040993 >Disagree >Designed by paps You're insulting the commie cat!

>>1041048 Not only am I really not seeing what you're saying, but I also think what you're saying isn't the point. Scourge's design is good because it's fucking lame. It's trying too hard to be cool, and thus failing. And that's the point. I don't get that from Surge's design at all. I also wouldn't say it "screams punk." A little punk? Sure. But not "screaming." I think you're just thinking with your dick, Anon. And I just made a list of Top 75+ Hottest Female Sonic Characters, so I understand, but I still disagree.

>>1037726 3-4 hours if you don't want the collectables. I wished there was more levels, westopolis didn't get a level. It's fun, but it's basically sonic frontiers but a lot smaller in many ways. Probably one of the better sonic experiences in 3D overall, probably top 5.

>>1041074 Westopolis would have been too much like Radical Highway, which is already overrepresented. One of the cyber levels where Shadow goes into the internet or whatever should have been in the game. A unique theme that's only really in that one game. Other Sonic games use the cyber-world conceit, but they don't look as cool, and Shadow the Hedgehog's version is unique-looking.

>>1041057 >Designed by paps It can't be...

>>1041061 >It's SUPPOSED to be shit on purpose

>>1041061 >I don't get that from Surge's design at all. could it be that that is so because they perhaps didn't event try to do that with her?

>>1041251 Yeah, I'm being sincere. That's precisely what makes Scourge interesting. He's not just Evil Sonic. He's Evil Sonic who realized that he actually sucks (because he did suck, because that concept is very simplistic and lame and done better by both Knuckles and Shadow and arguably Metal Sonic) and now tries to overcompensate, but is fundamentally still a loser because he still defines himself based on Sonic, even though he doesn't want to admit that. It adds much pathos and depth that he didn't have before. >>1041270 Yeah, it is. But that's lame. They do have the thing where she hates being a copy of Sonic and wishes she wasn't. Or at least they had that a little bit at first. They haven't really used it much lately. Scourge's design doesn't just show the concept, it shows his personality, including the flaws that make him a villain, and an interesting villain. Surge has the "alt-Sonic" thing, but they don't go deeper than that with her design (even though some of that is in her story and character), and I'd argue that makes her design not as good.

>>1041278 >she hates being a copy of Sonic It’s more that she hates being the platypus’ puppet and her autistic rational blames Sonic for it. Speaking of which, are you that /co/ autist?

>>1041532 >It’s more that she hates being the platypus’ puppet and her autistic rational blames Sonic for it. Well sure, but it gets her to the point of hating that she's a copy of Sonic, which is clearly intentional, since that was something Scourge also had, even if his backstory got him there a different way. I mean I don't think anyone can deny that Surge is clearly Flynn trying to make a legally distinct version of Scourge. And the thing that made Scourge any good, the thing that made him distinct from when he was just "Evil Sonic" (which the story itself admits was lame) was that he basically realized he was literally a lame OC and was trying to overcompensate for it. That element was there with Surge a little bit, but they never used it quite as effectively, and it's been used a lot less lately. Maybe it's just because the current Extreme Gear racing arc has just gone on too fucking long, but Surge is important in it. Just she isn't doing anything very interesting. I hate that they're making her tempted toward heroism. I hope they don't go all the way with it, since that would be boring, but I bet they will. >Speaking of which, are you that /co/ autist? Theoretically there could be more than one, and I don't want to be presumptuous... but yeah, probably. I recently realized that I've consumed all Sonic story media that I could find (there are a few manga chapters that I can't find, which really bugs me). That involves well over 1000 issues and chapters of comics and manga, so I have a lot to say about Sonic comics now. But /co/ sucks and nobody posts on /fast/ so I just get autistic about it here instead.

>>1042040 >I recently realized that I've consumed all Sonic story media that I could find Does that include the ongoing fan continuation of the Archie comic? How is it?

>Surge and Kit I hope Starline returns revealing that he put his brain in a robot body along with a reprogrammed Eggrobo painted like a clown as a subordinate.

>>1042053 >returns revealing that he put his brain in a robot body painted like a clown I wish that, on every series based on trashy Western story structure and Oops, Superman "died" again for views.

Some series like Naruto heavily utilize this sort of reflective story design, where they just remake the same characters over and over so they can make "the same" characters do off-canon BS all day and wave it off as the George Lucas excuse, "it rhymes".

>>1042042 No, it only counts official media, but I did seek out the leaked unreleased/unfinished Archie comics from the end of the run. Also, some of those unfinished issues do have fan-produced lettering, since the lettering is the final step. So some have complete art, and you can tell a lot of the story from just the art, but if you want to make it simpler on yourself, fans have taken it upon themselves to imagine what the lettering would have said. Other issues lack color, or are only pencils with no inks, but fans have done their own versions of those steps as well, if you want that. I personally just care about the officially made content, though, and where it's incomplete, I can imagine the complete version on my own. One issue that was unreleased but leaked by the artist, fully complete, involved Sonic going with Antoine to his parents' home and fighting a guy seeking ancient swords, tying in with some of the swords from Sonic and the Black Knight. Actually, this issue leaked without letters first, and fans had their own letters made for it, but the official letters leaked later and they're much better. It was a pretty cool story, and at the end Antoine says he's gonna keep continuing on that arc, while Sonic goes to help the other Freedom Fighters in their own arcs (though I think the bits of future issues that leaked indicate that Antoine did go with Sonic to help the others, too). Interestingly, it almost seemed like the Freedom Fighters were about to break up, which is precisely what I wanted. I like the characters (well, not Sally), but I don't think they should have been taking up so much focus in the comic. An arc where they all go off to have their own adventures, and then Sonic just checks in on them now and then, would be very cool. It also makes it so you can practically imagine this arc did happen, and then Sonic Forces happened, and then the IDW comic happened. It all fits together relatively well, and basically explains why the Freedom Fighters aren't around. Of course, that's all moot because Flynn just replaced them with new OCs that I like even less because they lack all the history, including the history from the cartoons, which made them significantly more interesting. I never liked Sally, but I like her a hell of a lot more than Lanolin. Jewel fills a role very similar to Nicole, but Nicole had tons of history that gave me at least a bit of affinity to her. Belle fills a role somewhat similar to Bunnie, but Bunnie not only had a lot of history, but was actually pretty cool. Belle is just a little crying bitch that never does anything cool, because she was introduced in the Stephen Universe era of the comic. She missed out on all the eras when characters got to do cool stuff. And Starline? Blatantly just Snivley combined with Finetivus. Now I'm not gonna argue that Finetivus was the most interesting character, even with the history he had, but really the only thing Starline takes from him is that he likes to warp around from place to place. Aside from that he's Snivley, and Snivley is a million times more interesting due to all his history actually adding a lot of depth to his personality and his relationship with Robotnik. He has a lot more complexity as we have seen stories where he is a lot more conflicted and pulled not just to and from Robotnik, but pulled by different characters and motivations. Hope and The Iron Queen aren't terribly interesting characters, but they made Snivley a significantly more interesting character. Especially that time Eggman pretended to make peace with the Iron Queen, then sent a robot version of Snivley off with her so she would never even realize something was wrong. But the implication is that the real Snivley, still captured by Robotnik, would know that even if he left Robotnik and went back to her, it wouldn't be the same, since she'd been fucking a robot version of him for however long. But back to the topic of fan works, I did read the fan continuation of Sonic the Comic, the UK Sonic comic from the '90s. Sonic the Comic Online is special because many of the actual creators of the comic have not just approved of it, but contributed to it. It's definitely a huge step down in quality, especially in the art department, but it's made by many different artists, and some are good and even got hired by Archie and IDW, or went on to do other professional comics work. Unfortunately, the story actually written by Nigel Kitching, who was basically the head writer of Sonic the Comic, fucking sucks. But it functions as an ending (takes place in the future) and it is the guy who wrote most of the best stories, so I think it's fair to consider Sonic the Comic Online to be the real continuation of Sonic the Comic. Recently, after 24 years, they said they completed "Act One" of the comic. I think that's bullshit, and really it might just be over. Releases slowed to a crawl the last few years, and the latest issue had several stories that ended on cliffhangers or introduced new plot points to be continued later. I have no idea what they could mean by "end of Act One" except that they know this might be the end, but say "Act One" to try to be hopeful. Anyway though, I strongly recommend Sonic the Comic. I'd say it's a lot better than the Archie Sonic comic. The art is god awful at first, but it improves significantly after a few months, and becomes excellent eventually. Its world is closer to the games and thus easier to understand for fans of the games, than the Archie comics. It still has plenty of weird stuff, but it's not as weird as anything Penders ever did. It has problems, but it's a great comic overall. And once you finish it, I recommend reading Sonic the Comic Online. It's an admirable effort, and it won't take you long to read it, since it's fans just releasing a couple of issues per year. The original creators consider it canon, and contribute to it. >>1042053 >Eggrobo One little detail I really liked in the later Archie comics, which I think people overlook, was that in Snivley's post-Super Genesis Wave backstory, they say that Snivley was inside the Eggrobo that hassles Knuckles in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. They say Snivley was working for GUN the whole time (though the implication is that he was trying to play both sides the entire time), and used the Eggrobo to try to steal the Master Emerald. He claims it was so he could deliver it to GUN, since Knuckles couldn't be trusted (given that he got tricked by Eggman, who then stole the Emerald, in Sonic's story). Of course, GUN doesn't quite believe him, and figures he was just out for himself. This then also explains why Mecha Sonic destroys the Eggrobo. Mecha Sonic was still working for Eggman, or maybe for himself. (It's not clear in this specific story, but it is clear that Snivley is out for himself. And later, Flynn made it canon in the IDW comics, and thus the games, that Mecha Sonic became independent after Sonic 3 & Knuckles.) >with a reprogrammed Eggrobo painted like a clown as a subordinate. Wouldn't that basically just be another Hardboiled Heavy? Or is this a reference to Belle and Mr. Tinker? What point are you making that I'm too autistic to understand here? >>1042054 I can't understand you fully due to grammar, but I feel obligated to point out that Dragon Ball Z, which Sonic blatantly rips off all the time, so much so that it's basically the identity of the series, is the series most known for characters coming back to life. In Resurrection F, Vegeta literally tells Frieza "Never come back to life again." And you know the best part? Frieza does come back to life again. Also, for the record, Superman has only ever died and come back twice in mainstream continuity. The Death of Superman was a big deal in the '90s and still gets referenced. It's a historically important story and a lot of later stories rely on it happening. It resulted in Green Lantern becoming evil for ten years, for a major example that DC can't really erase even though they did want to back in 2004. Also Superman died again in 2016 but then after a very convoluted story the timeline where that death happened merged with one where it didn't and so it didn't happen in the current timeline. I mean it sort of did on the reader's level, but as far as most characters in the story are concerned, they wouldn't be aware of it. >>1042064 It works better in a single universe where it can be used for a larger story purpose, even if you argue it's kind of bullshit. At least "it rhymes." It's less effective here where Flynn just keeps making up characters to replace characters he's not allowed to use anymore, instead of just using characters he is allowed to use. Hell, even Sage shares an awful lot of similarities not just with Nicole, but perhaps even more closely with Mecha, Robotnik's robot daughter from 2000s Archie comics. She wasn't invented by Flynn, and in fact one of the first things Flynn was hired to do was to kill her off, but he said he liked her and thus tried to give her a good death. Of course he also said he hated Tommy Turtle, and the death he gave him was way more awesome.

>>1042040 >I don't think anyone can deny that Surge is clearly Flynn trying to make a legally distinct version of Scourge Yes, and he decided to go in a different direction instead of just doing Scourge again. **They're both based on a visual glitch anyway&&

>>1042042 >>1042073 Oh yeah, I also made a giant spreadsheet while I was reading all the comics, trying to see just how much I had to squint to pretend they could fit in game continuity. Then I started reading the other comic continuities, and tried to see if I could fit them all together. And of course the cartoons gotta take priority over the comics (but under the games) since more people have seen them. And the movies go above the cartoons. Then I finished viewing everything and realized I couldn't do much with the information except maybe make the most autistic fanfiction ever. But I'm a bit old/employed to be doing that. Though this chart already involves a degree of fanfiction-writing in attempts to contextualize things so that they make sense together. So I'll just post it here. I also got bored by the end and haven't fully updated it with the last few entries, and haven't perfectly edited it to remove all the notes and stuff that I made for myself while I was making it. But it's pretty thorough, and the last bits aren't important. If you get far enough to find the incomplete bits, you'll understand enough to get how those last few bits would be solved. >>1042090 The different direction isn't interesting, though. The interesting parts of Surge are the parts shared with Scourge. The stuff that differs from Scourge only makes her worse. Except maybe Kit. I don't hate Kit, but I don't love him either. Miles from Scourge's universe is kind of interesting, but they never really did much with him. I'd be interested in seeing more with him, but since he never did much, I guess I might like Kit better. I don't think he's been used very effectively yet, but he's alright and has potential. And yes, I know about Ashura the Hedgehog. Do you think anyone in this thread wouldn't? I mean I guess some newfags might be around, so maybe. But you just reminded me of an interesting point. People say Doctor Finitevus is based on "Wechnia," a glitch from Knuckles Chaotix. But I call bullshit. He's clearly based on Doctor Zachary, another albino echidna mad doctor, from Sonic the Comic. His stories were better than Finitevus's stories, by the way, even though his name is fucking lame and gay. Anyway Doctor Zachary first appeared in Sonic the Comic #65, released 11th November, 1995. Knuckles Chaotix released in Europe on June 23, 1995. Now, the Chaotix were already adapted into the comic on the 27th of May, 1995, and I don't know precisely when the Wechnia glitch became something people were talking about on early message boards, or writing in to the comic letters pages about, but I'm skeptical that "Wechnia" was enough of a thing in 1995 to get adapted into the comic by November. Of course, Flynn might have known about Wechnia when he made Doctor Finitevus, but the similarities to Doctor Zachary are too striking for me to say that any similarities to Wechnia even matter, since all similarities to Wechnia are also similarities to Zachary, plus there are far more similarities to Zachary. Speaking of Ashura, though, what blew my mind is when I realized that Super Scourge predated Coldsteel the Hedgehog by a few years. I could have easily convinced myself that Super Scourge was a reference to Coldsteel, since they look and act so similarly. But Super Scourge came first. So it turns out Coldsteel isn't as clever as I thought it was. Flynn thought of it first, but his official comic didn't get as famous as a random internet meme.

>>1042073 >Wouldn't that basically just be another Hardboiled Heavy? Or is this a reference to Belle and Mr. Tinker? What point are you making that I'm too autistic to understand here? It was a half joke, half serious suggestion, given what Kit and Surge are based on unintentionally if we are to believe Flynn.

>>1042158 I totally believe that Flynn is telling the truth. That fucker has clearly never watched Dragon Ball Z. All I want is for him to write more stuff blatantly ripping off Dragon Ball. You know, like the games did. Instead he just watches Stephen Universe or whatever. Plus, it's just too obvious that Surge is Scourge. Android 18 would only come to mind instead for people who never read Flynn's earlier work. He's the guy who wrote it, so of course he knows the incredibly obvious parallel that he wrote just a few years earlier and was specifically banned from using due to legal issues. And anyway, if you're gonna add a third member to Surge's crew, one that's a lot more like Android 16 would work, because Android 16 also shares some superficial similarity with Knuckles, being the big strong guy who is also quiet and introspective and loves nature. Then again, I don't think I want Surge and Kit to become any more like 17 and 18, because 17 and 18 only stayed interesting for a very short time in the story, before quickly being written out and replaced with Cell. 18 was kind of cool with that little subplot about messing with Mr. Satan in the tournament, but most of that was filler (and a movie), and I wouldn't say it makes her interesting enough to think it's a good direction to go with Surge. But actually yeah, if Starline did come back, he would need a new minion, and your idea is pretty good. I was just too autistic to get it. Put him in a robot body, then he can fight a bit better, and give him a new guy to back him up since Sonic has like a zillion friends and it would take more than one guy to make a real threat.