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Welcome to /liberty/
A board for discussing private property norms, Austrian-school economics, and natural rights. Refugees not welcome.
Check out our bros at 9chan:
https://9chan.tw/libertarian/
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FAQ and QTDDTOT
Criticisms of right-wing libertarianism, low effort gotchas, and unpopular opinions should be limited to this thread. You aren't owed attention or a platform to speak out against our views, any new threads attacking anarcho-capitalism will be deleted.
COVENANT COMMUNITIES
A lot of posters seem to be ignorant on what a covenant community is and what its implications are. A covenant community is a small, homogeneous, gated community with strict controls on who can and cannot enter, who can and cannot gain residency, and what conduct must be observed within the community. In other words, it is a privatized micro-ethnostate. The idea was popularized by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, attached are some select quotes from Hoppe explaining the covenant community in his own words:
>there would be little or no “tolerance” and “openmindedness” so dear to left-libertarians. Instead, one would be on the right path toward restoring the freedom of association and exclusion implied in the institution of private property.
There exists a legal principle known as estoppel, which says those who do not value or abide by a certain norm are not entitled to appeal to that norm in their own defense. Commies don't believe in property rights, so they have estopped themselves from appealing to property rights in their own defense. Therefore, there is no need for a covenant community to wait until the commie commits a trespass before physically removing it.
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How do I refute this shit when it gets posted in arguments with statists?
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What would your ideal libertarian society be?
Describe what your idea of the ideal libertarian society would be like. The society I want (and yes, I know this sounds autistic), would essentially be a confederate minarchist voluntary monarchy. Essentially, the Royal central government's only duty would be maintaining a standing national army to defend from foreign invasion. If a covenant community wanted to be member, they would have to pay a small tax to fund the army. Essentially a subscription fee. The benefits of this would be protection from the national army and a title of nobility for the community's leader. Of course, membership in this confederacy would be voluntary. The communities could opt out at any time, which would mean that the national army would have no obligation to protect them, but they could always raise a militia or hire mercenaries for this purpose.
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This man is your friend
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OC Thread: Julay Edition
OC, fresh memes, and rare Aurelias.
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The Mises Caucus has been an abject failure for libertarianism in the United States. Appealing to based latinx groypers and defending Russia non-stop because "muh NATO" has made the party into an even bigger joke.
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How do you feel about former libertarians going full authoritarian right-wing?
What are some good arguments against those kinds of ideologies being the best ones?
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Rulers in Covenant Communities
Could an anarcho-capitalist covenant community hypothetically have a leader? He would of course only rule over his privately owned domain and the people he rules over would voluntarily agree to live under him but could leave at any time. So long as the relationship between this ruler and his subjects was genuinely contractual and the rights of his subjects weren't being violated, could such a system exist in an ancap society?
It wouldn't be a state because his governance would be uncoerced and he wouldn't tax his subjects. I see no reason why this couldn't work and I don't see how it contradicts the doctrines the anarcho-capitalism because everything would be private and voluntary.
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I'm starting to think communism is like a virus without a cure. The only way to become immune to it is by getting infected once and surviving it. Look at all the ex-Soviet countries like Poland, those are the most anti-communist countries. Is this our fate? Are we doomed to have to go through communism at some point?
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why he can only see things from the russian point of view?
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What are some actual decent arguments against anarcho-communism?
Is it authoritarian?
Do they want to ban money and trade?
I'm too lazy to actually read all of the conquest of bread, but from what I've read it's extremely fucking stupid and pretends like scarcity does not exist.
Rothbard's critiques against it are dumb strawman arguments.
Ancom is fucking stupid, you'd think we'd have a massive number of books written against it.
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I hope that this board gets a proper revivial someday.
It's a solid premise for a board and we discuss a lot of these types of topics in the GaymerGay thread. I hope that someday we'll be able to talk about the American Dream here.
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there is too much justifying Putin and blaming NATO going on in libertarian circles.
I thought we were anti-war, but it seems like it's always the US fault even when it's another State to invade a State.
Also is there a place left on the internet to discuss with libertarians? This board is plagued by an AI bot and I'm not even sure this will be read by any real person at all.
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>not a single thread about Milei
damn....
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How many of you are having troubles keeping their libertarianism together with all this blm bullshit going on?
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Libertarianism Lost
2005-2010 was a brief renaissance in libertarianism. If you compare 2009 v. 2019, there were a LOT more libertarians and ancaps on the web and in political discourse. Since then, they've left in droves over to the alt-right, fascism, monarchism, or other ends of the political spectrum.
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I miss 8ch's /liberty/.
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opinions on Georgism?
"Georgism, also called geoism[2] and single tax (archaic), is an economic ideology holding that while people should own the value they produce themselves, economic value derived from land (often including natural resources and natural opportunities) should belong equally to all members of society.[3][4][5] Developed from the writings of the economist and social reformer Henry George, the Georgist paradigm seeks solutions to social and ecological problems, based on principles of land rights and public finance which attempt to integrate economic efficiency with social justice.[6][7]
Georgism is concerned with the distribution of economic rent caused by natural monopolies, pollution and the control of commons, including title of ownership for natural resources and other contrived privileges (e.g. intellectual property). Any natural resource which is inherently limited in supply can generate economic rent, but the classical and most significant example of land monopoly involves the extraction of common ground rent from valuable urban locations. Georgists argue that taxing economic rent is efficient, fair and equitable. The main Georgist policy recommendation is a tax assessed on land value. Georgists argue that revenues from a land value tax (LVT) can be used to reduce or eliminate existing taxes (for example, on income, trade, or purchases) that are unfair and inefficient. Some Georgists also advocate for the return of surplus public revenue to the people by means of a basic income or citizen's dividend."
thoughts?
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Video Content Thread
Post webms and mp4s here.
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Random/Shitpost/Off-topic
I just want to shitpost for god's sake.
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Julay Rebirth Discussion
JulayWorld is shutting down as we know it, but there is discussion about a recreation of it with the essential boards.
There might also be another migration, but look into
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Covid Certificate?
Does anyone know where I can find someone who sells legit certificates online? I need to find a rebel who believes in freedom...
Any help is appreciated
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Botswana
Are Botswanans the only ooga boogas that are slowly figuring out how NAP works?
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Anti-Crawl Thread
Post here when you check out the board, have something that you think doesn't deserve a full thread, or just want to shoot the shit.
Time to roll the dice to see if this board's captcha system will let me post or not!
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Hi lolberts. I come in peace. I am looking for the anons from 8chan.net/leftypol/ and bunkerchan.xyz. Do you know if there is an active board for memes about Albania? Did they all get jobs and shit? Probably.
It looks like there is some activity on the decoy website leftypol.org so I'll ask there too.
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who do you think are russian spies that infiltrated the libertarian movement?
Yeah, we can act like we're pure and immune, but the truth is that russian infiltration is not just a fantasy of the democrats.
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/liberty/ jewtubers?
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now that Trump has lost, magatards won't have a leader and many of them will finally open up to new ideas, and maybe we can put them on the road to libertarian redeption.
I think it's a good time to take back 4chan /pol/.
Is anyone interested in pursuing a pro-libertarian pro-misesian propaganda effort?
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I'm gonna build my private ancap colony with blackjack and hookers.
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Libertarian National Socialism
>>>/pol/8031
This is a continuation of a deleted thread on /v/
https://8chan.moe/v/res/228762.html#q239225
>National or 'Nazi' as the Jew say, on the subject of Race and Eugenics.
>Socialist in that Citizens should receive revenue from Publicly owned property.
>Libertarian in everything else
HAIL VICTORY!
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Occupational Licensure
Why can't libertarianism make any meaningful progress on occupational licensing? Look at this picture. Whoa, 11 states where you can maybe be a barber or a watchmaker or something. Wooo, wow, great progress.
Meanwhile, the history of pharmacist licensing has gone as follows:
1905 - 2 year degree
1932 - 4 year program
1954 - 5 year program
Current: Doctor of pharmacy degree + X hours in apprenticeship program, etc., etc..
Shit, if it improves quality so much, make it a goddam 12 year program with a 5 year apprenticeship. Why the fuck not? Is there really no upper goddam limit to these things? At the very least you'd think we could agree that occupational licensure should have a limit of--say--two years of educational training or
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/liberty/ for the Infinity Winter Cup 2020!
Hey there, /liberty/!
We're in the process of organizing a new edition of
The Infinity Cup or /icup/ for short, a virtual soccer tournament pitching various boards and imageboards against each other, and we're trying to find out if any of the boards that previously joined us wanted to reserve a spot in the final tournament.
Since your team was already present in previous iterations, we already have both your roster, your kits and logos, so the only thing we ask of you if you want to join is the following:
1) Making sure your team has the correct number of medals (1 Gold, 1 Silver and 2 Bronze), which you can see from the wiki page;
http://infinitycup.shoutwiki.com/wiki//liberty/
2) Making a thread over at
https://anon.cafe/icup/ with your team's pledge, you just need to make a new thread telling us that your board wants in on the cup.
Optionally) Assign player cards, roles and special strategies to your players, which can be referenced from the following wiki articles:
http://infinitycup.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Player_Cards
http://infinitycup.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Rules
http://infinitycup.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Team_Strategies
Optionally2) Change roster names and/or give us 3D models to use for your team, or new kits or whatever contribution you'd like.
I hope to see you guys on the pitch!
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Charter Cities
What about them?
The idea is "Governance as a Service", you sign up in a city to either live there or start a business, and enter a contract which is also the permanent law, no unilateral changes possible. Taxes are nonexistant, instead you pay a yearly fee. The city guarantees security, infrastructure and so forth, and that's it.
Your disputes with the city are subject to common law and would take place in front of international arbitration courts.
This one is launching in the current year on a Honduran island, it's not quite the full package but it's a very solid start.
https://prospera.hn/
https://econamericas.com/2020/07/first-charter-city-honduras-prospera-revives-zedes/
They see themselves in line with "special economic zone" cities / city-states like Hong Kong, Singapore, Monaco, or historical merchant cities like Venice. Personally i think this idea has great potential, it's the apolitical solution: Cities like these tend to be extremely economically successful (like Hong Kong for example), attract freedom- and business-minded people and silently grow into powerful economical hubs with top tier living standards
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revolt hangout
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What are your thoughts on evictionism? It's a proposal to solve the abortion debate from a libertarian perspective. It basically goes like this: since you are the owner of yourself, and you have full autonomy over your property, a woman has full autonomy over her body. Just like how you have the right to evict anyone you don't like out of your house for whatever reason, a woman has the right to evict her baby from her body whenever she wants to for whatever reason. In other words, the act of evicting a fetus itself doesn't violate the NAP, so it shouldn't be illegal to do so. But of course, we all know what happens to a fetus after it gets aborted, it dies. That's the part where you could argue, although the first act doesn't violate the NAP, the second one does, so you could say it still violates the NAP. The problem with that logic, however, is that that would be like saying that kicking out someone out of your property because they haven't paid their rent, and they end up dying of hyperthermia on the streets a few days afterwords, then that means you broke the NAP because your first action resulted in that person dying. I'm sure most people here would agree that you didn't break the NAP just for kicking that person out, even if they did end up dying afterwards. Either way, evictionism tries to solve this by saying we should be looking into ways to save a fetus after it gets aborted. Currently, it isn't possible for a woman who evicts her fetus to give that fetus to another woman who wants it, but if it were possible, it would basically be the equivalent of the fetus being evicted from its previous home and moving in to a new home.
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Libertarians are eternal losers.
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Was Pinochet a force for Chilean liberty in the long run?
I am not asking the prescriptive question of "Should we offer free helicopter rides to communists," but the historical descriptive question of, "Did Pinochet's regime's policy of execution/arrest of communists result in a more economically liberal society?"
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A new homestead has been embordered
hoppe-sama.xyz/liberty/
As of this message, Julay world will be undergoing a rebuild in 88 day's time, after which "core" boards will be the only ones present on Julay. I don't anticipate /liberty/ being one of these core boards, so we'll be moving to a site of our own to prepare for the change. I'll be active both here and on the new site until the Julay board goes down.
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Animal Crossing: New Horizons
Is Animal Crossing an ancap game?
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COVID-19
Maybe somebody's made a thread already but I can't find it so fuck you.
Some would say that this is a big nothingburger and it'll blow over in a few weeks. Others would call it the next 9/11. Judging by how Costco's been recently, normalfags are panicking, but not enough to consider buying the premium reverse osmosis purified electrolyte-enhanced alkaline smart water. I'll give my take:
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Content Thread
Post content (memes, cartoons, etc.) relating to all aspects of libertarianism, whether it be history or economics or foreign policy or anything else. Sharing others' is fine, but anything original is greatly encouraged!
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Licensing Licensing Licensing
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I've been hearing a lot of bad shit about the upcoming election in November. Mail-in fraud, rumors about Mattis leading a coup d'etat, Pelosi stating that Trump should be forced out of the office, arsonists starting wildfires on the West Coast, and of course all of the BLM rioters in major cities across the U.S.. What do you think is going to happen in November? How should I prepare (other than "SKS inna woods").
Also, if any of you can help me gather sources for what I said, I'd appreciate it, because every search engine immediately places MSM sources at the top all with the exact same articles trying to refute every single item in my list. It's all just so goddam Orwellian.
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>it's been statistically proven multiple times that the countries with the freest markets are the most environmentally friendly
>yet most libertarians and other free market activists rather stick with climate denial
Why is it this way? We could get more people on our side if we point this out.
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Libertarian Theory of Capital Punishment
Supposing that capital punishment is valid for sufficient crimes, where does the right to execute lie? I'd like to specifically think about the crime of murder.
Murray Rothbard wrote the following:
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we need a doctrine for war libertarianism.
There are libertarians, even Kinsella, who complain about Florida laws against proof of vaccination because it stops small business from doing something.
They don't understand that it's a necessary act to impede the federal government who could otherwise use federal funding or just the law to mandate proof of vaccination.
This is because many libertarian autists don't understand that in war time you are allowed to fight and it's not a violation of the NAP. At the same time, it's not like everything is allowed just because we are at war so we need a doctrine for libertarianism in time of war like the one we are living right now.
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Secession
Sometimes when I go to sleep at night, I imagine California seceding from the U.S.. At least in my mind it sounds like such a good deal. That humongous electoral block that almost decides every single goddam election being gone. San Francisco and Los Angeles being truly California's problem. All the Hollywood celebrities not being part of the U.S..
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How would a libertarian society deal with unions especially teachers unions?
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Brother MFC-2700DW.
This is what made me stop being a libertarian after listening to the Tom Woods Show daily for 5 years, reading Rothbard, Hoppe and all the misesian crew.
A fucking multi-purpose printer.
Why?
Because I just found out that the scanning function doesn't work if the printer runs out of ink. A feature completely separated from the other doesn't work because of some jewish software trickery.
This is not something that can be solved using the free market because it's such a specific nuisance that it will never be adressed. I mean, would a court defend me? Instead the State would be a lot more efficient. One law to stop hardware being stopped by software and the problem is solved and justice is served.
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Ay, anyone wanna help me turn this into an ancap flag?
https://pixelcanvas.io/@-441,-592
It used to be one before the on life commies turned into a commie flag. Somebody who knows more about pixel art than me could also make a template to make a gadsden snake.
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what do you think is the real reason for the various lockdowns around the world?
I mean, is it just government retardation or do you think there are more nefarious reasons behind them?
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Libertarian Theonomy
Is Biblical law compatible with libertarianism? R.J. Rushdoony and Gary North made some compelling arguments for it, in my opinion.
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property tax
how on earth do governments rationalize property tax? it just seems cruel to tax people on the land they live on. Why should you pay anyone for the right to own your home? i bet people became homeless due to this bullshit. What do you guys think? This is for me some of the cruelest shit i have ever experienced. Everyone needs an unconditional right to a home and should always feel safe knowing no one can take that from them and they can always have the right to defend that home with whatever means necessary.
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Have you guys read this book?
What are your thoughts on it?
If you haven't you should, I can't think of any media that comes close to being as ancap as this.
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The Big Grift
The free market is dead. There is no price discovery. There is no real demand. It's just the Fed buying garbage. Get out as soon as you can.
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Yet Another 2020 Election Thread
Alright, I'm having trouble keeping all this shit straight in my head, so I'm posting it all here. As of 2020/11/06, the following states are in the air, and this is their status:
Sources:
https://www.scotusblog.com/election-litigation/
https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/ordersofthecourt/20
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-campaign-demands-recount-wisconsin-2020-election/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/06/georgia-recount-us-election-biden-trump
Pennsylvania - As of today, taken to SCOTUS over whether ballots past November 3rd, 8 p.m. should be counted. If the SCOTUS agrees with Trump, Pennsylvania will go to Trump, otherwise, it goes to Biden.
20 votes
Wisconsin - Recount has been requested. Currently standing for Biden.
10 votes
Georgia - Undergoing recount. Currently standing for Biden.
16 votes
Michigan - Currently standing for Biden. Under lawsuit for not allowing observer access, and for counting votes past the deadline similar to the Pennsylvania case.
16 votes
Nevada - Still counting. Currently standing for Biden.
6 votes
Arizona - Still counting. Currently standing for Biden. Under lawsuit for allowing voter registration up to five days after the election.
11 votes
North Carolina - Still counting. Currently standing for Trump.
15 votes
Alaska - Still counting. Currently standing for Trump.
3 votes
Excluding these states (there are other lawsuits pending, but the number of votes in those lawsuits would not impact the result (like in Texas)):
Biden has 227
Trump has 214
Here's the total including the ones without lawsuits or recounts pending:
Biden 233
Trump 232
Meaning the following are undecided:
20-Pennsylvania
10-Wisconsin
16-Georgia
16-Michigan
11-Arizona
Current stuff I've heard about that's interesting, and can confirm with a solid source:
- The Dems had this strategy for a while now.
Source:
https://archive.is/ZEeZ8
- If Trump wins Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan, but Biden wins Arizona and Pennsylvania; then it's a tie and the House chooses by delegation per state, which likely means Trump wins the presidency.
Source: 12th amendment.
- Kind of obvious, but, if neither candidate resolves the above lawsuits before December 8th so that neither candidate has 270, then this activates a "Safe Harbor" law. At which point, Trump would likely win.
Source:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/the-electoral-college.aspx
- Michigan has issues with counting software. I can't find if this is actually going to impact the count, though.
Source:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/michigan-gop-software-stole-6000-votes-trump-one-county-used-47-counties/?ff_source=Facebook&ff_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
Current stuff I've heard about that's interesting, but I can not confirm with a solid source:
-There's a watermark and this was all planned by the DHS to rat out election fraud.
Post news as you hear about it.
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Operation Paul Revere
TL;DR: PRINT PICTURE AND SPREAD THE PASTA AROUND IRL AS POSTERS EVERYWHERE ON THE 11TH
Hello everyone. I have been watching the current events with terrible dread and heartache. I never expected to see the USA reduced to such Banana Republic antics of ballot stuffing in such absurd scale, much less such a wide reaching effort by so much of the deep state, media and big tech to align this well. However I refuse to go down like this.
We have not only enough proof of election quackery to fight court battles, the SCOTUS is aligned with more conservatives leanings and a large part of the population is ready to make a stand. We have until December 8th to fight legally and till December 14th to get the Electoral College to properly contest these phony results. Thus I had the idea for operation Paul Revere.
No violence, no uprisings or militias. None of that is needed for now. Simply spread the word. A symbol, something to make it clear that we will not take to being lied and cheated like this. I took a page off the It's Ok To Be White operation and the amazing results it got, and we shall use that.
In the OP you can see what I suggest we use. A simple symbol of what has come to signify the shady nature of this election, the mysterious straight line of thousands and thousands of Biden only ballots that were delivered to the counting centers in Wisconsin at 4am on the 4th. Simple, elegant, poignant.
I was gonna post this on 4chan's /pol/, but the place has become a complete fuck fest of shills. I trust you here to be a better audience.
However, this is big. This isn't just a stand against Critical Race Theory, this is more. The fundamental institution of the Republic is being attacked, which demands a bigger crowd than dedicated shitposters. As such we need to make a alliance with the normies. Reach out to your IRL friends, that one boomer Trump supporting uncle, discord and IRC friends, that cousin you speak with, those local Facebook groups of Trump supporters, everyone. Tell them about it and get them to help. From sea to shining sea the message must be spread. We have to work to make ourselves heard, because the media sure as shit is not interested in helping us, big tech wants us gone, and even the Republican party which is supposed to help their president has been taken over by spineless Neocons and RINOs who will be all too happy to go back to the status quo of 2015.
Due to the normie nature of these extra sets of hands keep redpills to a minimum. No happy merchants, no NATSOC shit, no edgy racial humor. We need to spread this far and wide, and restraining ourselves for a moment is a small price to pay to ensure justice and block the interests of these people who want to go back to endless wars in the ME and selling out everything for scraps of profit at the cost of our souls. Given the involvement of normies in the operation we also need to accommodate the time table to account for that. As such I suggest we make it so the posters go up on the 11th to give them all of Monday to go print and the weekend plus Monday to spread the world on their social circles. Alongside the posters a call for unity and cooperation in the form of a link to local telegram groups of normies read to communicate and organize. I am not gonna create any of these myself, instead we should rely on the boomers and normies themselves to crystallize around their social circles. To spread the message we will use the call for action image there.
Godspeed everyone, and good luck.
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Accelerationism
Do accelerationists think that the ratchet effect doesn't exist? How do accelerationists explain the continued existence of North Korea?
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>dharmapilled
Non-Christians get physically removed, so to speak.
You aren't a pagan or satanist, right Anon?
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ANCAP TECH TREE
Discuss it.
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whats the deal with this guy?
apparently he wants transhumanist libertarianism, and is a Republican presidental candidate.
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Objectivism thread
/liberty/'s opinions on Objectivism and Rand?
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Please post other libertarian forums, blogs, etc.. All I have are two podcasts from Bob Murphy and Jeff Deist once every couple weeks, and the four posts on this forum that isn't someone diaperposting.
Being one of the remaining 12 libertarians in 2020 is kind of depressing.
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Secessionism v. GTFOism
A secession movement is usually reserved for one territory trying to leave a political organization with a larger one. Is there a name for a movement whereby the larger organization tries to kick out the smaller one from its organization?
Instead of a Californian or New York secession movement, I think there should be a “GTFO” movement for California or New York. If at least just for the lulz, I want to see the reaction of commie New Yorkers and Californians to large segments of the population not wanting to secede (therefore making them halt their tongues with "muh secessionism=slavery" stupidity), but wanting them to leave the country already.
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"Corruption"
I've noticed how Marxist's goto tagline excuse is "corruption," and how often "corruption" is used as a weasel word or just bland excuse. The most blatant example is "Why did the Venezuelan government collapse? Oh, 'corruption.'" (
https://invidio.us/watch?v=IYfgvS0FA7U ) "European governments are so much less 'corrupt' than the U.S. or other governments around the world." There's no critical thought about how--say--
maybe a ridiculously large government might be the cause of incredibly amounts of "corruption" or something. In other words, corruption is often defined in such a way that it allows the user to ignore root causes. That's not even getting into how would you even define 'corruption.'
I've also noticed how a lot of international rankings have started including nebulous calculations and rankings of 'corruption' now. It seems like it's built into the rankings just to fix the conclusions they feel the indexes are 'supposed' to draw.
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Where are the libertarians and old Mises forum folks hanging out nowadays? Please don't fucking tell me they're on Facebook.
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Bloody-Silver
The V-for-Voluntary-Vendetta symbol or 'Bloody-Silver' was created in 2021 in search for a new symbol that would capture the essence of the Liberty movement 'at war' with neo-communism (nucoms). The colours of the symbol are silver and scarlet. Historically, pure physical silver was the currency used to pay for a day's labour in the more meritocratic civilisations that valued quality of life for the mode of society. Silver was valued as a currency that limited tyranny and permitted free-exchange—and any currency that fulfils this function is as good as silver was—the free-market, including the free-market in currencies, is 'as a silver-bullet to the financial-vampires that drain vitality from society.' Scarlet represents the 'sacrifice in life, through war, that must always be made to water the Tree-of-Liberty.' The ultimate objective is that interaction between persons should be voluntary and not forced nor coerced. The shape at the top of the symbol represents a handshake, which is the most typical expression of a voluntary agreement.
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when two people exchange they both value what they are receiving more than what they are giving away, but is this the right way to value things?
I mean, people could listen to libertarians and instead go listen to commies like Haran and Vaush, they are much more popular.
So, is subjective value really a good fundamental? Should we not find a better way?
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Why aren't we voting for Sanders or Warren just to accelerate the collapse of the US dollar to make sure it happens under a socialist president?
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It is wrong for libertarians to try and change society.
People don't want liberty and don't understand it at all anyway.
It is a violence to force people who want to be enslaved to stay enslaved.
Instead libertarians should make a pact with other rulers, or become rulers themselves, so that they have their own space and the ability to pull out those who want to be pulled out from enslavement.
This is a very vague low quality post, I know, but the problem of people who want to stay enslaved must be solved.
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Understanding Power and its dangers
If you haven't read and properly understood 1984 you should geniuently never speak about politics. Although basic and very popular, it feels as if people are starting to disregard Orwell's writing as overrated or perhaps missunderstand them. Despite being a socialist, Orwell is an incredibly important writer to libertarianism as a whole, and should be a warning against any kind of authoritarianism.
There is one 1984 quote that I have not seen being thrown around too much, even though it is probably the most important part of the book and the most important revelation to political thought that you could ever have, especially as a libertarian.
"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."
Those words, give us the most obvious explanation for why things go the way they do, one that is not understood by many. Many people who get into politics often believe in the idea of gaining power for the sake of establishing a better society that would in return grant more freedom either to the entirety of populace, or just a group of them.
THIS IS NOT HOW POWER WORKS
I'm not saying that you cannot be a politician who geniuently wants to improve the quality of life of people, but giving the governing bodies more power will always inevitably lead to tyranny and opression by the simple fact that the structures of power are naturally built for the rulers to seek more power to keep themselves in power. Even if they have the absolute best of their citizens in mind, gaining power will always make them seek more power for the simple reason that gaining power allows them to keep ruling and push forwards their visions. And if they don't go that path, they will simply be replaced by someone who does not have the moral qualms of seeking more control over populace, simply because controlling people makes you more effective at governing and keeping in power than not controlling them. Any kind of power seeking for good means will be either corrupted, or derailed by sociopaths. This is why, you cannot expect to use a Fascist or any other authoritarian system to institute a Libertarian one simply because, authoritarian systems will ALWAYS seek more power for themselves to simply keep existing. In a theoretical situation where you become a ruler of a country, if your goal is even to prepare society for a Libertarian system by the means of an authoritarian one, that will too force you to seek more power for an authoritarian system so that you can accomplish your goals. At the end of the road, either you will abandon libertarianism, or someone who has will replace you to use the newfound power more effectively.
This is why the core of Right Wing Libertarianism to begin with is the deconstruction of power. Free market is a system that decentralises power structures into smaller power structures, rivarly between naturally appearing power structures makes them not grow out of control and take over every facet of our lives. A political goal of a libertarian who wishes for the preservation of freedom should never be gaining power, it should be working towards the decentralisation of power, because that is what the idea of Liberty is about. We cannot get rid off of power structures, but we can decentralise and privatise them to such an extent, where they no longer have such a large grip on the individual.
This is true both for dictatorships and democracies. Never fall for the government meme, never fall for the power meme. Power needs to be ALWAYS stripped away from the governments and any other ruling bodies, not increased. Even if it seems that a temporary increase of government powers might lead to bigger amounts of liberty later on, this is a fallacious line of thinking. Power and control always require more power and control over the lives of men to be worth anything for the rulers. I hope you understand how important decentralisation of structures of power is so that it doesn't extend a grip on our personal lives and liberty. No one wants to live in an authoritarian nightmare. Reject the idea of establishing centralised power structures, always decentralise them into private property. Do not fall for the Authoritarian meme.
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Debating
I absolutely suck at defending or promoting libertarianism. Whenever it comes up in a debate, I'll either remain quiet, or end up losing yet more friends and family. One possibility is I absolutely suck at rhetoric, which is probably true, but before I get into that, I'd like to point out a major rhetorical issue I've been having.
I think the issue is that libertarianism is just way too abstract to make the case for, and as evidence of this, I've played the other side and have been able to convince people of socialism incredibly easy. When I argue for socialism, all I have to do is bring up the other side's biggest emotional issue, and then describe a very concrete program that the government could do to solve it. You can always very concretely "see" the solution. When I argue on the libertarian's side, I either have to bring up "the seen and unseen," which is either too abstract and the other side isn't going to care about the unseen because they have such a huge emotional investment in the seen; or I try to bring up how not having government in the way would make things better, which still involves a very theoretical and hopeful argument about actors coming in after removing certain barriers to entry/etc.. Or I have to argue about the issue of conceit and hubris in government planning and how their proposed government solution likely wouldn't work (in practice, this approach has been one of the work arguments that--although it never worked either--at least garnered me some respect at the end of the discussion, mainly because people think I'm discussing ways to _improve_ the suggested governance of the program as opposed to outright arguing against it).
I have three possible conclusions here:
1 - There's a reason the socialist debating points win so easily: which is that they're actually correct, and I'm fooling myself.
2 - Libertarianism has a serious philosophical issue with being too abstract.
3 - I really, really fucking suck at debating.
I'm thinking it's the third, but I have to say I'm getting more and more sympathetic to 1 as I've been able to win debates (EASILY) by lying that I'm a socialist. Thoughts? Am I right? If so, help appreciated. If not, let's hear it.
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Abandoned
Is this board really abandoned? If it is what are some alternatives?
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Bitcoin (BSV)
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are traditionalists worse than socialists?
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Abolishing Central Banking should be the primary policy proposal of the Libertarian party in 2020.
What do you guys think?
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Let me put the pieces together for you. This is a discussion of strategy.
National socialism is not the totalitarian lie that you've been fed, even good historians from the libertarian camp repeat the establishment talking points.
National socialism is:
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>Taxes are just like rent
Counter-arguments for this please? I'm in a debate on another website and they brought this point up.
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what do I do with the thousands of hours I wasted on politics and economics? Is there a way to monetize these hours even if I don't hold a degree?
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Were taxes REALLY much higher on the rich in the 1950s?
Can we get a definitive answer on this?
I mean if we plan on winning, we need to be countering these dumb talking points.
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California People's Republic
Will they finally do it?
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Liberterian Strategies To Counter Epidemics
Ok, since board is usually not very active, let me start a couple threads of interests.
In a libertarian society what would be the strategies to deal with an epidemic/outbreak ?
I choose this subject because it is an ideal subject to come up with solutions as it is usually thought as something to be countered from a central authority, such as border health checks restrictions etc.
We all know a libertarian society can easily switch to producing masks, drugs, medical machinery etc fast and cheap in abundance. So I thing we are all set on that point.
So about street security, health checks on borders and these required tests... who would be up to make them, in what ways etc.
Go.
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ITT: Post liberty's article
I think this article is important and worth of sharing of. Have a read
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Excerpt from Wikipedia:
Rushdoony believed that a republic is a better form of civil government than a democracy. According to Rushdoony, a republic avoided mob rule and the rule of the "51%" of society; in other words "might does not make right" in a republic.[31] Rushdoony wrote that America's separation of powers between 3 branches of government is a far more neutral and better method of civil government than a direct democracy, stating "[t]he [American] Constitution was designed to perpetuate a Christian order". Rushdoony argues that the Constitution's purpose was to protect religion from the federal government and to preserve "states' rights."[32]
Rushdoony's work has been used by Dominion Theology advocates who attempt to implement a Christian government subject to Biblical law in the United States. Authority, behavioral boundaries, economics, penology and the like would all be governed by biblical principles in Rushdoony's vision, but he also proposed a wide system of freedom, especially in the economic sphere, and claimed Ludwig von Mises as an intellectual mentor; he called himself a Christian libertarian.[17]
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INTERNATIONAL RAID THREAD
RAİD FOR FREEDOM
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Why is agorism considered a separate ideology from anarcho-capitalism? It seems like anarcho-capitalism is the end result of agorism.
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While I usually defend free market and freedom, and argue that the only reason the roastie problem is out of control is due to State's incentives towards women's education, divorce, single motherhood, I'm not sure it is enough.
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Should journalists be physically removed?
Over the past two decades, I've seen U.S. mainstream media:
- Refuse to mention blowback w.r.t. 9/11.
- For the next two decades hence stay mum whenever the "Patriot" Act got renewed.
- Lie about WMDs and get the U.S. into Iraq.
- Lie about the economy immediately before the '08 crash.
- Rally for TARP after the '08 crash.
- Lie about Obamacare.
- Lie about Syria and the White Helmets.
- Lie about Iran.
- All the while stay absolutely and completely mum about what the CIA, NSA, etc. do or have done, and conveniently don't say a word about SOPA, PIPA, FOSCA, etc..
And I have a sneaking feeling they're lying about how terrible this COVID19 stuff is actually going to be in the U.S. right now.
1 - How is the U.S. government so perfectly in correct of major news organizations? They don't say a
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I have been thinking about creating an American ‘political’ organization along the lines of the dissent right wing groups in Europe. The idea is to have the organization be distantly American so that criticism of the
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Death and Taxes in a Libertarian/Minarchist Community
Let's discuss taxation, its legitimacy or lack thereof, and ways to keep what public servants that may exist in a freer society accountable.
Minarchism and Libertarianism are both anti-statist ideologies but they still hinge somewhat on the presence of, if little else, a system of courts where conflicts between citizens are arbitrated-and this arrangement necessitates presence of full time employees.
Is it possible to have zero taxes and if not, what would be the most ethical means of procurement and distribution be?
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Are there any differences between voluntaryism and anarcho-capitalism? I see people use these terms interchangeably, but I also see people claim they're separate ideologies.
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Rona Card
If someone I knew wanted to get a verifiable vaccine card, what would he need to do and where he need to go?
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fed holdings of financial assets july 2020
how do we bankrupt this
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Negative Interest Rates
ITT we discuss how negative interest rates are going to destroy our collective economic futures.
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Should there be a state to enforce contracts or should gentlemen settle it between themselves?
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Automation and A.I. in the next 20-30 years is going to result in a massive radical transformation and many jobs will be lost but new ones will be created in other sectors. Massive reductions in the cost of products and services like food and transportation are going to occur.
After this transformation happens and prices for consumers comes down, living standards are going to increase, right? People would supposedly have much more disposable income, right?
We all know healthcare, college and housing are artificially expensive due to government intervention, and these costs will continue to rise.
My question is, are the increased costs of healthcare, tuition and housing going to keep increasing which will NEGATE any benefits of this automation?
In the future in America are healthcare/tuition costs in the typical american's budget going to be the largest expense people have to pay for because the costs have been so artificially inflated by government intervention?
Imagine if food and transportation is insanely cheap but health insurance costs a fortune for everybody.
I really hate that the government intervenes in these sectors, it makes it look like "the free market" is responsible for these high prices, this myth won't go away. We need to solve these problems before it's too late.
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Hail Science
Its a cult.
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>Wants to be president to small'th gov
>Gov takes notice and recognizes her as a candidate
>Vast majority of libertarians mindlessly support her instead of being productive
>Gov selects trump again, since the elections are rigged.
>Months of attaining liberty is wasted
>Gov stays big
Do you not see how the gov is just going to use JoJo as a psyop?
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Yes, kill the kings, and the state.
But also, kill the laws. We cannot call ourselves "free" when we literally have things that literally doesn't exist controlling our egos.
You, ancaps, think that you're free, but you're a slave of the money, of the idea of being richer and richer.
Sure you can be the boss of some workers, but you're an abstract idea's slave.
We have to burn all the capitalist shit to be free? Yes. But communism is also not enough. You're the people's slave. You cannot think for yourself in communism, because, first, the community, then, you.
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Links
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Epic Cash: The Future of Money
All right people, it's time to move up.
Big Brother is watching you and will do anything to screw up your privacy and freedom rights together with the purchasing power of the Dollar.
I'll get straight to the point, if you thought Bitcoin was the medium of exchange you would use to keep your transactions private then you are terribly wrong, its Blockchain is public and will not guarantee as much privacy as you would need to keep your info hidden and safe.
You must protect your data and your identity if you consider to have ones, so how could someone send money to others in a really truly private way if they can't trust the financial system nor Bitcoin and its derivatives?
The answer is Epic Cash, a scalable, fungible, and private medium of exchange.
More info in the replies below.
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Constitutional Libertarian Monarchy
What do you think of the concept of Constitutional Libertarian Monarchy? The King would be responsible for enforcing the NAP based libertarian constitution. Imagine, for example, if the British Empire had fully compromised with George Washington and adopted a libertarian constitution in order to keep the American colonies within the Empire. This is one historical way I think a Constitutional Libertarian Monarchy could have arisen nya~
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Did... Did normies just get redpilled on the free market???
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If Trump takes over what do we do?
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Trump Appointing Supporter of Gold Standard to Fed Board
Judy Shelton may be confirmed to the Federal Reserve (vote Tues or Wed)
>Trump has nominated Judy Shelton to a 10-year term as a Fed governor in July 2019 but it has languished, in part because she's a divisive figure.
>Shelton is a long time critic of the Fed and once pushed for higher interest rates and a return to a gold standard. She later back tracked on those positions as she sought to secure President Trump's nomination to the Fed and congressional support.
>It's not clear if she will have the votes to get the nomination. Republicans said she didn't as recently as September but now that they've lost the Presidency, they may want to hand Biden a hand grenade.
>She will need to get 51 votes in the Senate to be confirmed. Mitch McConnell has set a procedural vote to advance her nomination, so we'll see where that goes.
>Update: The vote will be next Tuesday or Wednesday. This is the most-interesting Fed confirmation vote I can remember.
https://archive.is/NhVmX
https://www.forexlive.com/centralbank/!/judy-shelton-may-be-confirmed-to-the-federal-reserve-in-the-lame-duck-20201112
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Know of any Far right music that is not rock or extreme racist?
Know of any Far right music that is not rock or extreme racist?
I am sick of all songs only being about love or some girl it is getting old. I want to hear a song about how bad the jews are or how evil women are or how evil the users of money are.
Link me with some artists.
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Karens v. libertarianism
Who's the bigger threat to liberty? The millions of Karens in local city governments/HR departments/government agencies, or the federal government?
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Give it to me straight /liberty/, do you care about who wins the US elections? American politics (and really just western politics in the last 100 years) all seem so trivial to me. It's like a way to distract people from actually getting shit done. Have them believe that their vote actually matters so that they don't try to do anything else. Have two political factions and make everyone fight against each other so they're too busy to think about who their real enemy is. That's all modern politics are to me, a distraction. Sure, you could go about who "the least of all evils" is, and try to make him win, but at the end of the day, you're still just surrendering to the state. At this rate, nothing will change.
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Resisting The Great Reset
How do we resist this dystopian scheme the WEF is pushing? It seems to be the real agenda behind the scamdemic. Even though it seems to be unpopular right now, it doesn't change the fact that governments and their subsidized corporations/organizations are going to push this hard and if it succeeds, I don't know if we could ever escape it.
I noticed that people even in non-libertarian circles have been suggesting what is essentially agorism. Saying that we should just create parallel societies through grassroots economics. Is this the proper way we fight this?
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Panarchism
What does /liberty/ think about Panarchy? Is it a good enough compromise between ancaps and left-anarchists or is it a scam for ancoms to get their way?
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Making Money
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/liberty/ media
As I don´t see any thread like this. I would like to started this so we can share entertainment products that we think has libertarian messages.
The example that comes up to my mind right now is the original Deus Ex
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>Planned legislation to establish new business areas in Nevada would allow technology companies to effectively form separate local governments.
>Democratic Gov. Steve Sisolak announced a plan to launch so-called Innovation Zones in Nevada to jumpstart the state’s economy by attracting technology firms, Las Vegas Review-Journal reported Wednesday.
>The zones would permit companies with large areas of land to form governments carrying the same authority as counties, including the ability to impose taxes, form school districts and courts and provide government services.
>The measure to further economic development with the “alternative form of local government” has not yet been introduced in the Legislature.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/nevada/articles/2021-02-04/nevada-bill-would-allow-tech-companies-to-create-governments
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3D PRINTED GUNS ARE FINALLY A REALITY
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Debate Thread
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can somebody link the Lew Rockwell article on the movie mighty ducks? It makes left-libertarian seethe so much I want to read it
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Ok, I've been silent about this for a while but my curiosity can handle it no more. Is the whole liberty x monarchy thing just a meme? I don't see how an ancap could ever prefer a monarchy (or even worse, an autocracy) over a democracy. Well don't get me wrong, I don't like democracies either, but how are monarchies or autocracies any better?
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Banks
Is it time to obsolete them? In the modern day we have so many financial institutions that can serve the purposes they serve better that they no longer seem necessary. They do not store wealth in hard assets anymore, they are not better than private finance at finding opportunity, they do not provide any insurance due to fractional reserve lending, they do not even issue government fiat anymore because the central banks are directly buying assets. The only purpose left is retail banking, which is just glorified accounting, and has been made obsolete with the innovation of the blockchain. Are they simply just slow and expensive middlemen?
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hk protests and their struggle against commie china
Let's cheer them on and post updates on their situation.
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How does /liberty/ go about making money?
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Random/Shitpost Thread
Listen up kiddo. We need to have a little chat. You thought you could lurk around here just because you're a cool guy and we share the same worldviews? You thought /liberty/ was open and free for everyone? That's not how it works, pal. This isn't some hippie-dippie commie shithole. Nothing in life is free besides the cheese in a mousetrap. You gotta leave a post in this thread every time you visit the board if you wanna keep the lights on over here. Yes, I know, I know, but someone had to say it. You know how the economy is these days, it's tough for everyone. Don't make it more difficult for the rest of us, we all have to carry our own weight. We all have to do our part to keep the place running. There's no room for freeloaders around here. Leave something in this thread each time you visit the board and we can keep on being friends.
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If a Biden AR-15 ban (or any gun ban for that manner) does pass through, would you comply?
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you know, despite all the talking about believing in hierarchies, non-libertarian right-wingers (especially the reactionaries) sure do care a lot about what the supposedly "inferior" people do.
I mean, why the fuck should I care if some people are degenerates? Why the shit should I spend any resource in trying to fix them or even persecute them?
In my opinion this show they have a much more egalitarian view of the world.
Honestly, I don't care. A person can be a degenerate forever or only in a certain moment or place of their life, but who cares?
The problems with current society are that the elites are degenerate and that they force degeneracy in everybody lives. There is no way to avoid it, being secure and discriminate against. This is done not only through laws but also through taxes and inflation since it deprives people of the resources to segregate from the undesirable.
But the right-wingers are egalitarian. They talk about hierarchies, and yet they cannot see themselves separating in a distinct class. They imagine living among the inferiors even in their ideal society, and therefore feel the need to fix everybody lives.
Pathetic.
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The most Austrolibertarian question you could possibly ask.
Are naked shorts equivalent to fractional reserve banking? Are they both fundamentally fraud?
Also, I recall reading a description of some country that had a 100% reserve system because any banks that were suspected of being fractional reserve would get "stress-tested" by the other banks. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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America’s Five Freest States
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Grain Elevator Operators Need to Go to Prison
Why aren't these speculating hoarders who greedily profit off of price gouging arrested?
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Is the watermark cope real?
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as you know the government always adds many taxes and laws. Very bad.
People want the State. Also very bad.
A thing that could improve any society is a constitutional law that makes it so that any law or tax one proposes is immediately applied to that person.
So, if you are a lobbist, you will find yourself subject to the regulation you propose even if it doesn't pass. Just the fact you said in an interview "we need a regulation" will be enough to subject you to that regulation. If it's a company, it's not just the company that will be subjected to the regulation, it will be all the people who guided the company towards proposing a regulation. If you are a think tank that invents regulation, all the people who worked and approved the final proposal made public in any way, shape or form will be subjected to that regulation.
It's only fair that the government would help someone who wants some rules applied in at least seeing those rules applied to him. Very fair and helpful like only the government can be, right?
If you propose a tax, it can become complicated because you may only propose taxes for third parties. In that case of course you only pay the tax if you actually enter the category you proposed the tax for. If you were generic, like the rich, a special commission will help you define what do you mean by rich. Then you will only pay if you enter the category.
Of course keeping track of who is proposing laws and taxes is not free, as they aren't correlated services, so one always pay a fair tax to finance the State so that it can fullfill their dream of seeing what they propose at least applied to them.
This is only about fairness. Very fair and just. Let's make this a reality friends.
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monarcholibertarianism thred
i dunno discuss monarchies within libertarian societies i guess
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Ruby Ridge 2.0
Anyone following the story of the NY 28 yo vet getting an entire police department sicked on him because he had a magazine with a 30-round capacity?
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Reminder that the majority of Soviet industry was created by western capitalists.
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Enoch Powell
A political figure who I think warrants more discussion on this board is Enoch Powell. Powell is relatively unheard of outside the British Isles, but he carved his name in the stone of history as one the first politicians to promote right-libertarian ideas. Powell's ideology combined British nationalism with a kind of libertarianism that was tailored to the particularities of the UK (e.g. defending the NHS). Powell was the first politician in Britain to advocate for mass privatisation, and he promoted the idea of monetarism as a means to fight the rampant inflation of the time. He supported all of this in the 1960s, back when Margaret Thatcher was almost unknown.
During the late 60s and early 70s, Powell also highlighted the threat of non-white immigration, and being Eurosceptic, strongly opposed the UK's entry into the EU.
For these reasons, I think Enoch Powell was an incredibly farsighted individual and a underrated Libertarian figure.
There is a documentary on YouTube about him called 'Odd Man Out' if you want to know more about the guy, heres a link to it:
https://youtu.be/ZITwANJuoLc
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U.S. Copyright, IP, Patents Laws and Public Domain
Basically, what are the arguments for and against them? I'm rather ignorant on this subject, and I'm curious about what different arguments there are (with citations/evidence, because otherwise it didn't happen, so to speak).
It seems to me that the issue isn't copyright law in itself*, but that it has been abused. I've also heard that anti-copyright legislation has actually helped corporations keep their IPs or something to that effect, but how can this be?
*At least in the current system and the philosophical theories behind it, but that's another discussion. This is just about the current facts and what can be done or shouldn't be done about them.
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How do we deal with big tech in ancapistan?
This is a very serious problem that I don't know if libertarians have an answer to (I'm not a statist btw, I'm an ancap too, but this is one problem that I just don't have an easy answer to). The problem is this: big tech companies are a new breed of corporations that we've never seen before. Many libertarian books were written when these companies didn't exist (or weren't anywhere near as big and powerful as they are now), so they didn't provide a solution to their existence. I know that society would work better if all aspects of it were handled by the private sector in a free market full of competition, but that's the problem with big tech, there IS no competition, and there never will be! It is LITERALLY impossible for anyone to start a new big tech company from the ground up. Even in ancapistan, I highly doubt anyone could step up to compete against the giants, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc. These companies get away with doing things that we criticize the government for doing, such as censorship and controlling information, and I'm not going to defend them just because "at least it's not the government". The only times when big tech were wacked in the head for attempting to do something heinous is, unfortunately, when the government steps in. Yes, I know big tech works hand in hand with governments, but there have been a few times when even the government has had to step its foot down and not allow these companies to do something, and that's just unfortunate, that the only leverage we (the common people) have against these giants is... the government. I'm sure that there's a solution to this that works within libertarianism, but I just can't see it. What do you think?
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do you guys consider him an austrian? he seemed libertarian leaning but not quite austrian especially on his opposition to the gold standard. yes i know i misspelled the filename
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Man Arrested for Violating Mask Mandate in Nashville
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The only true way to liberty is through seizing the means of productions
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What do you guys think about Max Stirner? Although I disagree with him economically, I think he had some pretty good ideas and I like the fact that he attempted the deconstruction of Hegelian dialectic by turning it against itself and eventually grew distant from the Young Hegelians starting to shit on them.
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Shit like this is why Libertarians are not taken seriously and I feel ashamed to call myself a libertarian.
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End of the Internet?
Klaus Schwab from WEF has already warned that a cyber pandemic would be mankind's next challenge, we also had the Cyber Polygon thing going on (for anyone living under a rock: it was a simiulation made on July 9, made by the same that made a simulation predicting a coronavirus pandemic in October 2019 (Event 201), which predicts a great cybernetic attack capable of disabling systems worldwide and take the internet as whole down) and now a little recap of some recent events:
1- Around November-December 2020 all Google services went down
2- Data breach caused by the SolarWinds software Orion (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_federal_government_data_breach)
3- The Colonial Pipelines Ransomware attack (among many other ransomware attacks which are becoming more often, I personally see this a way to taint Bitcoin's image even more and push for more regulation or outright prohibition of it)
4-over 30,000 websites went down for a day in June 8 due to some DNS failure
5- Cloudflare announced it contained the largest DDoS ever
6- Yandex DDoS attack
Among many other things, such as the weeks-long Texas blackout etc, I see all of this as a prelude for the so called "cyber pandemic" planned by the WEF, they already understood the problem with internet and want to silence and contain it, you think they will end the internet? (people speculate this is bound to happen Winter this year)
and for the fags telling this would ruin their own system: they don't care, if you think they wouldn't do this because it would take their current sytem down, you've really been obvlious to all the Great Reset talk going on by the WEF, this is, in my vision, just a step for the so called Great Reset.
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so, to me libertarianism has become some sort of religion. Well, maybe not libertarianism per se, but it's clear that God has made the world so that acquisition of material wealth and real growth requires respecting other people property, and that acquiring material wealth makes it easier to know the laws of nature which in turn once known make production of goods better and then we get more wealthy.
I can feel God in economics and in liberty.
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Darknet Libertarianism
So, I understand I'm a little late to the party, but all the Big Tech censorship has made me realize that I need to find a bunch of libertarian sites, forums, chans, blogs, and all the other various regular services that's hosted on Zeronet, I2P, Onions, Bitmessage, and Freenet.
My plan is this. Sometime back I made a webring that modeled a VT321 console (remember those computers that first replaced the card catalogs?), and some webring directories. I want to make a similar webring only focused on libertarian websites, and to see if there's any way I can mirror current libertarian content on the clearnet before it gets banned by Big Tech.
1 - I can't realistically host this and remirror as much as I can across all the different darkweb platforms currently available. I need to focus on one--maybe two. I was thinking Zeronet given its censorship resistance, ease of use, and how they seem to have a way around getting banned by ICANN what with their own DNS system (namecoin) and not being as resource-hoggish as Freenet, and an Onion website since Tor is pretty much what everyone thinks of when think Deepweb.
2 - I can realistically only mirror a fraction by myself, and given my job, only update it maybe once every three months maybe. Even then, I'd have to choose a handful of libertarian websites. I know mises.org would be a good pick, and I'm guessing they wouldn't mind the remirroring. Is there any way anyone knows of to make this easier to remirror on the technical end? Are there any websites I probably shouldn't remirror because they'd get all Randian "muh copyright" on me?
3 - Any libertarian sites already on some deepweb network that you know of that I should include? This chan has an onion address, so it's going on the list.
4 - Any other tips or thoughts others might have? I'm still unsure if I want to do this, given how shit I am at committing to projects like these.
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Should I pretend I'm a Democrat?
With all the talk about rounding up Trump supporters, James Damore's career still ruined, etc.--should I pretend I'm a rabid Biden supporter? I mean, I'm not, but if I want to avoid the gulags, that's about what I have to do, right? Should I maybe even send some token amount to the Dem party so the Deep State might ignore me? Will pretending I'm a Trump-hater give me more career success? If so, how the hell do you keep up the lie?
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Home Owners Assocation Hate thread.
ITT: rant about HOA scum.
Fuck these self absorbed wannabe autocrat nimby's and busybodies. They'll force you to use their shitty cronyist buddy contractors who use shitty building methods and shitty Chinese materials to build shit homes that fall apart in five years or less, they'll lecture you if you build a mound or channel in the ground to prevent your home from flooding, they'll try and force you to get permission in order to put a shed on your yard or make make a vegetable garden, and you can't even paint your home the way you want without the HOA pricks having a hissy fit over it and calling the cops. BUT supposedly it's 'your property'? Yet you can't do anything without them breathing down your back.
Fuck these power hungry control freak HOAfags, they should be outlawed.
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What does /liberty/ think about the property rights/standing of children, and what happens after they gain self-ownership if they aren't born with it?
Some of you think they should be protected but since protection can't be defined objectively nor granted voluntarily since you wouldn't take a childs no seriously violate the nap and we're back to having a state.
I was pretty on board with children being parents property until they "have property of their own" or "leave home",etc.
Children if they can't decide for themselves are someone elses decision and thus property, and if they aren't the parents property then they're the states.
David Reimer lost his dick as a baby through a circumcision accident and after was turned in a "girl". His parents were cool with this idea. Given the preface above and assuming theres nothing wrong with that conclusion, could the now mutilated adult claim anything from his parents, for his condition? If so, on what grounds?
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is a libertarian alliance with fascists necessary to save the west?
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Why Did Islam's Capitalistic Spirit Die?
Historically, they were on the forefront of trade, commerce, banking, etc.. Now they traditionally score low in such areas. Why? Why did their libertarian spirit get crushed?
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Why do people romanticize the USSR so much? Its only redeeming feature was how it was marginally superior to the serfdom Russia endured for centuries and which had only recently been abolished. Ultimately though it was simply swapping one manner of slavery for another. Soviet citizens typically owned next to nothing, 81% of them were poor even by their own metrics earning less than 200 rubles per household a month. If Imperial Russia didn't have the good fortune of being one of the first and most powerful oil-producing nations (a title it still clings to to this day:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_exports) the USSR would have been completely irrelevant on the world stage much like China was until very recently (when they stopped being Communists).
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Can someone shoop him to have a smug pepe hand? thanks
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2020 Election Thread
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Saint Kyle Rittenhouse
So, are we going to talk about how this guy was obviously so in the right that people are making themselves look incredibly silly trying to attack him?
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Committees
You know how Mises and Hayek have fundamental arguments that strike at the core of why socialism doesn't work, and then after that we have tons of real life examples of what they were talking about?
It feels like committees are the other way around, there are tons of real life examples of how absolutely a shit structure they are, but they're begging for a theoretical explanation as to why they often produce the worst decisions (or really even someone pointing out to the wider world that they're so terrible, there are so many better options than forming a committee, and that making a committee really should be your last ditch option). It's to the point where I'll often hear people joke, "A committee must've made that decision!" and then not only is it often the case, but there's also no blame laid at the committee's feet.
Why are committees so terrible, why aren't there more attacks against them, and why do so many organizations continue to use them?
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I really cannot reconcile the complete degeneracy brought by social media with my libertarianism.
I know all the arguments about how the State made things worse by destroying the family, divorce laws, various subsidies to women, etc but I really can't.
I also know about closed communites and such stuff, but they don't seem realistic anymore. Current technology doesn't allow anything but the rise of big States IMO.
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May/June 2020 chimpouts
Discuss.
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Why did we allow leftists to take over our party?
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I'm researching the US health care system for a video I want to make and it's the fuckin hydra of cronism. Every time I find something wrong with it, there are at least another 3 wrong things that pop up. How deep does it go and how the hell can things get this bad?
Jesus damn america, I don't even know what to tell you. Fix your shit.
Meanwhile watch this video from this awesome channel by the Free Market Medical Association
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BotRS0HDAck
and then also Bob Murphy, but it's the usual stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-wtLnxHqgM
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How can liberty effectively counter fear?
9/11: overreact, Patriot Act and TSA.
Iraq: overreact, torture and a decade in the ME.
2008: overreact, TARP and bailouts.
COVID-19: overreact, movement passports, facemasks, and bailouts.
I know the strategy of "Never let a crisis go to waste" is a classic statist strategy, but I feel like libertarians do not have a very effective counterstrategy to this. Every time libertarianism faces up against fear, fear wins, hands down, and its been consistently losing to this.
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I have this feeling that things are a lot more broken than it looks like, in particular related to how to become rich.
We know that making business with the government has always been a huge advantage, but I suspect that the disparity is becoming so big between the way government price things and normal human does, that the only way to get wealthy is to serve the government or businesses that serve the government.
At first I just had a vague sense of what it could be, but I think it may have to do with government guiding the profit part of transactions.
My gut is telling me something like: "normal people will value things you sell for a X price and you will make Y profit, but that profit will never make you wealthy because someone is making Y+9000 of profit thanks to the government, and will drive up the price of things that keeps you rich".
I know I'm reasoning by gut here, but it's like if there is a huge amount of money somewhere that came into existence due to the government and are not influencing prices of most common things consumers buy because the rich are not interested in spending money there, but also are still money that will have these characteristics:
>are in existence
>can be spent in tools, machines, services, etc for production
So, imagine Fair Business (FB) VS Crony Business (CB). They both work in the same industry but one serves the government and the other don't. Crony business will make the price of machinery, tools, services, used by both rise. This could be even more worrying with services is related to government, like obligatory consultancies and bureaucratic fees.
That's the exent of my thinking. It's just a feeling I have had for some time, trying to point it somewhere, maybe it's nothing maybe it's something, please help me.
>pic unrelated, title of the article is "what if we privatize whales too?"
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o, how to organize local bussinesman and communities to slowly become anti government and be prepared for all types of situations?I think it would need 3 major doings:1- convince people that big government sucks2- organize in a way that is at the same time safe for ordinary people, but also assceble for then.3- Make ordinary people continue using this network to expand it and be active in all situations the state trys to fuck with people
I know all about decentralized technologies today to escape the state, but I wish to apply something useful to ordinary people in local with low to none knowledge and create a network for them.I do understand that much will depend on the local cultural, political and social context , so I am proposing a brainstorm, think as if the context is like a shithole country where the state is both authoritarian and inefficient, most of the power comes from the ilusion people have of government, but government likes maintaining power by doing big shows of power on individuals.
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why do ancoms call anarcho capitalism not "real" anarchism and tell everyone that their ideology is "real" anarchism
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material wealth is overrated
we libertarians focus too much on material wealth. Take for example globalization.
The markets opened up the material wealth has increased, that's a fact.
The problem is that people want things to do to feel like part of a society. Material wealth is truly desired only when a basic need is not met, and honestly all our basic needs are basically fully met outside of healthcare, which is the only thing that can truly increase meaningfully with an increase in material wealth. Since we only think about healthcare when we fall ill, most people probably would prefer to be part of a society where we have a role than a wealthier society, as long as our basic needs are met.
I vaguely remember a Tom Woods episode in which the guest defended globalization by saying that Obama saved a company that was producing tires, by putting tariffs on tires from Mexico. This way Obama saved like 400 jobs but the cost on the people was supposedly billions in increased tires price so it would have been cheaper even to just give hundreds of thousands to the 400 workers and fire them.
Now, while this reasoning has many merits, I think it underestimate the value that people put in having a role in society. People want a role and people don't like change. People don't like to be fired and they probably prefer having less material wealth but a stable job with decent status than having to compete on rent with rich chinese immigrants or having to change job or even not having a job at all and living on welfare or even living as unemployed just on the fact that the price of goods is so low they throw basic goods at you or whatever else you can think of about the effects of globalization and more material wealth.
I'm not advocating for a top-down solution, but I think we don't think enough about this, or at least I don't know what libertarians (especially the mises-kind) have to say about this.
It's also another reason why I'm skeptical about UBI, even assuming it can work economically (which it can't).
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Motion Graphics + Cryptomemes = 1000% ROI
Q: What do you guys get when you mix cryptomemes with motion-graphics and undervalued cryptocurrencies?
A: Noah Verner, a libertarian channel which promotes cryptocurrency projects through animations.
https://youtu.be/wl5k91Sbtjs
This video speaks for itself, so if you don't want to miss more investment opportunities in the near future:
-Shoot the subscribe button.
-Drop some likes or comments.
-Donate BTC/ETH
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In anglolands, I notice the slave- I mean normal people have blue eyes, while the rich have brow eyes. Why?
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Capitalism is just meritocracy. It replaced feudalism because standing meritocratic armies supported by meritocratic merchant companies were massive and technologically advanced. The old ruling class became irrelevant in the face of armed professionals.
And them everything went to shit because 80% of people are subhuman and 1/4 of their children were also shit. Those shitkids did not die because we "advanced" society and we waste resources of those shitfucks.
Those shitfucks have kids, the rate of biological failure increases with each generation. 1/4 > 2/4 > 3/4 > white race > americans > etc This is the Mouse Utopia we already discussed about.
Abolishing feudalism and starting captalism is LITERALLY the same as giving rights to slaves. Something that jews do to destroy nations. uhmm...
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Libertarian Constitutional Monarchy/Feudalism
What does /monarchy/ think of the concept of a Libertarian Constitutional Monarchy? Think as an example the USA with its original libertarian constitution—butt replace the President with an Emperor/Empress, the State governors with Kings/Queens and typical feudalism down to the county level. Democracy could be added to this neo-feudalism by giving the subjects of a given lord the power to choose the next lord from among the current lord's children via voting nya~
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/abdl/ welcomes you
Don’t think that we wouldn’t follow you here, anons, in fact we have came here early to scout out whether 8moe was a good location for your boards, and we can confirm it is. Have this fresh OC as a welcoming gift!
t. /abdl/
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Justin Amish decides not to hold onto his congressional seat
This is somewhat suspicious. I had read somewhere that the LP wasn't keen on having Justin on the Presidential ticket because he had switched from the Republican party, which was a factor in Justin dropping out. Now he has refused to defend his congressional seat. Something is fishy, and I think it has to do with the poison that is the Libertarian Party.
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Jo Jorgensen endorses BLM
Defenders claim she's talking about "the movement, not the organization."
Is there any hope for democratic libertarianism?
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Booooooo!
Get new Material!
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Secession
I feel like secession could be used a lot more effectively by libertarians. One thing that I find very interesting is how Prince Hans Adam III used secession as a bargaining chip. “Empower the monarchy, in exchange, I will give you rights to secede.” I feel like this strategy should be copied everywhere, and there’s one in particular I’m thinking of.
There are a lot of U.S. states that have insanely high debt loads. What if we encouraged the following political strategy:
>State A has a high debt load.
>Encourage state A to REALLY ramp up its deficit (or just leave them to their doom—like California and Illlinois). Bla bla, something Keynesian multiplier, blabla, MMT yadda yadda
>Within short order, A can not make payments.
>A tries to restructure payments, it goes to the courts, of course the court says, “Uh, the state constitution requires payment,” the state has to increase tax rates in a panic.
>People leave A, tax revenues decrease precipitously despite the tax hikes. A vicious spiral downward begins.
>A argues it’s stuck. Under court order it can’t even walk away from the debt.
>Before they start saying “The federal government has to assume our debts to save us!” A petition for a different plan is submitted…
>“There’s a way around your court order. Get rid of, and then immediately redeclare A’s statehood. Because “New A” is not the same as “Old A,” then “New A” doesn’t have to assume the debts.” Of course, one DOES NOT mention the obvious thing that would happen, which is…
>The moment the statehood is abolished, and is about to be redeclared, politicians at the state and federal level begin stroking their chins, “ACTUALLY, given what just happened, I think it makes sense to redistrict A to make it more ‘democratic’ and ‘in line with the popular vote.’”
>Of course politicians at the federal level will agree, because they get to redraw the state’s boundaries and potentially get more senators for their party. You can argue whether that’s better or worse in the short term, but in the long term, there are large political bodies that have just been decentralized a bit more bois.
>Seeing this has just happened, state bond rates SPIKE overnight, causing those with deficits and already large interest payments to panic. Suddenly, it’s not just A that’s been running huge deficits that’s about to default, it’s B, C, D, E, and F.
>Loads of ridiculously large states get broken up.
>Pop champagne corks when California is the bubble that bursts.
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>coronavirus
So how fake and gay was this shit after all?
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Ancap is Naive
Anarcho-Capitalism, left leaning and Anarchist Libertarianism is just as naive and stupid as Socialism or Communism. How exactly do you intend to deal with people using the freedom they gain in your society to overthrow your way of life? How do you keep undesirables from strong-arming the economy and abusing consumers much like how we see with major sudo monopolies like Google, Amazon and most banks do today? How do you keep foreign businesses undercutting your local economy? How do you keep companies from hiring in mass foreign labor over American labor for whatever reason? To me Liberterianism really only makes logical sense when Nationalist policies are applied to it and no I don't think that's a contradiction. If you want to have a truely free market and not have it completely shat on and destroyed in an instant I think economic protectionism, scrict border security and a nationalist foreign policty are extremely important. I think this is even more abundently clear seeing the digusting Marxist/Communist/Socialist revolution being allowed to happen in the U.S. today.
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Does forcing children to be potty trained violate the NAP?
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Prepper/Survivalist General
How many of you are the self-sufficient types? I live on 40 acres and before the covid/BLM crap I was attempting to become self-sufficient. Now it is full-speed ahead.
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hi
So, how's the new board going?
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/liberty/ for the Infinity Cup 2020!
Hey /liberty/ bros,
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Somalia
Ok so, jokes aside, why not? If a bunch of us moved there with all of our valuable American money and cryptocurrencies, and buy out a ton of land, create covenants with private militaries to protect us from niggers and pirates, and start our own businesses, I'm sure we could make something out of Somalia. Their government might as well not even exist. If we take over, we could get it to dissolve on it's own, then Somalia as a state would disappear and we'd have a playing ground for libertarians.
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Ancap muzak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVyqTFUgQ78
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A bunker for the bunker
Hoppe-sama is unusable right now. In case the issues with Hoppe-sama don't get fixed, we're setting up another backup board. I'll try to make posts on here and hoppe-sama once everything's ready, but in the event that I can't check /fascist/'s bunker on anon.cafe for details on our new home.
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4 Hour Per Day Works
In 8chan's /liberty there was a good thread about the most productive length of human work. A good pasta I kept is pic related.
Around %80 of the work accomplished seems to be accomplished during these 4 hours. The rest of the day seems only to make up %20 of the work
Since then I looked into it and many names that made important and taxing brain work (Darwin, Jefferson, mathematicians etc) worked around 4 hours of disciplined work per day.
Another important thing that seemed to be was 3 hours was this between morning and noon (9-12) and one extra hour before evening (around 3-4) . But there were also some people who worked after lunch (around 1-2 pm)
So is there a truth to that in daily workplace life ? I remember some countries tried to pass laws for half days for some work lines. I am not so sure of results though.
What do you guys say ? Anyone working half days ?
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How do you help people?
The more I think about basic economics and libertarianism, the more I question the utility of charity; to the point where I feel like I have to ask a really stupid question. How do you help people? If you come across a homeless person in the street, how do you actually help them? Or, given the complexities that arises from thinking about the opportunity cost associated with such an action (the time spent helping one person in one situation could have helped many more people had you done something else with your time instead), should you even do that? Given the complex nature of human interaction, is charity really fundamentally possible?
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What do we do about the Brrrrroomer problem?
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Cryptocurrency thread
So what do you think the future of crypto holds up? With the shutdown of various paypal accounts and deplatforming of patreons, it is going to be seen as an alternative to the current monopoly of corporativists who shut down what they don't like. The main problem is that it is seen as an investment rather than a tool, which may be the reason as to why it's so volatile lately.
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This board is chock full of reactionary monarchists and unironic fascists, so lets get some real /liberty/ content on this board. All things are for all men because all men have need of them, since all men have worked in the measure of their strength to produce them. The means of production are the collective property of humanity. All is for all. Large or small, the wealth of the wealthy springs from the poverty of the poor. The needs of the individual will be taken as the starting point of political economy from now on, not gain. With this we can fail to reach communism.
Reading:
Mutual Aid
Conquest of Bread
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What does /liberty/ think of minarchists?
I think a lot of you Hoppeans are actually minarchists. Small, gated, capitalistic communities? Minarchism. Physical removal? Minarchism as well. Anarcho-capitalism is more like a life style someone could choose to live under an anarchy. You choose to either work and live like a capitalist, or you choose to live like a c*mmie and move to wherever the commies live in an anarchist world. Minarchism is the good parts of libertarianism but with small authority to protect individual liberties and private properties.
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>Biden is the nominee and Bernie is probably out
Looks like we dodged that bullet, r-right Libertybros?
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Was medieval Ireland and medieval Iceland REALLY ancap?
Weren't they more like feudalism?
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INFOGRAPHICS, WE NEED MOAR
Why are we so bad at infographics?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGlm0xYdaSc
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Women are property.
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Anyone else here strongly support austrian economics, realize it describes reality but are not a libertarian or anarchist?
I support a mostly libertarian state but strong regulations on a bunch of things.
I think austrian economics can be useful to figure out the best way to implement regulations that don't fuck up the economy and society.
I don't even agree fully with libertarian ethics and the NAP.
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U.S. """Intelligence Community"""
>The U.S. intelligence community said that Soleimani was going to attack U.S. citizens
Is this the same U.S. intelligence community that said that Assad gassed its citizens, Iraq had WMDs, failed to prevent 9/11, gave weapons to the contras, used MK Ultra to turn a mathematician into the unabomber, planned a false flag on Cuba, created a false flag in Tonkin Bay, ignored the U.S.S. Liberty, instituted regime change in Iran, propped up every Latin American dictator for the past century, etc., etc.?
Pic related, it's why the presidency and U.S. elections are completely irrelevant while the CIA still exists. If some foreign government wants to invade the U.S. and liberate us, I think I'd appreciate it.
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Why is the NYT so obviously run by the Deep State?
>
WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH RUSSIA.
>
>
>
CHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVILCHINAISEVIL
>
>
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DEMOCRATSGOODREPUBLICANSEVIL
>
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CLIMATECHANGECLIMATECHANGECLIMATECHANGE
>
IF YOU ARE HIDDEN ON THE INTERNET, YOU JUST WANT TO VIEW CHILD PORN OR BE A TERRORIST.
It's just propaganda is so thick with absolutely no subtility. And they do this day after day after day. How do people believe news organizations like the NYT?
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P: 13
Main problem is that both conservatives and libertarians don't have a punishment system in their doctrine or agenda to use against those who attack Liberty.
R: 11 / I: 3 /
P: 13
LET'S SHITPOST
LETS WIN TOGETHER TO FASCIST IN IPS BY SHITPOSTING HARD ENOUGH
R: 54 / I: 24 /
P: 13
Let's talk about the brave freedom fighters in Hong Kong.
R: 29 / I: 4 /
P: 13
This short video has convinced me that all libertarianism is wrong forever. Sorry guys.
R: 11 / I: 3 /
P: 13
jesus fuck I cannot stand people anymore. Every time something bad happens it's capitalism's fault. At this point capitalism has become synonimous for "bad thing".
And I know people don't even know what the fuck it is, I know because I also didn't know in the past.
R: 9 / I: 1 /
P: 13
Libertarian [sub]groups
What are the different libertarian groups or subset of groups you know and how /liberty/ are they actually?
R: 9 / I: 5 /
P: 13
THE DREAM
So let's say TODAY some ancap supervillains take over your country and within the course of the next few months they execute the reforms to turn it into Ancapistan. Wat do? No, seriously, what do you plan on doing afterwards? What are your most autistic scenarios and plans for your life if everything were actually great?